the Mandela Effect...

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JulieB67 said:

I've heard about this phenomenon. But I've been going to a website for years that has a breakdown study of the KJV and it says candlesticks in the verses and the breakdown. Are you suggesting that along with the KJV bibles that anyone that has done studies or breakdowns -their work is also being changed? The study also breaks down words to the Hebrew/Greek as well. It just seems impossible for that to be the case. No offense to anyone here. I'm just trying to wade in the waters into this subject.

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I’m with you, Julie. It seems impossible. In fact, it is impossible - and yet, there it is. Absolutely impossible things are happening.

There are a lot of very imaginative theories being talked about, as the Affected people try to wrestle with what they’re seeing. Some of the theories are science-based, some are imaginative but whacky, some are based in Bible prophecy. I’m in that last camp, although at this point the only thing I can do is put my trust in the Lord.

I have a list of 12 possible explanations for what’s going on, but it wasn’t very well received on this forum. I’ll post it again if you’re interested.

Howard1955 said:

I’ll post it again if you’re interested.

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Yes, if you don't mind.

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You are deleting all your posts. So I'll delete mine.

I've wasted time here.

I’m done with trying to have a sensible conversation on this forum.

Adios.

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I don't believe in this but I'm also don't want to offend anyone that does. But the mind can play tricks I think we all know that.

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I indeed think there are instances of a mind being tricked, in fact a lot of instances, many times. I have had the perception of things in the past having been different than they are known to be, but I don't just believe it, it still is a way the mind has been tricked. So I admit that right off. Yet it is far more interesting when great numbers of people have the same experience of something very specific, and there really is that. So as theory of strings which is explaining things in physics so much better than anything actually requires a good number of further dimensions, some dimension further than what we in fact perceive is a possibility, while most dimensions for the theory are wound up in tiny circles on a quantum scale far smaller than that for atoms. But any dimension wound up but on a bit larger scale might allow variations to our experiences. But could this go further on a large scale? How far? Would it go so far a distance that where some are saved in our reality they are not saved in another reality? I really do not see that would be the case, the logic of that would interfere with personal responsibility. I am sure if there actually would be any variation of reality that we are actually able to perceived, it would still be very very small. If there was.

A personal instance of such a Mandela effect I perceived, which can still be counted as the mind being tricked, just happened to me. If it is only me experiencing it that would only have that explained that way. If I get responses of several others maybe it is not. I saw a little while ago before I started a post here that there was a response recently in this thread, not just the last post being March 7 of this year. But it was last at March 7 of this year when I started the post, and a more recent post before this one is not shown to have ever happened. So is that just my mind playing tricks on me, did someone else notice the same thing?

I admit all such things can be deception to our minds. But maybe there is something more with a number who say they perceive the same thing. I would not claim it is the explanation, and it does not seem possible, but small circled dimensions further than those we actually perceive could be such explanation for it. For all that I know.

FredVB said:

I saw a little while ago before I started a post here that there was a response recently in this thread, not just the last post being March 7 of this year. But it was last at March 7 of this year when I started the post, and a more recent post before this one is not shown to have ever happened. So is that just my mind playing tricks on me, did someone else notice the same thing?

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They were there. HopeInJesusOnly made a post declaring that Christianity was false and two people responded (quoting his post), one asking why he had the faith designation of "Christian" if he thought that, and the other was someone criticizing HopeInJesusOnly's argument.

I am 99% certain that the answer is quite simple: these posts were simply deleted by moderators. This subforum is "Christians Only" so someone coming in and making a post like that would be against the rules, so presumably this was just the moderators deleting a rule-breaking post along with the other posts that quoted it.

JSRG said:

They were there. HopeInJesusOnly made a post declaring that Christianity was false and two people responded (quoting his post), one asking why he had the faith designation of "Christian" if he thought that, and the other was someone criticizing HopeInJesusOnly's argument.

I am 99% certain that the answer is quite simple: these posts were simply deleted by moderators. This subforum is "Christians Only" so someone coming in and making a post like that would be against the rules, so presumably this was just the moderators deleting a rule-breaking post along with the other posts that quoted it.

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Thanks for letting me know. I was really quite sure I saw that it was posted in more recently though I did not look at the recent posts, and was interested in looking at the thread and posting in it. I did not want this thread to be an actual case of a Mandela effect for me. I am not just crazy then because I noticed this, and variation in a small circular dimension does not explain it well, although still small circular dimensions are a real possibility for all we know, as the string theory that explains things better strongly suggests that, as the string theory will not work without it. That would make only small variation possible then.

The Parson said:

Dave, I'm not sure I am aiming to convince or just reason the matter out. After all, the truth shall set you free, right?

One day while preaching a sermon, I asked everyone to quote the Lord's model prayer with me. As I began, I could hear the 100 plus people in the congregation quoting it from their hearts. Mind you, I'm a King James preacher and have been so for almost 30 years. I have hidden quite a bit of God's word in my heart and quite often preach, quoting the scripture without looking down at the familiar passages in my hand. These people; each and every one came to the part where it says/said "thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven". Did I mention each and every one of them?

Yet that passage now reads: "Mt:6:10:Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. (KJV)"

Interesting how one word might be remembered by 100 plus people as ON earth, and not IN earth.

Is this a good starting point?

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Just want to add - I am 47 years old. From about age 4 to about age 16 my grandmother and I would say the Lord's Prayer together every night- which she learned and then had me learn from her 4 generations old King James Version Bible. I know it by heart as do millions of people. I have found a few things that have been changed. This is the Lord's prayer that we read, learned, remembered from her Bible:


Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name, Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, ON earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our TRESSPASSES AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESPASS AGAINST US.
And lead us not into temptation but, deliver us from evil. For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, FOREVER AND EVER, AMEN.

This is word for word. If I have used all CAPS - these are the things you can check in your own Bible and see that changes have been made. No matter what version or year. I have checked every Bible I own and shown other people. I have had people write down the Lord's prayer before opening their Bible - to compare what they remember to what (sometimes very old) Bibles say now. That would be a whole lot of people remembering the same wrong words. You can also find the Lord's prayer online - in many different versions AND IN THE ORIGINAL AND CORRECT ONE that I recite every day for over 40 years.

1Luv said:

Just want to add - I am 47 years old. From about age 4 to about age 16 my grandmother and I would say the Lord's Prayer together every night- which she learned and then had me learn from her 4 generations old King James Version Bible. I know it by heart as do millions of people. I have found a few things that have been changed. This is the Lord's prayer that we read, learned, remembered from her Bible:

Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name, Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, ON earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our TRESSPASSES AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESPASS AGAINST US.
And lead us not into temptation but, deliver us from evil. For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, FOREVER AND EVER, AMEN.

This is word for word. If I have used all CAPS - these are the things you can check in your own Bible and see that changes have been made. No matter what version or year. I have checked every Bible I own and shown other people. I have had people write down the Lord's prayer before opening their Bible - to compare what they remember to what (sometimes very old) Bibles say now. That would be a whole lot of people remembering the same wrong words. You can also find the Lord's prayer online - in many different versions AND IN THE ORIGINAL AND CORRECT ONE that I recite every day for over 40 years.

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That would be how it used to be in Luke 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven. 11:3 Give us this day our daily bread. 11:4 And forgive us our trespasses; as we forgive those that trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. for thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory forever. Amen. (KJV)

The only difference in the one in Luke 11, and Matthew 6 was "debts" in Matthew, and "trespasses" in Luke.

Here you go 1Luv... I've only begun to scratch the surface of the evidence residue on this one...

Did you know : "for thine is the kingdom the power and the glory" is actually an add on in the KJV and always was. It's incorrect and not in the original manuscripts. It should be italicized or otherwise denoted. It's one of a few foibles known but not widely taught, coming from the KJV.

Dave G. said:

Did you know : "for thine is the kingdom the power and the glory" is actually an add on in the KJV and always was. It's incorrect and not in the original manuscripts. It should be italicized or otherwise denoted. It's one of a few foibles known but not widely taught, coming from the KJV.

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I know it's not found in the Alexandrian texts. It was found in the Antiochian (TR) text. So that would be a non argument type thingy Dave.

Lulav said:

As I said, only one benefits from this.

What the serpent used was not what you posted:

3 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”​

It wasn't just putting the doubt in her mind:

2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”​

Barring the fact the Eve herself actually added to his word by saying this:"nor shall you touch it" we find the adversary counters what God actually did say with this:

4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”​

Let's go back to chapter 2 and see what God actually said, to Adam, before Eve.

15 Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;
17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

So basically

God said (actually commanded): 'If you eat of the tree of the K of G&E you will surely die'
Eve says:' If you eat it or touch it you will surely die'
Serpent says:' You will NOT surely die'



So it looks to me that the serpent did actually change Gods word, the very first commandment he got them to break because he changed what God said.

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well done. So now. As we ourselves read Gods word. We have the serpent in our ear. Causing man to fall which reveals why God is angry with Satan and passionate for us. He does not want us to die

woe to the world. For offenses must come. But wow to “him who causes the offense.”

I firmly believe Jesus is speaking of the enemy here. Not mankind. And this is exactly why Jesus is passionate to save us

The Parson said:

I know it's not found in the Alexandrian texts. It was found in the Antiochian (TR) text. So that would be a non argument type thingy Dave.

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Good to know. I have not researched that direction but it is worthy of it. Thanks.

Dave G. said:

Did you know : "for thine is the kingdom the power and the glory" is actually an add on in the KJV and always was. It's incorrect and not in the original manuscripts. It should be italicized or otherwise denoted. It's one of a few foibles known but not widely taught, coming from the KJV.

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There are additions found in some new testament manuscripts not found in others, in many cases. But all of the manuscripts are still new testament manuscripts, and are taken into account in translations of the Bible, but now often with notes to the new testament texts to show which manuscripts have it differently. All the Greek manuscript to English interline new testament books will show what is distinct in which manuscripts those are distinct in. While in some cases there were additions to texts, there may have been cases where text was left out, which had been in the original writing. So there is no good way to second guess which was the case.

Gary987 said:

well done. So now. As we ourselves read Gods word. We have the serpent in our ear. Causing man to fall which reveals why God is angry with Satan and passionate for us. He does not want us to die

woe to the world. For offenses must come. But wow to “him who causes the offense.”

I firmly believe Jesus is speaking of the enemy here. Not mankind. And this is exactly why Jesus is passionate to save us

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The enemy wants to undermine God's will with subverting the people from the good of God's will. But the enemy does not have to do all the work in accomplishing that. There is so much willingness among people to be self-willed and not including God in living among others and going along with their ways. God meant us for uniquely other things that we should be discerning for, we can repent from going contrary to God. The enemy cannot stop us from that. But those who will not repent will cause offense.