The Lord's Supper?

[ByTheSpirit]

Couple questions about how you observe the Lord's Supper in a home church environment.

I have a portable communion set with 6 glass cups, a small juice container, and small sealable dish for wafers. I have been utilizing this thus far, but as I read the scriptures it seems those people were eating full blown meals, not a single small wafer and ounce sized cup of juice.

Is the Lord's Supper just any meal that a fellowship of Christian's eat together in Jesus' name? Or do you actually utilize wafers and juice?

Also what is your position on allowing small children in partaking?

Thank you!!!

 

[1watchman]

Hello friend. Don't speculate about God's testimony, or listen to what the various sects are doing! Read all the Word of God and bring it all together to see what God has provided. I recommend you visit the various pages on the site: biblecounsel.net to see what God intends for His testimony in the world. One can ask Bible questions there, and will get scriptural answers. Look up always!

 

[1watchman]

Note that the Apostle Paul was speaking against those who came to eat and drink, and some even getting drunk. That was not the Lord's supper, but man's supper, as Paul says. Certainly, the Lord's supper is for true "born again" believers --not anybody who says they believe in God.

 

[Stefos]

Couple questions about how you observe the Lord's Supper in a home church environment.

I have a portable communion set with 6 glass cups, a small juice container, and small sealable dish for wafers. I have been utilizing this thus far, but as I read the scriptures it seems those people were eating full blown meals, not a single small wafer and ounce sized cup of juice.

Is the Lord's Supper just any meal that a fellowship of Christian's eat together in Jesus' name? Or do you actually utilize wafers and juice?

Also what is your position on allowing small children in partaking?

Thank you!!!

You should read scripture & see what it says.

NO ONE is doing it anymore!
It seems they've heaped up teachers to tickle their ears.

The New Testament version of "Communion" was first done as part of the Passover meal by Jesus & the 12!
Jesus took the cup & the bread....It would immediately appear that this was part of the Passover Seder, per se.

When Paul was writing, the believers were gathering together under the Headship of Christ in Corinthians & the rich got drunk while the poor starved & were treated wrongly...The poor were probably a mix of poor & slaves, therefore the arrogance by the rich.

So, Final word:
The bread & wine were, scripturally speaking, ALWAYS part of a meal.

Now, Does that mean it's a sin to not have a meal?
In my opinion, no.

You have to remember that this isn't Roman Catholic communion where the wafer & wine become the literal, as Catholics believe, body & blood of Jesus. This literal body & blood understanding is called transubstantiation & is strictly a pagan lift, non of the early believers believed this doctrine.
There is no proof for transubstantiation.

So, there you have it my friend.
Take the Lord's body & blood during a meal with other believers when possible & if not possible, do it with 2-3...if not still possible, do it yourself.

Stefos.....I too think I have the spirit of God

 

[ByTheSpirit]

You should read scripture & see what it says.

NO ONE is doing it anymore!
It seems they've heaped up teachers to tickle their ears.

The New Testament version of "Communion" was first done as part of the Passover meal by Jesus & the 12!
Jesus took the cup & the bread....It would immediately appear that this was part of the Passover Seder, per se.

When Paul was writing, the believers were gathering together under the Headship of Christ in Corinthians & the rich got drunk while the poor starved & were treated wrongly...The poor were probably a mix of poor & slaves, therefore the arrogance by the rich.

So, Final word:
The bread & wine were, scripturally speaking, ALWAYS part of a meal.

Now, Does that mean it's a sin to not have a meal?
In my opinion, no.

You have to remember that this isn't Roman Catholic communion where the wafer & wine become the literal, as Catholics believe, body & blood of Jesus. This literal body & blood understanding is called transubstantiation & is strictly a pagan lift, non of the early believers believed this doctrine.
There is no proof for transubstantiation.

So, there you have it my friend.
Take the Lord's body & blood during a meal with other believers when possible & if not possible, do it with 2-3...if not still possible, do it yourself.

Stefos.....I too think I have the spirit of God

you didn't answer my questions though, you just said no and then said something I couldn't understand. If you did answer please reword this ^^^ so I can understand your point of view.

 

[Stefos]

Couple questions about how you observe the Lord's Supper in a home church environment.

I have a portable communion set with 6 glass cups, a small juice container, and small sealable dish for wafers. I have been utilizing this thus far, but as I read the scriptures it seems those people were eating full blown meals, not a single small wafer and ounce sized cup of juice.

Is the Lord's Supper just any meal that a fellowship of Christian's eat together in Jesus' name? Or do you actually utilize wafers and juice?

Also what is your position on allowing small children in partaking?

Thank you!!!

O.K. Here you are sir:

1. Get rid of the portable set for "wafers" and cups.

The New Testament doesn't say anything about this being normal practice.

2. In scripture, typically they partook of the Lord's body & blood in the context of a meal. When Jesus first did this, it was part of a Passover meal..When Paul mentions this, it was part of a meal.

Therefore, it should be part of a larger meal whenever possible but
If you can't that's fine, in my opinion.
Scripture know no such dogmatic stance as to when, where & how the Lord's body & blood are to be taken.
It DOES dogmatically state that when you do take it, that you should first "examine yourself." Why?
Paul says essentially "To discern the Lord's body."
Furthermore he states "Whoever takes it in an unworthy manner shall be guilty of the body & blood of the Lord."

When you keep this in context, you see that the rich were eating & getting drunk & the poor were essentially being dishonored.
IF the rich in Corinth were honoring the poor as brothers & sisters, they wouldn't be getting drunk and fattening up on food!
The rich didn't discern the Lord's body and Paul said "this is many of you are sick & some have died/fallen asleep."

Jesus takes his body (HIS people) very seriously.
When we eat the "Lord's body" it is a type & shadow of Jesus AND the church.
The church IS Jesus's body! Therefore we respect all of God's people no matter what financial situation they are in or what race they are or how smart or not so smart they are.

I can't make it any plainer sir!
There you have it.

Follow Jesus......Love the Lord.....Follow what the written word says.
Stefos

 

[ByTheSpirit]

O.K. Here you are sir:

1. Get rid of the portable set for "wafers" and cups.

The New Testament doesn't say anything about this being normal practice.

2. In scripture, typically they partook of the Lord's body & blood in the context of a meal. When Jesus first did this, it was part of a Passover meal..When Paul mentions this, it was part of a meal.

Therefore, it should be part of a larger meal whenever possible but
If you can't that's fine, in my opinion.
Scripture know no such dogmatic stance as to when, where & how the Lord's body & blood are to be taken.
It DOES dogmatically state that when you do take it, that you should first "examine yourself." Why?
Paul says essentially "To discern the Lord's body."
Furthermore he states "Whoever takes it in an unworthy manner shall be guilty of the body & blood of the Lord."

When you keep this in context, you see that the rich were eating & getting drunk & the poor were essentially being dishonored.
IF the rich in Corinth were honoring the poor as brothers & sisters, they wouldn't be getting drunk and fattening up on food!
The rich didn't discern the Lord's body and Paul said "this is many of you are sick & some have died/fallen asleep."

Jesus takes his body (HIS people) very seriously.
When we eat the "Lord's body" it is a type & shadow of Jesus AND the church.
The church IS Jesus's body! Therefore we respect all of God's people no matter what financial situation they are in or what race they are or how smart or not so smart they are.

I can't make it any plainer sir!
There you have it.

Follow Jesus......Love the Lord.....Follow what the written word says.
Stefos

Ok I can follow this... So you think the "Lord's Supper" is/can be a normal evening meal, just done in context of the Church. Like a potluck type event? That makes sense and I don't disagree thank you

 

[1watchman]

I am sure the early saints in the Epistles did not take of the Lord's supper in the manner of an ordinary meal, nor is that acceptable to God; but some professing Christians seem to have been doing that in some gatherings, which Paul spoke against.

There is good ministry available on the meaning of the Supper and the Table (which are quite distinct, as well as meant to be together in God's appointed place). The views of various voices about this may favor doing whatever appeals to one as alright, but careful review of the Word of God shows what God really intends.

One who wishes to pursue this subject further may write to me for papers on the subject, but I am not inclined nor can this be adequately explained in a few posts herein. Certainly each one needs to be persuaded by the Spirit of God as to what is the mind of God, and not according to the reasoning of various voices. Look up always!

 

[Stefos]

Ok I can follow this... So you think the "Lord's Supper" is/can be a normal evening meal, just done in context of the Church. Like a potluck type event? That makes sense and I don't disagree thank you

No sir.

The Lord's body & blood are NOT to be taken with a blase attitude.

I also never said that the Lord's body & blood are a "normal evening meal."
Please read what I've posted.

I said that at some point during a normal evening meal, they took wine & bread (The Lord's blood & body).

That's what scripture says, NOT that the Lord's body & blood are a normal meal. That's wrong.

Thanks....Follow scripture...Read scripture.
Stefos

 

[1watchman]

The actual event at the Passover, was the Lord with His twelve disciples (the Apostles) obeying the ordinance required by the feast of unleavened bread (Mark 14:13-21 ), then after that Jesus ordained the Lord's supper --the bread and wine (Mark 14:22-26) --two separate acts. The Church only regards the Lord's supper and not the Jewish Passover.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

No sir.

The Lord's body & blood are NOT to be taken with a blase attitude.

I also never said that the Lord's body & blood are a "normal evening meal."
Please read what I've posted.

I said that at some point during a normal evening meal, they took wine & bread (The Lord's blood & body).

That's what scripture says, NOT that the Lord's body & blood are a normal meal. That's wrong.

Thanks....Follow scripture...Read scripture.
Stefos

Then perhaps you should work on your delivery. You may well have explained in a manner you saw appropriate but if no one can understand what you are saying, what good does it do?

So if the Lord's Supper isn't just a meal (breaking of bread that is scriptural) why should I give up my wafers and wine/juice?

What if someone can't drink wine?

You see what I'm getting at, you may have good intentions here with what you are saying. In fact I'm sure you do. But it's almost to the point of legalism by saying no no no you can't do this or that, it has to be this way or else it's wrong.

 

[Stefos]

Then perhaps you should work on your delivery. You may well have explained in a manner you saw appropriate but if no one can understand what you are saying, what good does it do?

So if the Lord's Supper isn't just a meal (breaking of bread that is scriptural) why should I give up my wafers and wine/juice?

What if someone can't drink wine?

You see what I'm getting at, you may have good intentions here with what you are saying. In fact I'm sure you do. But it's almost to the point of legalism by saying no no no you can't do this or that, it has to be this way or else it's wrong.

To clarify for you:

The phrase "breaking bread" in the New Testament means "having a meal together" essentially.

The Lord's Supper is not "just a meal."
It was done, according to scripture, in the context of a meal the believers had together.....See the difference?

Wafers & Juice are not Bread & Wine.
Furthermore, the round thin wafer has got nothing to do with Jewish bread or Roman bread of the time period....It's a pagan thing brought in.

Third, IF someone can't drink wine, that's a different story.
No where in scripture did one believer condemn another regarding drinking wine or not however we should, whenever possible, drink wine.

I understand alcoholism....people in my family died because of it.

Finally, I'm not a legalist but I am a stickler for doing things in the pattern the New Testament has given, not according to whatever someone makes up off the top of their head as each of the 33,000 Protestant denominations have! Yes, it's around that high. BTW, I'm not a Catholic or Orthodox or Protestant....I'm a follower/disciple of Jesus following what God's word says.

I have never said "It is a sin to not drink wine" or "It is a sin to have the Lord's body & blood outside the context of a meal" NEVER.....

Legalism is doing things to get salvation.....I've never advocated that nor would I. That being said, If you or I or anyone calling themselves a "Christian" is not following the New Testament pattern of body oversight or having each believer walk in their ministry or the Lord's supper....My question is "Why?...Do YOU have a better way?"

Jesus said over & over again that he wants obedience.
If the New Testament pattern of & for the body of Christ is there, no one today has any right to bypass or superimpose what they think it should say.

There is, bottom line, absolutely NO reason why Christians of the 21st century cannot follow the New Testament pattern....none whatsoever.

Does that clarify things for you?

I hope it does.

As I've stated before: Read God's word & be in prayer asking the Holy Spirit to help you live it and to put on Christ and make no provision for your flesh or fallen nature.

Stefos

 

[Episaw]

The last supper was just that. A meal to remember the time that the angel of death passed over the Israelite houses in the land of Egypt. At no time then or now was it a communion ritual. We have made it that because in effect we are a throwback to Roman Catholicism which legalised the ritual so that the priest would retain control over the congregation. The church wanted certain things to be done only by a priest so that they could maintain an element of mystery in things.

There are two meanings to the Greek term “do this” as in “do this in remembrance of me.” One means do this once and the other means keep on doing this. This term only appears in one Gospel and it is the one that means do this once. It does not mean keep on doing this so that means that Jesus was not putting into place a ritual of wafer and thimble of wine.

At the same time the New Testament Church (NTC) which was a branch of Judaism, would still have followed the Jewish system which was a Passover once a year, not every week.

When it comes to the gentile church you will find in Corinthians that they met together FOR A MEAL, not bread and wine and the passage that talks about it is an instruction to the church when they came together for a meal. It talks about some being hungry. Do you really think a wafer and thimble of wine is going to satisfy that hunger?

Paul ends up saying that when you come together to EAT, wait for each other. If you are hungry, eat at home. If they came together to eat a wafer and drink a thimbleful of wine, they are still going to be hungry. And that word in the Greek means to eat meat.

When the NTC met together in homes, note homes not religious buildings they did four things. Pray, fellowship, teaching and breaking of bread. In those days if I met you in the street and wanted to invite you back to my place for a meal, I would say “Would you like to join me to break bread?” That would not be an invite to a wafer and a thimble of wine.

At the meal table the meal did not start until the head of the table broke apart a loaf and gave each person a piece, hence breaking of bread.

I asked my head of religious studies at University who was an Anglican priest “Did they have communion in the NTC?” His reply was “No. They met together for meals and it was changed later to communion by the catholic church” and as Frank Viola says in his book “Pagan Christianity” that the protestant church is nothing more than a revised version of Catholicism.

 

[Episaw]

I never said the New Testament said you CANNOT meet in a building but the word does say that "God does NOT dwell in temples made with human hands" You can find that in Acts when Paul addressed the Areopagus.Stefos

To add to that Stephos the word says that we worship in spirit and truth. Not we worship in the Anglican Church or the Baptist Church or the Pentecostal Church or the Episcopalian Church or the Methodist Church or the and so on and so on.

With your comment and mine, who needs a building. If the weather is fine we could worship on the beach; in the park; on a mountain; down in the valley etc. but we don't because we are afraid to be seen in public and/or "the" minister might be afraid he will lose control of the situation.

BTW, if God does not dwell in a temple made with human hands, why does the church meet in a temple made with human hands when he has said he is not going to be there?

Beats me. Talk about flogging a dead horse.

 

[Digout]

Couple questions about how you observe the Lord's Supper in a home church environment.

I have a portable communion set with 6 glass cups, a small juice container, and small sealable dish for wafers. I have been utilizing this thus far, but as I read the scriptures it seems those people were eating full blown meals, not a single small wafer and ounce sized cup of juice.

Is the Lord's Supper just any meal that a fellowship of Christian's eat together in Jesus' name? Or do you actually utilize wafers and juice?

Also what is your position on allowing small children in partaking?

Thank you!!!

Excerpts from the book "Why I am A Believer in Jesus":

Let me discuss one ritual that is commonly observed in all kinds of Churches, that is, communion (Eucharist). A meticulous study of the scriptures clearly indicates that it was a ritual instituted by Paul to tackle the problem in notorious Corinthian Church established by him! What was established was the blood covenant by Jesus Christ with His apostles, not communion during the last supper!


What is difficult to follow: ritual of communion or abiding by the blood Covenant that is the law of Christ? Obviously, it is the communion procedure. People, naturally, settle for convenient arrangements avoiding the harder aspects, giving unnecessary importance and branding for an easy observance!

The participants of the Last Supper, namely, Matthew and John do not record in their gospels to perform this ritual as a ‘remembrance’ of His death! Mark, who got much of the information for the gospel through Peter, who was also present, did not write that it should be observed at fixed intervals! Luke who wrote the gospel gathering information from Paul and also from others did not also indicate that it should be observed frequently in his earlier manuscripts. [It is indicated in a footnote of the NASB that ‘some ancient manuscripts do not contain the remainder of verse 19 nor any of verse 20’ in Luke chapter 22 as a part of ‘remembrance’] Therefore, Jesus never wanted this to be observed as a routine ritual!

As a reminder, Jesus Christ declares that He will neither eat nor drink again until the kingdom of God comes (Luke 22:16-18) Even Paul did not fix up a frequency for this, like, daily, weekly, monthly or yearly observance! Paul was never with Jesus in His earthly ministry, so he missed out many important tenets preached by Jesus! All the apostles grew in spiritual stature gradually. Paul still had his pharisaic mind in the beginning! He simply came up with a solution at Corinth with a ritual, influenced by his old nature with an eagerness to solve the problem based on the reports he had received!

That was not the case with the apostles. If you happened to go through the apocryphal books, such as, Acts according to Peter and Thomas, you will find that they observed the spirit of communion based on what Jesus Christ preached: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him” (John 6:53-56).

The new believers who accepted Him as their Savior should also believe in what He said symbolically with a spiritual sense. The communion was observed in the early Churches-- that directly involved apostles--with new believers understanding the spirit behind what the Lord had said.

What is spiritual cannot be converted to a routine practice! The communion will be meaningful only, as I have indicated before, when it is celebrated with new believers immediately after baptism. That also gives credence to the ‘Great Commission’ advocated by the Lord as a part of the responsibility of a believer. Heaven will rejoice when a new believer is brought before the Lord! What other occasions other than communion is fit to solemnize this event with the angels and other believers?

What is happening now in Churches? All kinds of bizarre thinking and belief go with that! Thinking that Jesus Christ will become body and blood in the elements of bread and wine is not supported by the Bible! Such an uncalled for belief will make everyone a kind of a cannibal! Not only that, it is a sadistic thinking of expecting Jesus Christ to get crucified and shed blood whenever communion is observed!

In the book of Acts breaking of the bread may signify both communal and communion or just one of the two. This performance was recorded several times since new batches of believers were added in succession in Jerusalem after the Pentecost.

Communion was never observed before the Pentecost. Why did they not observe before if it had been indicated during the Last Supper? Its first observance was recorded after 3000 people were baptized (Acts 2:42).

Communion has nothing to do with our salvation, that too, when it is being carried out as a ritual! Many Churches give too much of importance to this part of service relegating the word of God! In some Churches people come only for this and walk away immediately afterwards! What is important: inspired words of God or the elements of the communion? It is a typical tendency of people going after created things rather than towards the Creator!

Now churches excommunicate people who do not go by its doctrines and its governance. They are prevented from participating in the communion! A big deal! Who can prevent a person in hearing the word of God?

In some other churches, one has to compulsorily participate for certain number of times in a year to claim a right to exercise his franchise in church elections! These people are after secular power and rights down below, and they do not want to set their minds on things spiritual up above!

I may partake with the elements with a sense of social obligation, nothing more! The typical elements are dry compressed bread of round shape and grape juice. Recently, I have taken a vow of abstaining from wine (fermented) in tune with what Jesus declared in Matthew 26:29.

It is a good thing that ‘Salvation Army’ does not observe this! But it is making a mistake of avoiding baptism also! From an individual point of view, communion has become a ritual while baptism is not! Jesus clearly says that one has to undergo water baptism before one is baptized with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Redheadedstepchild]

Mod Hat

Thread has been cleaned.

 

[1watchman]

Good --thoughts were going down the wrong road and mixing verses all over!

 

[leszed]

Digout. Very interesting vor me. Jesus is not body or blood. Judas Iscariot and ... Eucharist.

 

[leszed]

Good --thoughts were going down the wrong road and mixing verses all over!

1watchman, I can't send to you private message. I tried it.

 

[Johnnz]

I am sure the early saints in the Epistles did not take of the Lord's supper in the manner of an ordinary meal, nor is that acceptable to God; but some professing Christians seem to have been doing that in some gatherings, which Paul spoke against.

There is good ministry available on the meaning of the Supper and the Table (which are quite distinct, as well as meant to be together in God's appointed place). The views of various voices about this may favor doing whatever appeals to one as alright, but careful review of the Word of God shows what God really intends.

That's just not correct. The NT Christians met in homes around a common meal. Sometimes that resulted in issues which we see Paul addressing in 1 Corinthians. The more formal practice we have today removed the remembrance facets from part of a common meal into a formal ceremony within a building as ecclesiastical structures began to dominate.

John
NZ