THE LOST SHEEP

WailingWall · Jan 26, 2018

listed said:
Again what commandments? The word "my" is possessive. What commandments are Jesus saying to keep?

In your defense of you making Gods law void you asked above question a few times.

MATT.19 [16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, GOOD MASTER, WHAT GOOD THING SHALL I DO, THAT I MAY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE?[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

As you can see, the commandments Jesus speaks of are the 10 commandments

bbbbbbb · Jan 27, 2018

WailingWall said:
Not all 613. Many were fulfilled by Christ. There are 1,050 commands in the New Testament for Christians to obey. Due to repetitions we can classify them under 69 headings. Do you obey all 69?

Absolutely. Perfectly, I might add. God's grace is sufficient and I am not bound under any law, human or divine, to merit His grace and favor.

bbbbbbb · Jan 27, 2018

WailingWall said:
In your defense of you making Gods law void you asked above question a few times.

MATT.19 [16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, GOOD MASTER, WHAT GOOD THING SHALL I DO, THAT I MAY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE?[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

As you can see, the commandments Jesus speaks of are the 10 commandments

Not really. He did not list all ten, so if you want to limit the commandments, then there were, at most, seven or eight. OTOH, if you want to open it up to ten, there is no reason not to think He was merely listing just a few of all 613.

listed · Jan 28, 2018

bbbbbbb said:
Thank you for providing the detailed response which I was too lazy to do. It was quite excellent.

You're welcome. All to often providing details falls on deaf ears. Mostly what I see here is evangelizing Christians.

listed · Jan 28, 2018

WailingWall said:
Not all 613. Many were fulfilled by Christ. There are 1,050 commands in the New Testament for Christians to obey. Due to repetitions we can classify them under 69 headings. Do you obey all 69?

Yes the covenant was completely fulfilled by Jesus meaning all the prophesies and law. You've been quoted Luke 24:44 and disregard it.

EastCoastRemnant · Feb 2, 2018

listed said:
Here you accuse people of sin when the covenant given to Israel has been replaced with a covenant not including the 4th commandment or the rest of the law for that matter.

Can you please explain how you reason the Decalogue is not part of the new covenant? If sin is the transgression of the Law, and you contend that the Law is no longer relevent, then why do we need a Saviour if we are now not sinners? Why did Jesus need to die for us if the Law could just be taken away, thereby eliminating sin?

WailingWall · Feb 3, 2018

EastCoastRemnant said:
Can you please explain how you reason the Decalogue is not part of the new covenant? If sin is the transgression of the Law, and you contend that the Law is no longer relevent, then why do we need a Saviour if we are now not sinners? Why did Jesus need to die for us if the Law could just be taken away, thereby eliminating sin?

A question that cannot be answered

listed · Feb 4, 2018

EastCoastRemnant said:
Can you please explain how you reason the Decalogue is not part of the new covenant? If sin is the transgression of the Law, and you contend that the Law is no longer relevent, then why do we need a Saviour if we are now not sinners? Why did Jesus need to die for us if the Law could just be taken away, thereby eliminating sin?

Jeremiah 31:31-33 with Luke 22:20 alone are reason and proof enough. Other great passages are: Luke 16:16; John 1:17; Romans 10:4 and Galatians 3:19. I also like 1 Timothy 1:9 which states the law isn't for the righteous. If you're a Christian you posses the kind of righteousness God requires by declaration. See Romans 4. That righteousness can't be acquired by the law.

Since the law was before the law (Romans 5:13), sin wasn't done away with. Genesis 3:15 has no need of the law. The law came because of sin. The law didn't invent sin. Galatians 3:19

listed · Feb 4, 2018

WailingWall said:
A question that cannot be answered

Just did

EastCoastRemnant · Feb 4, 2018

listed said:
The law came because of sin.

It's interesting that the only Law you don't recognize or keep is the one instituted before sin. Why do you obey the 9 Laws that were codified after sin but not the 1 that was Sanctified before sin?

Btw, I think we all know that the other 9 such as not having other things above God and not killing and not coveting were in place before this world was conceived. We know this because Lucifer coveted God's power and by doing so, sinned. You think that the Decalogue was only for the Jews and only for a short period of time when the fact of the matter is self evident that shows it has always been and will always be.

EastCoastRemnant · Feb 4, 2018

listed said:
Just did

Not really... I know you think you did though so you get an "A" for effort.

listed · Feb 4, 2018

EastCoastRemnant said:
It's interesting that the only Law you don't recognize or keep is the one instituted before sin. Why do you obey the 9 Laws that were codified after sin but not the 1 that was Sanctified before sin?

Btw, I think we all know that the other 9 such as not having other things above God and not killing and not coveting were in place before this world was conceived. We know this because Lucifer coveted God's power and by doing so, sinned. You think that the Decalogue was only for the Jews and only for a short period of time when the fact of the matter is self evident that shows it has always been and will always be.

It's interesting to me that law wasn't established as you claim. That law and concept doesn't appear until Exodus. Moses says:

The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

That means it didn't exist prior to Exodus.

listed · Feb 4, 2018

EastCoastRemnant said:
Not really... I know you think you did though so you get an "A" for effort.

Ah shucks but thanks just the same.

EastCoastRemnant · Feb 4, 2018

listed said:
It's interesting to me that law wasn't established as you claim. That law and concept doesn't appear until Exodus. Moses says:

The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

That means it didn't exist prior to Exodus.

So you don't believe Genesis when it says that God rested on the 7th day and Sanctified it (set it apart for Holy use) and Hallowed it (made it Holy)? The same event that Exodus 8:11 references as the basis for the 4th Commandment?

If you don't think the precepts of the Decalogue were in place before the fall, what Law did Lucifer break to be cast from Heaven?

listed · Feb 5, 2018

EastCoastRemnant said:
So you don't believe Genesis when it says that God rested on the 7th day and Sanctified it (set it apart for Holy use) and Hallowed it (made it Holy)? The same event that Exodus 8:11 references as the basis for the 4th Commandment?

If you don't think the precepts of the Decalogue were in place before the fall, what Law did Lucifer break to be cast from Heaven?

Sure I believe God rested on the 7th day. Your issue is that it was the sabbath. Unfortunately for your argument the sabbath appears no where until the exodus from Egypt. Then it's only commanded for Israel giving cause only related to Israel. See Deuteronomy 5:15. More cause is found in Exodus 31:13, 17. The fact that the Exodus version of the stone tablets mentions creation doesn't prove the sabbath was instituted then. There's no mention of the sabbath found prior to Exodus 16.

Deuteronomy 5:3 says very clearly the law (ten commandments) didn't exist prior to Sinai. Your argument that our enemy violated them prior to Adam is false.

EastCoastRemnant · Feb 5, 2018

listed said:
There's no mention of the sabbath found prior to Exodus 16.

The Law had not been given in Exodus 16, yet the Sabbath Commandment was already in effect? How is that? Also, what statutes, laws and commandments did Abraham keep to be considered faithful by God?
Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Deuteronomy 5:3 says very clearly the law (ten commandments) didn't exist prior to Sinai.

What that verse says is that the covenant that was spoken at Sinai had not been previously made. The covenant God made with Abraham promising a Deliverer was the same promise given to Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:15. There is a difference between a promise given and a covenant made.

Your argument that our enemy violated them prior to Adam is false.

What Laws did Lucifer violate then? You acknowledge that he sinned, I assume. What constituted his sin?

listed · Feb 8, 2018

EastCoastRemnant said:
The Law had not been given in Exodus 16, yet the Sabbath Commandment was already in effect? How is that? Also, what statutes, laws and commandments did Abraham keep to be considered faithful by God?
Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

What that verse says is that the covenant that was spoken at Sinai had not been previously made. The covenant God made with Abraham promising a Deliverer was the same promise given to Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:15. There is a difference between a promise given and a covenant made.

What Laws did Lucifer violate then? You acknowledge that he sinned, I assume. What constituted his sin?

You need to read the context of Exodus 16. No where does it say or imply the sabbath existed prior to the test. No where does Scripture say anyone previously kept the sabbath. It wasn't mentioned to Noah or Abraham.

Genesis 26:5 isn't proof Abraham kept the law (ten commandments) because of Deuteronomy 5:3. Both can't be a reference to the ten commandments.

The law didn't invent sin. The law came because of sin. Your position is sin is always and only violation of the ten commandments. This can't be true because sin was before the law.

WailingWall · Feb 9, 2018

WailingWall said:
Oh but they are

MATTHEW 15 [24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the LOST SHEEP of the house of Israel.

Jesus said He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel

JOHN 10 [14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. [15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. [16] And OTHER SHEEP I HAVE, WHICH ARE NOT OF THIS FOLD: Them also i must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

OTHER SHEEP I HAVE.....These “other sheep” are the gentile believers

ISAIAH 56 [1] Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for MY SALVATION IS NEAR to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. [2] Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. [3] Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. [4] For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; [5] Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. [6] Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, EVERY ONE THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; [7] Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. [8] The Lord God which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, YET WILL I GATHER OTHERS TO HIM, beside those that are gathered unto him.

YET WILL I GATHER OTHERS. Yes, the “others” are the gentiles. As plain as the nose on my face, these “others” are keeping Gods sabbath day. They have taken hold of His covenant. No way around it. So, have “many” come in the name of Jesus and decieved many as the bible said would happen? I reckon so. You must be keeping the sabbath in order to be saved to the kingdom. And not only the sabbath, but you must observe to keep all ten.

PSALM 132 [12] IF THY CHILDREN WILL KEEP MY COVENANT AND MY TESTIMONY that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore.[13] For the Lord hath chosen zion; he hath desired it for his habitation. [14] THIS IS MY REST FOR EVER: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

Once again found in the scriptures. Who are the children that will joining Jesus in His rest? They who keep the covenant {ten commandments} and the testimony {of Jesus}

REV.12 [16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.

Yup. Those guys

Gentile "others" Gentile "strangers"

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

We were once strangers from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. BUT NOW in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; FOR MINE HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED AN HOUSE OF PRAYER FOR ALL PEOPLE.

Even them (us gentile strangers mentioned in Ephes.2) will He bring to His holy mountain, if we should take hold of His sabbath covenant. Jesus will bring us to the 1000yr period of rest. His house will be a house of prayer for ALL people....Not just the house of Israel

ISAIAH 14 [1] For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet CHOOSE ISRAEL, AND SET THEM IN THEIR OWN LAND: AND THE STRANGERS SHALL BE JOINED WITH THEM, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob. [2] And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors. [3] And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve, [4] That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! [5] The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. [6] He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. [7] THE WHOLE EARTH IS AT REST, AND IS QUIET: THEY BREAK FORTH INTO SINGING.

HARK! · Feb 10, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Agreed this is partly true and partly false. It might help if you define what the Sinai Covenant means to you because this is the foundation and the premise of your whole argument.

So would you mind explaining what Sinai Covenant means to you?

Actually the foundation and premise of his argument assumes that there is only one perpetual covenant. This faulty premise is a crucial flaw, in the first word, right out of the gate.

Shimshon said:
The perpetual covenant is not the Sinai covenant. It's the new covenant promised from the foundation of the world. The covenant NOT LIKE the one made with our ancestors at Sinai.

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