The life of a Progressive Christian...

[k4c]

What does the everyday life of a Progressive Christian look like?


Do they attend a weekly gathering of believers?


Do they teach against breaking the Ten Commandments?


Do they believe incest is wrong even if it's only said to be wrong under the law?


Do they believe in two Gods, which consist of the eternal Jesus and His eternal Father?


Do they believe that two eternal beings can be eternally equal in all things yet be one being?

 

[ricker]

What does the everyday life of a Progressive Christian look like?


Do they attend a weekly gathering of believers?


Do they teach against breaking the Ten Commandments?


Do they believe incest is wrong even if it's only said to be wrong under the law?


Do they believe in two Gods, which consist of the eternal Jesus and His eternal Father?


Do they believe that two eternal beings can be eternally equal in all things yet be one being?

I think you need to define "progressive Christian" a little better. I don't know if I should answer this or not.
Do you want our opinion of what the average non-adventist Christian may think, or what we personally do and believe, or what?
I guess I don't think of myself as a Lutheran to be terribly progressive, so maybe I will sit this one out....

 

[VictorC]

I think you need to define "progressive Christian" a little better. I don't know if I should answer this or not.

I have no idea what a "progressive Christian" is, either.
The seventh-day Adventist church is what came to my mind as I read k4c's post, or some other groups who have left the historic faith given to us.

Victor

 

[k4c]

I have no idea what a "progressive Christian" is, either.
The seventh-day Adventist church is what came to my mind as I read k4c's post, or some other groups who have left the historic faith given to us.

Victor

The reason why I ask is because people on the TA tell me to go to the Progressive Adventist threads to post. It seems to me that PA is an offshoot of the TA. If so, do they believe similar to TA such as TC. If they don't believe in the TC then what do they use to govern their lives. If they say the words of Jesus then they will have disregard all the times Jesus talks about adultery, stealing, lying and so on because they are of the TC. And what about things forbiden in the law but not spoken of in the NT, yet they still call it forbiden such as incest.

 

[StormyOne]

The reason why I ask is because people on the TA tell me to go to the Progressive Adventist threads to post. It seems to me that PA is an offshoot of the TA. If so, do they believe similar to TA such as TC. If they don't believe in the TC then what do they use to govern their lives. If they say the words of Jesus then they will have disregard all the times Jesus talks about adultery, stealing, lying and so on because they are of the TC. And what about things forbiden in the law but not spoken of in the NT, yet they still call it forbiden such as incest.

your perception would be incorrect.... progressive sda's are not an offshoot of adventism, traditional/historic adventism would be the offshoot...

As for what people use to govern their lives? That is important because what? Are you married? What rules are written down that govern the lives of those who are married? NONE... a good marital relationship is governed by love.... while there may be rules, ask any happily married couple and they will probably tell you that they love their spouse as best as they can....

So then, I would suspect that those in a relationship with God attempt to love as best as they can....

I think your emphasis on rules and the like while interesting can be unhealthy...

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Hi K4C and Stormy! Welcome back K4C! This post is a response to both of your posts.

K4C wrote:

The reason why I ask is because people on the TA tell me to go to the Progressive Adventist threads to post. It seems to me that PA is an offshoot of the TA.

Stormy wrote:

your perception would be incorrect.... progressive sda's are not an offshoot of adventism, traditional/historic adventism would be the offshoot...

I disagree with Stormy. When you read about the traditional positions taken by SDAism, when you read and pursue an understanding of the 28 fundamental beliefs of SDAism, when you read the writings of the continuing and authoritative source of truth, you will find that the positions taken by traditional SDAs are the positions that are the most in line with what the denomination stands for and has always stood for.

Now, that is by no means meant to be an endorsement of traditional SDAs. I believe that, as SDAs begin to move away from some of the "unique teachings" of SDAism (such as the close of probation, the SDA stance on the seal of God and the mark of the beast and the investigative judgment), such SDAs move toward the gospel of Jesus Christ, the gospel of salvation by grace through faith. Therefore, I praise God for leading progressive SDAs to distance themselves from the traditional teachings of SDAism and embracing instead the gospel of Jesus Christ.

K4C wrote:

If they don't believe in the TC then what do they use to govern their lives.

Please read John 14, John 16 and 2 Corinthians 3. The Spirit convicts us with respect to sin and righteousness and judgment. The ministry of the Spirit is more glorious and lasting than the ministry of letters engraved on stones.

K4C wrote:

If they say the words of Jesus then they will have disregard all the times Jesus talks about adultery, stealing, lying and so on because they are of the TC.

There is evidence in Scripture that the Spirit convicts men of the error of such behaviors even before the law was added 430 years after Abraham. For example, Cain knew it was wrong to kill. Joseph knew it was wrong to commit adultery. Abraham knew it was wrong to lie to Pharoah. This knowledge existed well before there was any type of codified system of law. Sin exists in the absence of law. That is why the Scriptures confirm that all wrongdoing is sin. That is why the Scriptures confirm that any man who knows to do what is right and does it not, to him it is sin.


Stormy wrote:

As for what people use to govern their lives? That is important because what? Are you married? What rules are written down that govern the lives of those who are married? NONE... a good marital relationship is governed by love.... while there may be rules, ask any happily married couple and they will probably tell you that they love their spouse as best as they can....

Very well said, Stormy.

I think your emphasis on rules and the like while interesting can be unhealthy...

When we read the sermon on the mount, what do we learn? Is God only interested in strict obedience, or is God more interested in what is happening the heart. I like to keep the main thing the main thing. Story, it sounds as though you do as well. In Scripture, the main thing is love, not law.


BFA

 

[k4c]

As for what people use to govern their lives? That is important because what? Are you married? What rules are written down that govern the lives of those who are married? NONE... a good marital relationship is governed by love.... while there may be rules, ask any happily married couple and they will probably tell you that they love their spouse as best as they can....

I married my high school sweat heart. We have been together for 28 years now. The thing that governs my relsationship with my wife is in the fact that I know what pleases my wife and what does not please her. I know this because she has communicated these things to me.

Now take this thought over to our relationship with God. God is invisible so for me to get to know what pleases Him is different than how I get to know what pleases my wife. God has written down with His very own finger what pleases Him. We can read it and if we love Him we will do what pleases Him.

1 John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

 

[k4c]

Byfaithalone: Please read John 14, John 16 and 2 Corinthians 3. The Spirit convicts us with respect to sin and righteousness and judgment. The ministry of the Spirit is more glorious and lasting than the ministry of letters engraved on stones.

This is true, the Spirit does convict of sin but it does so through the law for sin is the transgression of the law.

There is evidence in Scripture that the Spirit convicts men of the error of such behaviors even before the law was added 430 years after Abraham. For example, Cain knew it was wrong to kill. Joseph knew it was wrong to commit adultery. Abraham knew it was wrong to lie to Pharoah. This knowledge existed well before there was any type of codified system of law. Sin exists in the absence of law. That is why the Scriptures confirm that all wrongdoing is sin. That is why the Scriptures confirm that any man who knows to do what is right and does it not, to him it is sin.

This is true and shows us that the law is good and holy because it spells out for us what has always been the standard.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

What are your thoughts about progressives vs. traditionals? Which is the offshoot of the other?

This is true, the Spirit does convict of sin but it does so through the law

Please cite Scriptural evidence for this statement.

for sin is the transgression of the law.

All wrongdoing is sin. If a man knows to do right and doesn't do it, to him it is sin. It seems that you are limiting the definition of "sin" in a way that the Scriptures do not.

This is true and shows us that the law is good and holy because it spells out for us what has always been the standard.

What it shows is that the "standards" (to use your word) exist even when there is no law. They exist through the conviction of the Spirit.

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I married my high school sweat heart. We have been together for 28 years now. The thing that governs my relsationship with my wife is in the fact that I know what pleases my wife and what does not please her. I know this because she has communicated these things to me.

Has she written a list of commands that you are required to obey? What happens if you disobey her commands? Are you any less married? Which is more effective, a loving communication about what she needs, or a list of commands?

Let's imagine that your marriage was in distress. You were regularly committing adultery. Let's imagine that your wife drags you to a marriage counselor and imposes some written requirements that you must meet in order to remain in the marriage. She says that you must change jobs to get away from your mistress. She says that you must stop going to bars. She says that you must attend a men's Bible study. Do you suppose that this list of written requirements must stay in place forever? Do you think it is healthy if they do?

God's relationship with His people was in distress. The law was added because of transgressions, but it was added only until the Seed had come. The law was needed in order to instruct the people and to create a dependence among the people on God. Now that the Seed has come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Rather, we have the ministry of the Spirit which is more glorious and lasting than the ministry of letters engraved on stones.

BFA

 

[k4c]

Byfaithalone: All wrongdoing is sin. If a man knows to do right and doesn't do it, to him it is sin. It seems that you are limiting the definition of "sin" in a way that the Scriptures do not.

The key to your quote are the words, "To him it is sin". There are some things that may not be sinful to God but may be sinful to an individual, such as, eating meat or drinking wine.

Romans 14:21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.

The TC are universal and are sinful to all, according to God's standard. I may fly a plane into a building and kill thousands of people all in the name of God but what does God say about this? The one flying the plane may feel he is doing right in the eyes of God so for him it is not sin.

What it shows is that the "standards" (to use your word) exist even when there is no law. They exist through the conviction of the Spirit.

There may have been no law on stone but there was a law. The law on stone shows in detail and completeness what should be on the heart and manifested in the lives of God's people. I may know it's wrong to steal and lie but how about graven images? Even today we have people who doen't think it's wrong to worship and pray to images because the beast kingdom has removed the second commandment that tells us it's wrong.

 

[VictorC]

The reason why I ask is because people on the TA tell me to go to the Progressive Adventist threads to post. It seems to me that PA is an offshoot of the TA. If so, do they believe similar to TA such as TC. If they don't believe in the TC then what do they use to govern their lives. If they say the words of Jesus then they will have disregard all the times Jesus talks about adultery, stealing, lying and so on because they are of the TC. And what about things forbiden in the law but not spoken of in the NT, yet they still call it forbiden such as incest.

I am simply not following this verbiage.
I asked for what a "progressive" Christian is in your view, and that remains unanswered.

Victor

 

[k4c]

I am simply not following this verbiage.
I asked for what a "progressive" Christian is in your view, and that remains unanswered.

Victor

I don't know what it is. I heard the statement, Progessive Adventist, but I don't know what it means or what they believe. To me it seems they don't believe in EGW nor clean and unclean meats. That's as far as I can guess.

 

[VictorC]

I don't know what it is. I heard the statement, Progessive Adventist, but I don't know what it means or what they believe. To me it seems they don't believe in EGW nor clean and unclean meats. That's as far as I can guess.

Then we're not using the same terms.
A "progressive Adventist" isn't the same as a "progressive" Christian.
In my opinion, the progressive SDA's are those going back toward the roots of the Gospel before Ellen White came up with her grotesque deviations.

 

[StormyOne]

Then we're not using the same terms.
A "progressive Adventist" isn't the same as a "progressive" Christian.
In my opinion, the progressive SDA's are those going back toward the roots of the Gospel before Ellen White came up with her grotesque deviations.

that would be closest to the truth...

 

[k4c]

Then we're not using the same terms.
A "progressive Adventist" isn't the same as a "progressive" Christian.
In my opinion, the progressive SDA's are those going back toward the roots of the Gospel before Ellen White came up with her grotesque deviations.

What do they believe and where can I find some of them?

 

[StormyOne]

I don't know what it is. I heard the statement, Progessive Adventist, but I don't know what it means or what they believe. To me it seems they don't believe in EGW nor clean and unclean meats. That's as far as I can guess.

all progressive adventists do not believe in the same things necessarily.... why must they?

 

[StormyOne]

What do they believe and where can I find some of them?

they are all around you... RC is progressive, I am progressive and then some... but as I said, we do not all hold the same set of beliefs.....

 

[k4c]

they are all around you... RC is progressive, I am progressive and then some... but as I said, we do not all hold the same set of beliefs.....

What do you believe about eternal security (OSAS)?

What do you believe regarding the Sabbath?

What do you believe reagrding clean and unclean meats?

What do you believe regarding EGW?

What do you believe about the Trinity?

What do you believe about state of the dead?

 

[StormyOne]

What do you believe about eternal security (OSAS)?

God is not willing that any should perish....

What do you believe regarding the Sabbath?

it is a day in which one can rest if they are so inclined...

What do you believe regarding clean and unclean meats?

eat whatever doesn't kill you.....

What do you believe regarding EGW?

she has been dead almost a hundred years, she did her best while she was alive, though in death the adventist church has made her the defacto pope of adventism...

What do you believe about the Trinity?

One Being, different manifestations....

What do you believe about state of the dead?

Not enough information.... they may be in another dimension for all I know...
Having said that, I believe those are issues that are important to you so that you can attempt to label or place in a box people you interact with.... if you want to know about me, then you will have to talk with me, and asking me what I believe about certain issues is not IMO trying to get to know me... I am more than just those things I have opinions about.....