The Methodists and The Baptists!

[Flynmonkie]

Hi ALL!

Ok I just had to make a trip down south to my family home for a funeral. Most all of my family attends a Baptist church, but some are converted Methodists.

We have a church on our family land it is a Methodist Church, where my entire family is buried and where I am destined to go.

I asked my grandmother so what's the deal?? They all seem to eat together, plan events together, and visit eachothers church's! She said there is not any difference between the Methodists and the Baptists down south. Is this true?

So Talk to me people! What are the differences? I have no idea what the Methodists believe, but I was told they lean more toward the Arm Camp and the Baptists lean toward Calvin. But I am stuck in the middle of the two ideals. And it does seem that it is 6 of one - 1/2 dozen of the other. They all seem to get on quite nicely down there...actually when I asked another lady there whats the difference, she replied "The preachers" he he he..

 

[bigsierra]

Not all Baptists are Calvinist. They run the gamut between Armenian and Hyper-Calvinism. The thing that binds Baptists is that they believe you have to go all the way under, when being baptized. It's a great testimony to see them both getting along, in this way.

Anyway, I can't tell you much about either down south. It sounds like they are dealing with each other the way God would want us to.

 

[Flynmonkie]

Not all Baptists are Calvinist. They run the gamut between Armenian and Hyper-Calvinism. The thing that binds Baptists is that they believe you have to go all the way under, when being baptized. It's a great testimony to see them both getting along, in this way.

Anyway, I can't tell you much about either down south. It sounds like they are dealing with each other the way God would want us to.

Yes I believe so! Actually, In Lousiana, where my family is, there is no such thing as Counties, they are all called Parishes. Once in control by the Catholic church, Oh yeah, they all act pretty much the same too! At least to eachother.

You know I remembered hearing and seeing this.....the span of Arm-Calvin with Baptist. Seems that is the MOST confusing thing about Baptists. Of course this is how I was raised, but I am thinking I might have had some Methodist influence mixed in too. Someone told me that Methodist believe in sprinkling rather than total submersion. In addition, Methodist really focus in on others, not that Baptists don't, But Methodist seem to be more tolerant. But what are the true doctrine differences? Are there really any signifigant ones?

 

[bigsierra]

Methodist can/were pretty hardcore. At one point I had all of the Works of John Wesley. He was pretty intense. It's been a while since I've read his material, but his focus on "Christian Perfection" was wonderful.

I'm not sure, but I think Methodists will baptize either way. The Church of the Nazarene, which came out of the Methodist tradition, will do both anyway. Charles Wesley wrote some of the best hymns to come out of the church.

Here is a good page on the the doctrine John Wesley is most remembered for (read this one at work a while back)
Entire Sanctification

Here is a good Charles Wesley site, with hymn lyrics:
http://gbgm-umc.org/umhistory/wesley/hymns/

 

[Cright]

I am not Baptist or Methodist but visit both churchs on occasion and what I write is only from the limited amount of information I see.

Methodists have several sacraments
baptism, confirmation, communion, marriage (possibly more, it's the only's that I'm confident of)
They do baptise infants (thus the need for confirmation)
The Methodist church that I sometimes attend has pastors that dress in robes or something of the sort, like the Catholic priests wear.

The Baptist church that I sometimes visit is pretty fundamentalist.
They only believe that Jesus (God) commanded two sacraments.. and that is to be baptised (by submersion) as someone at or beyond the age of reason (different for every person, but must be able to understand and accept Christ first)
and communion.

Marriage is something that you make a personal choice.. your not commanded so (as far as I know) it's not a sacrament.
The pastor will usually wear a suit, regualar clothing.

Those are the main differences that I see... but I'm sure their are more.

Hope that helps.
C

 

[Texas Lynn]

There are liberals and conservatives in both bodies, but liberals dominate methodism and conservatives dominate the SBC (Southern Baptist Convention).

Baptists are more free form in their worship and Methodists, like other Mainline Protestant churches, have more structured services. Methodist clergy wear robes and collars sometimes, but Baptist clergy generally wear only suits. Methodists ordain women clergy. Baptists are generally male clergy only, but some more liberal Baptist churches have ordained women. Baptist churches have independence; Methodists are an ecclesiastical body like Episcopals and Catholics, and have Bishops.

 

[Bulldog]

Hi ALL!

Ok I just had to make a trip down south to my family home for a funeral. Most all of my family attends a Baptist church, but some are converted Methodists.

We have a church on our family land it is a Methodist Church, where my entire family is buried and where I am destined to go.

I asked my grandmother so what's the deal?? They all seem to eat together, plan events together, and visit eachothers church's! She said there is not any difference between the Methodists and the Baptists down south. Is this true?

So Talk to me people! What are the differences? I have no idea what the Methodists believe, but I was told they lean more toward the Arm Camp and the Baptists lean toward Calvin. But I am stuck in the middle of the two ideals. And it does seem that it is 6 of one - 1/2 dozen of the other. They all seem to get on quite nicely down there...actually when I asked another lady there whats the difference, she replied "The preachers" he he he..

The Methodist church comes off Methodism, founded by John Wesley, so it is definatly Arminian in Theology. Baptists can range from Arminian to Hyper-Calvinist:

Southern/American Baptist= half-full Calvinist
Reformed Baptist= Calvinist
Primitive Baptist= Hyper-Calvinist
Free Will Baptist= Arminian

Methodist are also more traditional than Baptists, because Baptists are Anabaptists. I alsp believe that Methodist teach "consubstination" but Baptists just teach Communion as symbolic.

 

[dsdumpling]

I guess because my Methodist church is so small and conservative, I don't know or have been taught a lot of our doctrine. Are you all taught this much in your church or do you study it on your own? To my knowledge Bulldog, Methodists believe the Communion is symbolic as it was when Jesus gave it to His disciples.

 

[dsdumpling]

BTW, if you all think about it, pray for the Methodist General Conference going on right now. They will be deciding on same sex marriages and gay ordination. If those two things are passed I will be looking elsewhere for a church, probably a non-denom.

 

[countrymousenc]

Having been both (at different times in my life), let me take a stab at this:

1. Methodists recognize 2 sacraments: baptism and holy communion.

2. Methodists do believe that, in some sense, ++

 

[countrymousenc]

Sorry! Having keyboard problems.

Having been both (at different times in my life), let me take a stab at this:

1. Methodists recognize 2 sacraments: baptism and holy communion. Baptists do not believe that either of these is means of grace. For Baptists, only the faith of the believer is a means of grace, and the Lord's Supper is strictly a memorial act.

2. Methodists believe that, in some sense, the bread and wine do become the body and blood of Christ. Baptists believe that the bread and wine are only symbolic.

3. Methodists baptize infant children of their church members; Baptists only baptize those who confess faith for themselves.

4. Methodist worship used to be more formal (liturgical), but there are many Methodist churches nowadays that are no more formal than Baptist ones.

Other differences are much more subtle, and don't really amount to much.

 

[bigsierra]

Methodist believe communion is symbolic only:

As evident through the information presented, subtle differences exist between the Catholic religion and the Methodist religion. These variations, however, have developed over time and are based more on customs and traditions than on belief. It is true that Catholics believe in the transubstantiation while Methodists do not but it is important to remember the common fundamental belief in Jesus Christ. The hierarchy of the two Churches also contrast each other but this has no effect on the basic beliefs of either religion. Many times people want to believe that theses religions are vastly different when in actuality they are quite similar. People from the different Churches should be drawn together by their similarity and the common fundamental belief instead of letting differences based on custom and tradition set them apart.

http://129.74.54.81/rm/class/231/paper/fulton.html

 

[eldermike]

The main difference is in our foundational doctrines. Baptists hold only scripture as athority. Methodists hold the quadrilateral" – scripture/tradition/reason/experience.
I have many Methodists friends, most of them conservatives and they are just now learning about the beginings of liberalization of this mainline church. I pray that they stay in the church because leaving would only stand the quadrilateral on it's head - experience/reason/tradition/selected scripture.

This is my opinion, it's not meant as an attack, I am praying for this mainline church.

Eldermike

 

[dsdumpling]

This is from the UMC's website:

United Methodists, along with other Christian traditions, have tried to provide clear and faithful interpretations of Christ’s presence in the Holy Meal. Our tradition asserts the real, personal, living presence of Jesus Christ. For United Methodists, the Lord’s Supper is anchored in the life of the historical Jesus of Nazareth, but is not primarily a remembrance or memorial. We do not embrace the medieval doctrine of transubstantiation, though we do believe that the elements are essential tangible means through which God works. We understand the divine presence in temporal and relational terms. In the Holy Meal of the church, the past, present, and future of the living Christ come together by the power of the Holy Spirit so that we may receive and embody Jesus Christ as God’s saving gift for the whole world.

http://www.gbod.org/legislation/hcfinal2.doc

 

[Rilian]

Wesley actually took a very high view of the Eucharist in relation to how it was regarded by other elements of the Church of England at the time. I seem to recall he also advocated frequent communion, at least once a week if not more.

 

[dsdumpling]

Rilian, you're right about that. I don't know how often the other Methodist churches receives communion, mine does it once a month.

 

[ChiRho]

The main difference is in our foundational doctrines. Baptists hold only scripture as athority. Methodists hold the quadrilateral" – scripture/tradition/reason/experience.
I have many Methodists friends, most of them conservatives and they are just now learning about the beginings of liberalization of this mainline church. I pray that they stay in the church because leaving would only stand the quadrilateral on it's head - experience/reason/tradition/selected scripture.

This is my opinion, it's not meant as an attack, I am praying for this mainline church.

Eldermike

eldermike,

When you ask your methodist friends, how exactly, they determine which of the four (reason, selected Scripture, tradition, experience) to use when two or more are in conflict with each other, how do they respond? If one believes in more than one source of authority, then one really believes in self, as the ultimate authority. This is a frightening belief, and one of eventual hopelessness. I pray for your Methodist friends, that God may call them to the truth.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

 

[Blackhawk]

The Baptist church that I sometimes visit is pretty fundamentalist.
They only believe that Jesus (God) commanded two sacraments.. and that is to be baptised (by submersion) as someone at or beyond the age of reason (different for every person, but must be able to understand and accept Christ first)
and communion.

Marriage is something that you make a personal choice.. your not commanded so (as far as I know) it's not a sacrament.
The pastor will usually wear a suit, regualar clothing.

Those are the main differences that I see... but I'm sure their are more.

Hope that helps.
C

Actually most Baptists if not all do nothave any sacraments. I am a member of the SBC. We have 2 ordinances which have been commanded by God. Baptism and Communion. They are not sacraments. For example we (as a whole) do not believe in Christ's presence in the bread and wine thus communion is not a sacrament.

Here are the six beliefsth and practices that define baptists.

1. Believer's baptism through submersion
2. Freedom of religion
3. Priesthood of the believer
4. Autonomy of the local church/voluntary church membership
5. Evangelism/Missions are very important
6. High view of the Authority of scripture.- This last one really sets up the others.

I think the word freedom sums up Baptists very well. Baptists believe that the local church and individual Christians should be more free than not. It is not that we think that one should throw out all tradition etc. but that we should not be burdened by it. That tradition, the church fathers, and the church itself should not force someone to believe in one way or another. That one should be free to believe and worship in the way that they believe that God desires through close study of the Bible and by practicing spiritual disciplines etc..

The six reasons are not my opinion. They are what scholars have said typify Baptists. The last paragraph is the main reason why I am a baptist.

 

[Flynmonkie]

The main difference is in our foundational doctrines. Baptists hold only scripture as athority. Methodists hold the quadrilateral" – scripture/tradition/reason/experience.
I have many Methodists friends, most of them conservatives and they are just now learning about the beginings of liberalization of this mainline church. I pray that they stay in the church because leaving would only stand the quadrilateral on it's head - experience/reason/tradition/selected scripture.

This is my opinion, it's not meant as an attack, I am praying for this mainline church.

Eldermike

Hi ElderMike!!

I am not sure about the quadrilateral, and I have a feeling down there that they are more like the fundemental Baptists. Actually, most never even heard of Calvin, or anyone else for that matter. (In fact, even here in KC, some of the things that are discussed regarding the reformation people have never even heard of!)

They are not too hip on the "Librilizations" that are happening now, and do not seem to hold dear to that area. (nor do I) In fact, the little church has a "visiting" minister, either Baptist or Methodist. I am going to check into this more. But I have to agree with countrymousenc, these churches seem the same. I still feel I lean more toward the Baptist side of things.

I thought Weslyean was Charismatic? I thought in the Lutheren churches Wels were more Charismatic?

I don't see alot of that there either.

 

[Rilian]

Rilian, you're right about that. I don't know how often the other Methodist churches receives communion, mine does it once a month.

Once a month I think is the norm. Methodism underwent a number of changes in America just given the nature of the situation here. Asbury and Coke were probably as instrumental in shaping American Methodism, if not more, than Wesley himself. Having bishops for instance was one thing Wesley didn't advocate.

My understanding of the Quadlilateral was that primacy was always given to scripture, at least in the Wesleyan understanding, and that the other "legs" are the tools used to discern how to apply the teachings of scripture to the life of the church. Deviations from traditional Christianity within United Methodism I don't think can really be said to be caused by this view, I think they have more to do with the same set of issues that have caused problems for all of the mainline denoms.