The linage...FACT or FICTION?

[Ark Guy]

I presented this linage on another thread and the Theo-Evos seemed to avoid answering the question.

So, here is is again. Would someone please show me where the linage turns from fact to fiction. Certainly it must, that is considering that the Theo-Evos claim that Adam didn't really exist and was really just some sort of representation of the first group of evolved primates that had a soul.

Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,

Heli,
Matthat,
Levi,
Melki,
Jannai,
Joseph,
Mattathias,
Amos,
Nahum,
Esli,
Naggai,
Maath,
Mattathias,
Semein,
Josech,
Joda,
Joanan,
Rhesa,
Zerubbabel,
Shealtiel,
Neri,
Melki,
Addi,
Cosam,
Elmadam,
Er,
Joshua,
Eliezer,
Jorim,
Matthat,
Levi,
Simeon,
Judah,
Joseph,
Jonam,
Eliakim,
Melea,
Menna,
Mattatha,
Nathan,
David,
Jesse,
Obed,
Boaz,
Salmon,
Nahshon,
Amminadab,
Ram,
Hezron,
Perez,
Judah,
Jacob,
Isaac,
Abraham,
Terah,
Nahor,
Serug,
Reu,
Peleg,
Eber,
Shelah,
Cainan,
Arphaxad,
Shem,
Noah,
Lamech,
Methuselah,
Enoch,
Jared,
Mahalalel,
Kenan,
Enosh,
Seth,
Adam,
God.​

 

[ThePhoenix]

Where exactly did you get this list? Obviously a large part of it is Genesis, but Matthew 1:16 says that Jacob was the father of Joseph, not this Heli.

 

[Bushido216]

Think of it like this...

God creates Adam and Eve.

They have Abel and Cain.

Cain kills Abel.

Cain has children with his wife.

Wait a minute, his wife? Where'd she come from?

Get it now?

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Where exactly did you get this list? Obviously a large part of it is Genesis, but Matthew 1:16 says that Jacob was the father of Joseph, not this Heli.

Luke 3:23-38

 

[ThePhoenix]

Well now we have:

3Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
24the son of Heli, the son of Matthat,
the son of Levi, the son of Melki,
the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
25the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos,
the son of Nahum, the son of Esli,
26the son of Naggai, the son of Maath,
the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein,
the son of Josech, the son of Joda,
27the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa,
the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel,

Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13Zerubbabel the father of Abiud,
Abiud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Eliud,
15Eliud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Something has got to be wrong here.

 

[Bushido216]

Wow... that's just wierd.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

[aside]Funny how the literalists try to argue that one of the lineages is the Blessed Virgin's, when it says quite clearly both are Joseph's, isn't it?[/aside]

OK, Ark Guy. Where does this lineage become non-historical?: http://www.magoo.com/hugh/irishkings.html#milesian1

See? A game for all the family.

 

[ThePhoenix]

Can we safely conclude that, based on the bible, the lineage becomes non-historical right after Joseph?

 

[Ark Guy]

I see that the Theo-Evo sect is still running away from the question.

The bottom line, it ought to be making them re-visit their faith in evolutionISM and the bible.

So come on fellows, where does the list change from fact to fiction.

 

[ThePhoenix]

I see that the Theo-Evo sect is still running away from the question.

The bottom line, it ought to be making them re-visit their faith in evolutionISM and the bible.

So come on fellows, where does the list change from fact to fiction.

Did, you oh, say, READ THE POSTS?

 

[Ark Guy]

Phoenix, you do know that there are two linages in the new Testament...one belongs to Mary and the other belongs to Joseph?...yes?

 

[troodon]

Phoenix, you do know that there are two linages in the new Testament...one belongs to Mary and the other belongs to Joseph?...yes?

Erm...

Matthew 1:16 "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ."

Luke 3:23 "Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli."

Am I missing something?

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Phoenix, you do know that there are two linages in the new Testament...one belongs to Mary and the other belongs to Joseph?...yes?

Read both lineages. Both say that they are of Joseph.

 

[Bushido216]

Someone needs to read their own Bible.

 

[ThePhoenix]

Phoenix, you do know that there are two linages in the new Testament...one belongs to Mary and the other belongs to Joseph?...yes?

The interpretation isn't hard, both say they're the lineage of Joseph. Unless the bible is wrong.

P.S. How do you decide which is which, since they BOTH say they're of Joseph.

 

[Ark Guy]

Well, you guys stewed enough with your ad-hoc replies.

Now sit back, read and learn.

Ref verses.
Matt 1:16 and to Jacob was born Joseph the husband of Mary,
Luke 3:23... being supposedly the son of Joseph the son of Eli.

The bible seems quite clear that The Matthew verse tells us that Jacob as the father of Joseph. The term "born" in the verse seems to indicate that this is the case. Jacob was Josephs biological father.

Luke 3:23 may appear to be in contradiction or error saying that Joseph was the son of Eli. Further research clearly indicates that Joseph was the son-in-law of Eli and that the term and meaning of the word in the ancient greek language and legal understanding of the title "son" in this case meant "son-in-law".

Some reasons why.
1)The Son-in-law belief is held by several early Christian writers.
a, Origen
b, Irenaeus
c, Tertullian,
d, Athanasius
e, Justin Martyr


2)It is indirectly confirmed by Jewish tradition. The Talmudic writers wrote of Mary as the daughter of Eli.

3) This verse shows us in what way Christ was the Son of David. If Mary was the daughter of Eli, then Jesus was strictly a descendent of David, not only "legally", through his reputed father, but "actually", by direct personal descent, through his mother.

4) This point affords a simple explanation of the whole matter.
Mary, since she had no brothers, was an heiress; therefor her husband, according to Jewish law, was reckoned among her fathers family , as his "son". This would make Joseph the "actual" son of Jacob, and the "legal" son of Eli.
The book of Matthew sets forth Jesus' right to the theocratic crown, where Luke sets forth his natural pedigree. The latter employs Joseph's name, instead of Mary's, in "accordance with the Israelite law" that " genealogies must be reckoned by fathers, not mothers."

5)According to an interlinear bible, the word son is not even used in the luke 3:23 verse when refering to Joseph as being the son of Eli. The word "Son" is probably italicized in your bible. I know my NASB and KJV have it that way. The correct translation is Joseph of Eli. The history and reasonings presented earlier indicate the Joseph was the son-in-law of ELI.

It can clearly be seen that the word SON has been added to the translations to help clearify the verse.

i trust you now stand corrected.

 

[Ark Guy]

Now back to the linage that you guys seem to be dodging around.....

 

[ThePhoenix]

Now back to the linage that you guys seem to be dodging around.....

Interesting that you mention that, since your lineage goes Joseph - HELI etc. etc. etc. Now you say the Jacob lineage is correct. Which one is it?

 

[Ark Guy]

Eli and heli are one in the same. Of course you already knew that.

 

[ThePhoenix]

Eli and heli are one in the same. Of course you already knew that.

I know that. What I'm saying is that you said in your post that the Jacob-Joseph lineage was genetically correct, and the Eli/Heli-Joseph lineage was just describing Mary's lineage, since Eli was Joseph's stepfather. Ok, but how come the lineage you listed was the Eli one? Joseph wasn't related to Eli, except through marriage, by your own claims.