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When Jesus comes for the rapture/resurrection event, we meet Him in the air, and go to heaven where Jesus has prepared a place for us."There will be one Second Coming," but "before then will [be] Jesus's coming..."
Amazing that you cannot see the contradiction in these two phrases. Essentially you are saying that there will be two second comings of Christ into this earth's affairs, but only one of them is entitled to be called "Second Coming." Gobblyspeak.
I agree with this course of events. However, the rapture/resurrection event is what begins the time of the "Second Coming." Which phrase, as I have pointed out, is unbiblical, and has brought about too much misunderstanding.When Jesus comes for the rapture/resurrection event, we meet Him in the air, and go to heaven where Jesus has prepared a place for us.
Then when Jesus Returns, known as the Second Coming, He returns with His bride, the glorified saints of the rapture/resurrection event.
Jesus will set foot back on earth, the Mt. of Olives, and split it in half, making a valley for the Jews in Jerusalem held as hostages to escape through, in Zechariah 14.
Short answer: what restrains lawlessness, and therefore the lawless one, is law, hence government (Romans 13:1-7), typically headed by a ruler. Which is why Jesus and Paul taught that rampant lawlessness will be a primary sign of the End Times.Who is "He"?
2Th 2:7
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[fn] who now restrains will do so until He[fn] is taken out of the way.
Fulfilled immediately afterwards in His transfiguration on the mountain with Moses and Elijah, seen by Peter, James and John.
There is no evidence that they ever proselytized any of the cities of Judah/Southern Israel in their day.
The "this [literally, the same] generation" refers to the generation of the fig tree putting forth leaves, which is End Times.
However, Daniel 11:40ff., and many many passages in Revelation, as well as Jesus' own words about such things as all the tribes of the earth seeing Him coming on the clouds of heaven, and the sign of Son of Man appearing in heaven, and the time of trouble such as never was nor shall be again -- none of these prophecies can be credibly claimed to have been fulfilled before our day.
If the kingdom had not come during Christ's ministry, then the Jews could not have rejected it, making statements like these false:Many scholars have moved away from that interpretation due to Mark, which is believed to be the first gospel written, states “come with power”. The word “come” displaying completeness. The transfiguration did not demonstrate that the kingdom had come with completeness. The coming of the kingdom of God would come completely through the death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ, sending of the spirit, the going of the gospel to the nations, and ultimately in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad.
1) As I pointed out, aute, a reflexive particle, means "the same" generation, and the context is speaking of "the same" End Time generation of the prophecy.1.) Jesus did not say “that” generation. He said “this” generation. “That” would be more grammatically appropriate if he was talking about a future “fig tree” generation.
2.) Did Jesus’ generation experience wars, rumors of wars, famines, false prophets, persecution, the gospel going to the whole “oikoumene”, the end of the age, the destruction of the temple and city? If Yes, then “this” generation appropriately applies to Jesus’ generation that literally did live through those events.
If the kingdom had not come during Christ's ministry, then the Jews could not have rejected it, making statements like these false:
Matt. 21:43 Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
1) As I pointed out, aute, a reflexive particle, means "the same" generation, and the context is speaking of "the same" End Time generation of the prophecy.
2) Jesus' generation did not see the evangelization of the whole inhabited earth, nor all of the scripturally-prophesied events for the end of the age.
Believe what you like. Meanwhile, signs of the end of the age are testifying something quite different, that is, of the "time of the end" world scenario portrayed in Daniel 11:40 ff.Right, “this” would grammatically refer to the generation standing in front of Jesus. If Jesus meant a different generation than the one in front him, “that” would be more appropriate.
And since Jesus’ generation did experience wars, famines, earthquakes, pestilence, persecution, false prophets, the gospel going to the whole oikoumene, and the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, I completely disagree with your position.
Believe what you like. Meanwhile, signs of the end of the age are testifying something quite different, that is, of the "time of the end" world scenario portrayed in Daniel 11:40 ff.
Yes, Jerusalem was destroyed then, as prophesied in Daniel 9:26-27. But none of the "time of the end" events of Daniel 11:40ff. were fulfilled in that generation. They are still to come. Part of that prophecy foretells the resurrection of multitudes of the dead from their graves, something that certainly did not occur in the 1st century AD. That resurrection from the dead is also prophesied, by Paul in 1 Cor. 15, to take place at the Parousia of Christ.i disagree with the hermeneutic of shoe horning one’s personal, and non inspired, opinions on current events into the Bible, as this has a 100 % failure rate beyond 70ad.
Was Jerusalem destroyed and did the temple fall within Jesus’ generation? Emphatically, yes.
Yes, Jerusalem was destroyed then, as prophesied in Daniel 9:26-27. But none of the "time of the end" events of Daniel 11:40ff. were fulfilled in that generation. They are still to come. Part of that prophecy foretells the resurrection of multitudes of the dead from their graves, something that certainly did not occur in the 1st century AD. That resurrection from the dead is also prophesied, by Paul in 1 Cor. 15, to take place at the Parousia of Christ.
Likewise, Jesus' visible coming in the clouds of heaven, and the great earthly and heavenly cataclysmic events prophesied in Matthew 24:29-30 = Rev. 6:12-13, did not take place in the 1st century AD.
As to prophesied events beyond 70 AD having been fulfilled after that era, you are wrong about the 100% failure rate. For one such example, the 7 Times prophecy of Leviticus 26 has been fulfilled in spades in within the last few hundred years. To see the rather detailed evidence for this in a 6-part blog, begin here:
This view is self-contradictory: the Son of Man here cannot be both sitting on the throne as the Ancient of Days and coming before Him at the same time!The phrase “son of man coming on the clouds” In the olivet discourse is an allusion to Daniel 7:13. in the “old Greek” text, the passage says “on the clouds of heaven came one like a son of man as the ancient of days”.
They were most certainly literal events in the lower heavenly realm. Only once, at Mount Sinai, did He descend all the way to show Himself in the physical realm. And only once more will He do so again, after the Last Shofar/Trump. All other times He was cloaked within the merkabah/heavenly chariot, as in Ezekiel 1 ff.keeping that in mind, In the Old Testament, it was only God who descended from heaven and rode on the clouds to judge (2 Samuel 22:10-11, Isaiah 19:1, etc….). These OT occurrences of God visibly riding on the clouds didn’t occur in a literal manner, but were instead poetic ways that ANE peoples described God coming in judging.
So you profess the heretical doctrine of replacement theology, something which Paul explicitly denies in Romans 11:25-29.Leviticus 26 finds its fulfillment in the Babylonian exile. Additionally, the old covenant was done away with in the first century, so the blessings and cursings are no longer applicable post the first century.
This view is self-contradictory: the Son of Man here cannot be both sitting on the throne as the Ancient of Days and coming before Him at the same time!
The Greek version of Daniel varies more from the Hebrew text than any other book of the OT except Proverbs. It cannot be trusted.
They were most certainly literal events in the lower heavenly realm. Only once, at Mount Sinai, did He descend all the way to show Himself in the physical realm. And only once more will He do so again, after the Last Shofar/Trump. All other times He was cloaked within the merkabah/heavenly chariot, as in Ezekiel 1 ff.
So you profess the heretical doctrine of replacement theology, something which Paul explicitly denies in Romans 11:25-29.
If you want to believe that the story of Susanna, Bel, and the Dragon is Holy Writ, that's up to you.... it makes so much more sense that Matthew’s olivet discourse alludes the old Greek text of Daniel 7.
Since the NT authors often quote from the Greek translation I completely disagree with your position that it cannot be trusted.
These were visions of heavenly things, not earthly. Unless you believe that physical horses ride around in the sky.But if want literalness then you can look at Josephus and tacitus who record glittering armies in the sky during the destruction of Jerusalem.
If you want to annul God's prophecy of Leviticus 26 because it is within the Mosaic Torah, that's up to you. Very bad idea, IMHO.My argument was that I believe the new covenant supersedes the old covenant, thus the blessings and curses as stated in Leviticus of the old covenant are no longer applicable to Gods people.
If you want to believe that the story of Susanna, Bel, and the Dragon is Holy Writ, that's up to you.
These were visions of heavenly things, not earthly. Unless you believe that physical horses ride around in the sky.
If you want to annul God's prophecy of Leviticus 26 because it is within the Mosaic Torah, that's up to you. Very bad idea, IMHO.
The NT does not quote from the LXX version of the book of Daniel, which was the issue here. And what I wrote was not a fallacy: the Septuagint version of Daniel contains added chapters that the Hebrew does not have. So if you claim that the LXX is the correct version, them you are claiming that the Hebrews deleted those added chapters!This doesn’t address that the NT often quotes from the Greek translation.
Try to avoid red herring fallacies.
The NT does not anywhere say that Christ will come on the clouds of heaven for Jerusalem's destruction.this doesn’t address my main point - which is that God came on the clouds in the OT in judgement of nations and enemies. Why should Christs coming on the clouds in association with jerusalem’s destruction be any different?
False. The 7 times prophecy = 2520 360-day years: they were clearly fulfilled only after fulfilling that period of time, with extreme accuracy; not by the Babylonian era. Evidence posted here, for those who won't reject even looking at the evidence:Gods prophesy in Leviticus was already fulfilled in the Babylonian exile.
You are by these words defying what Paul wrote in Romans 11:25-29 :The NT states in multiple occasions that the new covenant superseded the old covenant, so I disagree that the blessings and curses for obeying or disobeying the laws in Deuteronomy or Leviticus are still in play today.
The NT does not quote from the LXX version of the book of Daniel, which was the issue here. And what I wrote was not a fallacy: the Septuagint version of Daniel contains added chapters that the Hebrew does not have. So if you claim that the LXX is the correct version, them you are claiming that the Hebrews deleted those added chapters!
You claim that the LXX was quoted in Matthew 24's Olivet discourse, without providing any evidence to prove your case, which I reject.
The context of the Olivet discourse is the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem.The NT does not anywhere say that Christ will come on the clouds of heaven for Jerusalem's destruction.
True, you’ll find that the fulfillment of the lands sabbath rest was during the Babylonian exile.False
None of the mentions that the curses of Leviticus are still applicable today for not following the law. The old covenant vanished and was done away with in the first century.You are by these words defying what Paul wrote in Romans 11:25-29 :
11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26
And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins.” 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Yes, sorry I've been out for 2 weeks. I am Postribulational in my eschatology, and believe the Church will experience the *time* of God's Wrath against the Beast, but not the "Wrath" itself.If you believe these things, then by necessity you believe that the Church will go through the time of God's wrath, which begins at the sixth seal: "the great day of His wrath has come." Rev. 6:17 But "God did not appoint us to wrath." 1 Thes. 5:9
The Lawless One is pre-Parousia and therefore pre-wrath; whereas the Beast kingdom clearly is subject to the wrath.
Matthew 24:30 has nothing to do with Daniel 7, where Christ's coming in the clouds is to the throne of judgement in heaven to receive earthly dominion = Rev. 5:1-7. Matt. 24:30's coming is Christ's Parousia (24:3, 27) to earth = Rev. 6:16-17. So specifically stated in Mark 13:27. The resurrection of the dead is part of the Parousia, as so stated in 1 Cor. 15:23 and 1 Thes. 4:14.It’s argued that Matthew 24:30 is pulling from the “old Greek” of Daniel 7:13 and not the “theodotion Greek” or masoretic text because Matthew 24:30 says “on” the clouds. The theodotion Greek nor the masoretic text of Daniel 7:13 contain “on” the clouds.
Additionally, is the son of man coming on the clouds “to” the ancient of days in Matthew 24:30? If no, then it seems Matthew is not alluding to the theodotion Greek or masoretic texts, but the “old Greek” text instead.
No, the context is two-part for the two questions: when the Temple destroyed? and, what signs for the Parousia? Only Luke 21 has Jesus' reply to the first question; which temple destruction He said would take place "before all these things" of the time of the Parousia. 21:12 Which Parousia will not occur until "the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." 21:24The context of the Olivet discourse is the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem.
The law was done away for ones in Christ. For those not in Christ, but in "blindness," "the...callings of God are irrevocable." Including the promise to inherit the land of their forefathers, after they have fulfilled the 2520 sacred years of their rebellion.None of the mentions that the curses of Leviticus are still applicable today for not following the law. The old covenant vanished and was done away with in the first century.
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