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I have a question which is based upon John's gospel where he speaks of the resurrection on the last day.
Is the Last Day the Day of the LORD?
Would it be the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20?
Is that what John means when he writes about the resurrection on the last day?
Thanks for all your help in Christ Jesus,
OT
I've never been all that clear but I think it's the day when Christ returns. God controls the earth from that day forward and while the Thousand year reign of Christ might be considered, or sometimes referred to in that way, I think it's the Parosia.
I could pursue the subject if you like, depending on what your trying to nail down here.
Grace and peace,
Mark
Hi Mark and thanks for your reply.
My question concerns the resurrection of the dead. John's gospel appears to speak of the resurrection as being on the last day. Revelation 20 if taken literally (and I do believe that it is a literal thousand years) speaks of the first resurrection and then another resurrection after the thousand years are finished.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. (2 Thess. 4:14-17)
So how can John say that it is the last day?
One person told me that a day with the LORD is as a thousand years and that this is what the last day actually means, the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20.
That's why I'm wondering if that's what the Day of the LORD means? I also wonder if that is the same as the Day of Jesus Christ?
Just wondering about stuff like this. I realize that these are difficult things and so I hope that some people will share their thoughts on these things.
I guess it makes sense to me that a Day with the LORD is a thousand years as this is biblical, I just wonder if that's what the majority of believers hold to today. It doesn't necessarily need to be the majority, but rather something that is valid amongst a fairly large group of Christians etc.
Thanks again in Christ Jesus for all your help and thoughts on these things.
OT
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2 Peter 3:8)
The statements of verses 1, 7, 11, and 12 tie the resurrection to the time immediately following the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
The resurrection of believers happens when Christ returns. The judgment of unbelievers and the children of perdition and what I call, the undecided, doesn't happen for another thousand years:
I'm not sure what you mean by 'last day':
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
That's when the Tribulation Saints are raised and traditionally the entire Church was thought to be raised at the same time with them. There are some really interesting questions that arise from the Dispensationalists view that the rapture of the Church happens seven years previously. But as far as the 'last day', I would have to see the context the expression is used in.
It can mean that and a Thousand Years can mean a Thousand Years. There is an old adage, a text without a context is a pretext. If you are careful and look at the build up do and the flow from the text the Scriptures usually make it pretty clear what it means.
It's the day Christ returns, the body of Christ is raised and the enemies of God are destroyed. It's just like in Genesis where it says day and it means an actual day. I'm not trying to be condescending but the way the expression is used in Scripture is determined is that the clear, literal meaning of the term is the meaning unless there is good reason to question it and in Revelations 20, there just isn't any.
Oh I'm sure they will and there's a lot a person could learn from those kind of discussions. Just do your own thinking on it and every now and then bow your head and ask God for a little guidance, he is pretty God about helping believers understand the Scriptures.
A Day with the Lord is as a Thousand years simply means God doesn't change and whether it's a day or a thousand years with God it changes nothing:
That's the passage brother, you really ought to have a look at it in it's natural context. Peter is telling believers, who are naturally anxious to see the return of Christ, aren't we all? Peter thought it would happen immediately following the resurrection, in fact the Apostles were heart broken to hear Jesus say he was leaving them in the Upper Room. As a matter of fact Peter didn't think Jesus even needed to go to the cross but Jesus called him Satan for saying it, Peter never brought it up again after that.
Peter is telling believers that God isn't being slow, time itself is irrelevant. The Parosia (Appearing aka return) of Christ happens on the day God choose, not when we think it should because if it was up to us it would have been yesterday.
Grace and peace,
Mark
Old Timer said in post 1:
Is the Last Day the Day of the LORD?
Old Timer said in post 1:
Is that what John means when he writes about the resurrection on the last day?
Old Timer said in post 7:
John's gospel does appear to speak of both the resurrection of those who have done good and those who have done evil as taking place at the last day.
Old Timer said in post 7:
Peter speaks of the elements burning up with fervent heat in that day, and if you look at the end of Revelation 20, that happens at the end of the thousand years.
coraline quoted Curtis in post 4:
Jesus came during the last days of the age that was the Old Covenant age, the Jewish age. That age came to an end with the destruction of the temple in AD 70.
Yes.
The last days began in the first century AD with Jesus' first coming (Hebrews 1:2) and the Holy Spirit's pouring out at the Pentecost in Acts 2 (Acts 2:16-17). The last days can be the last 3, roughly 1,000-year "days" (2 Peter 3:8) of the 7, roughly 1,000-year "days" from the creation of Adam in roughly 4,000 BC to the future end of the present earth and the creation of the new earth (Revelation 21:1) in roughly 3,000 AD. So the last "days" can be the roughly 3,000 years from Jesus' first coming to sometime after the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6), which will be part of the last, roughly 1,000-year "day" (2 Peter 3:8), which could begin at Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8).
And the day of the Lord/Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:2) will begin at the Lord Jesus Christ's 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't occur until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, "immediately after" the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8), which is when the rapture (the gathering together) of the church will occur (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).
Yes, that's what those scriptures in John mean.
For in John 6:39-40 and John 12:48, the original Greek word translated as the last "day" (hemera, G2250) doesn't have to mean the last 24-hour day, but can be used figuratively to refer to a much longer period of time (e.g. see the Greek of 2 Corinthians 6:2; 2 Peter 3:8, and John 8:56). John 6:39-48 and John 12:48 will occur in the last period of time of this present earth, but they won't occur on the same 24-hour day (Revelation 20:5).
For when Jesus returns, only the church will be bodily resurrected and finally-judged (1 Corinthians 15:21-23, Revelation 20:5; Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; Matthew 25:19-30; 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 12:45-48). The obedient part of the bodily resurrected church, including those in the church who had been beheaded by the Antichrist, will then reign on the earth with the returned Jesus for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21). Only sometime after the 1,000 years and the subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion are over (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39) will the rest of the dead (of all times) be bodily resurrected (Revelation 20:5) and finally-judged at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).
*******
Regarding "resurrection of those who have done good and those who have done evil", are you thinking of John 5:28-29? If so, it wasn't until later (cf. John 16:12) that Jesus showed the apostle John that there will be two (still-unfulfilled) bodily resurrections separated by 1,000 years (Revelation 20:5). John 5:28-29 can include both of these, for the original Greek word translated as "hour" doesn't have to mean a literal hour, but can refer figuratively to any period of time. For example, the last "hour" of 1 John 2:18 (Greek) has been going on for the last 2,000 years. So the "hour" of everyone's still-future bodily resurrection (John 5:28-29) can easily span over a 1,000-year period (Revelation 20:5).
Also, at both the first and 2nd resurrection, some will undergo "the resurrection of life", while others will undergo "the resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29). For the first resurrection, at Jesus' never-fulfilled 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16), before the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6), will be of all those who became Christians (1 Corinthians 15:21-23). And some of them will lose their salvation at the 2nd coming (e.g. Luke 12:45-46), so that their resurrection will be a "resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29), a resurrection "unto shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2), because of such things as unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29), unrepentant laziness (Matthew 25:26,30), or apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8).
The 2nd resurrection, at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), after the future millennium and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15), will include all those of all times who never became Christians, and all those who became Christians during the millennium (Isaiah 66:19-21). At the great white throne judgment, those Christians (of all times) who will lose their salvation, and so will have their names blotted out of the book of life (Revelation 3:5), might be cast into the everlasting punishment of the lake of fire along with all non-Christians (Revelation 20:15,10, Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 14:10-11, Mark 9:45-46).
That's right.
Regarding 2 Peter 3:10-13, in the day of the Lord will occur the destruction of heaven (the first heaven: the sky, the atmosphere) and the earth (the surface of the earth) at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11, Revelation 21:1). And this will be followed by the creation of a new atmosphere and surface for the earth (2 Peter 3:13, Revelation 21:1) onto which New Jerusalem, God the Father's house (John 14:2, Revelation 21:2-3), will descend from the 3rd heaven (Revelation 21:2-3). But the day of the Lord won't immediately bring the destruction of earth's atmosphere and surface. For the day of the Lord will begin at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8) as a thief (2 Peter 3:10a, Revelation 16:15). And after his 2nd coming, he will establish his kingdom physically on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21).
And after the 1,000 years, the Gog/Magog rebellion will occur (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39). And after its defeat, at least 7 more years will occur (Ezekiel 39:9b), before the earth's atmosphere and surface are destroyed at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11). All these events, from Jesus' 2nd coming to the great white throne judgment, will be part of the day of the Lord. For it's not a 24-hour day, but to God is like a 1,000-year "day" (2 Peter 3:8).
Yes.
The last days began in the first century AD with Jesus' first coming (Hebrews 1:2) and the Holy Spirit's pouring out at the Pentecost in Acts 2 (Acts 2:16-17). The last days can be the last 3, roughly 1,000-year "days" (2 Peter 3:8) of the 7, roughly 1,000-year "days" from the creation of Adam in roughly 4,000 BC to the future end of the present earth and the creation of the new earth (Revelation 21:1) in roughly 3,000 AD. So the last "days" can be the roughly 3,000 years from Jesus' first coming to sometime after the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6), which will be part of the last, roughly 1,000-year "day" (2 Peter 3:8), which could begin at Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8).
And the day of the Lord/Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:2) will begin at the Lord Jesus Christ's 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't occur until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, "immediately after" the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8), which is when the rapture (the gathering together) of the church will occur (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).
Yes, that's what those scriptures in John mean.
For in John 6:39-40 and John 12:48, the original Greek word translated as the last "day" (hemera, G2250) doesn't have to mean the last 24-hour day, but can be used figuratively to refer to a much longer period of time (e.g. see the Greek of 2 Corinthians 6:2; 2 Peter 3:8, and John 8:56). John 6:39-48 and John 12:48 will occur in the last period of time of this present earth, but they won't occur on the same 24-hour day (Revelation 20:5).
For when Jesus returns, only the church will be bodily resurrected and finally-judged (1 Corinthians 15:21-23, Revelation 20:5; Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; Matthew 25:19-30; 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 12:45-48). The obedient part of the bodily resurrected church, including those in the church who had been beheaded by the Antichrist, will then reign on the earth with the returned Jesus for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21). Only sometime after the 1,000 years and the subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion are over (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39) will the rest of the dead (of all times) be bodily resurrected (Revelation 20:5) and finally-judged at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).
Regarding "resurrection of those who have done good and those who have done evil", are you thinking of John 5:28-29? If so, it wasn't until later (cf. John 16:12) that Jesus showed the apostle John that there will be two (still-unfulfilled) bodily resurrections separated by 1,000 years (Revelation 20:5). John 5:28-29 can include both of these, for the original Greek word translated as "hour" doesn't have to mean a literal hour, but can refer figuratively to any period of time. For example, the last "hour" of 1 John 2:18 (Greek) has been going on for the last 2,000 years. So the "hour" of everyone's still-future bodily resurrection (John 5:28-29) can easily span over a 1,000-year period (Revelation 20:5).
Also, at both the first and 2nd resurrection, some will undergo "the resurrection of life", while others will undergo "the resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29). For the first resurrection, at Jesus' never-fulfilled 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16), before the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6), will be of all those who became Christians (1 Corinthians 15:21-23). And some of them will lose their salvation at the 2nd coming (e.g. Luke 12:45-46), so that their resurrection will be a "resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29), a resurrection "unto shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2), because of such things as unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29), unrepentant laziness (Matthew 25:26,30), or apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8).
The 2nd resurrection, at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), after the future millennium and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15), will include all those of all times who never became Christians, and all those who became Christians during the millennium (Isaiah 66:19-21). At the great white throne judgment, those Christians (of all times) who will lose their salvation, and so will have their names blotted out of the book of life (Revelation 3:5), might be cast into the everlasting punishment of the lake of fire along with all non-Christians (Revelation 20:15,10, Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 14:10-11, Mark 9:45-46).
Regarding 2 Peter 3:10-13, in the day of the Lord will occur the destruction of heaven (the first heaven: the sky, the atmosphere) and the earth (the surface of the earth) at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11, Revelation 21:1). And this will be followed by the creation of a new atmosphere and surface for the earth (2 Peter 3:13, Revelation 21:1) onto which New Jerusalem, God the Father's house (John 14:2, Revelation 21:2-3), will descend from the 3rd heaven (Revelation 21:2-3). But the day of the Lord won't immediately bring the destruction of earth's atmosphere and surface. For the day of the Lord will begin at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8) as a thief (2 Peter 3:10a, Revelation 16:15). And after his 2nd coming, he will establish his kingdom physically on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21).
And after the 1,000 years, the Gog/Magog rebellion will occur (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39). And after its defeat, at least 7 more years will occur (Ezekiel 39:9b), before the earth's atmosphere and surface are destroyed at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11). All these events, from Jesus' 2nd coming to the great white throne judgment, will be part of the day of the Lord. For it's not a 24-hour day, but to God is like a 1,000-year "day" (2 Peter 3:8).
Hi coraline and thank you for the reply.
While I completely disagree that the resurrection happened in 70AD, I can understand that this was an important time in history.
Forgive me if that's not what you're saying, but again, if it is then I completetly disagree.
It is the last day of the one week of millennial days assigned to this present creation, before the great Day, that eighth day, of the New Beginning which begins the eternal days that have no end.Hi Mark and thanks for your reply.
My question concerns the resurrection of the dead. John's gospel appears to speak of the resurrection as being on the last day. Revelation 20 if taken literally (and I do believe that it is a literal thousand years) speaks of the first resurrection and then another resurrection after the thousand years are finished.
So how can John say that it is the last day?
One person told me that a day with the LORD is as a thousand years and that this is what the last day actually means, the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20.
That's why I'm wondering if that's what the Day of the LORD means? I also wonder if that is the same as the Day of Jesus Christ?
Just wondering about stuff like this. I realize that these are difficult things and so I hope that some people will share their thoughts on these things.
I guess it makes sense to me that a Day with the LORD is a thousand years as this is biblical, I just wonder if that's what the majority of believers hold to today. It doesn't necessarily need to be the majority, but rather something that is valid amongst a fairly large group of Christians etc.
Thanks again in Christ Jesus for all your help and thoughts on these things.
OT
Where there is no death, there is no need of a resurrection. We have eternal life and can never die spiritually. Therefore, we don't need a resurrection. At death, we go immediately to heaven in our spiritual body.
WHAT HAPPENS TO US AT DEATH?
Since the resurrection is past, what happens to believers when they die? Their physical body goes back to dust from which it came:
And their spirit is united to their spiritual body and goes to be with the Lord.
So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. (1 Cor. 15:42,43)
The resurrection was a one time event in which the Old Testament saints were brought out of Hades and finally overcame death to be with the Lord. We have put on immortality and will put on our immortal body when we die physically. As believers, we live in the presence of God, and in physical death, we simply drop the flesh and dwell only in the spiritual realm.~ Pastor D. Curtis, Berean Bible Church.
I think I know what's going on here, your denying the bodily resurrection of believers.Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? (Co 15:12)Nonsense, we are absent from the body and present with the Lord. At death the two are separated but in the resurrection they are reunited at the Parosia. We are given a resurrection body like Christ which is what happens when the believer is 'raised'.
All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. (Ecclesiastes 3:20)But someone will say, How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come? Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grainperhaps wheat or some other grain. But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body. (I Cor. 15:35-38)Not so fast, there is more to this passage then you are saying:
Which clearly indicates that the body that had been reduced to dust under the curse is raised (resurrected) not replaced with some mystical spiritual body.
That's simply not what the New Testament teaches:And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body." (Romans 8:23)The redemption of our bodies in the resurrection is inextricably linked to the promise of the GospelAfter that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. (Eph. 1:14)This is a commonly held belief among Theistic Evolutionists which is how I became acquainted with it. Like all of the Modernist rationalizations of traditional Christian theism it is argued vigorously in opposition to the clear teaching of the New Testament witness.
We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. (I Thess. 4:14-16)
The post has all the marks of a cut and paste, boilerplate argument that buries the erroneous doctrine in formatting tags and otherwise sound teachings. Then at the heart of the emphasis it drives home this hopelessly flawed attempt to deprecate and demean traditional Christian theism.
I know what your doing and I'll be seeing you around.
Have a nice day
Mark
It is the last day of the one week of millennial days assigned to this present creation, before the great Day, that eighth day, of the New Beginning which begins the eternal days that have no end.
The beginning was the creation.
Mid-week was the establishment of Israel.
The end of the week began at the incarnation.
The last day, itself, is the Sabbath of earth's millennial week of days, before the New beginning.
This is only one of God's calendars for measuring time in this creation.
He also counts 700 year weeks, as Enoch's dream visions show -and those are on a "stop" for being counted in this Chruch age.
He also counts a Jubilee year as period of seven, seven year periods and one Sabbath after that as 50 weeks which make one Jubilee year, and has assigned 140 Jubilee years to this present creation, before the New Beginning..
He may have other ways to count and measure time, and all like wheels within wheels, and the gears of the universal clock, but I am not aware of them at the moment.
I accept your apology either way O.Timer!
I replied to your O.P. because I saw you asked a question.
I have found that many who would disagree with me do not understand what the Bible terms "the Resurrection." And some never care to open their mind, but rather argue, to anything beyond their usual traditional thinking either.
The Apostle Paul speaks of those of us who have the firstfruits of the Spirit and how that we are waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our bodies.
Feeling too challenged mark?
I'll take what the Bible teaches. You worship what tradition says.
"Denying the 'bodily' resurrection of believers?"
I think you have the flesh, the body and the resurrection all wrong.
The church is the body of Christ, of which He is the head.
Ephesians 1:22-23 says:
You believe that disagreeing with you equates to not understanding the resurrection?
I'll tell you what I do not understand, and that's the mindset which is overly obsessed with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70. Another thing which I don't understand is how some people can think that their own thinking or beliefs trumps all else?
The Apostle Paul speaks of those of us who have the firstfruits of the Spirit and how that we are waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our bodies.
I can't image how you're going to explain that except to think that you'll most likely tell me that I don't understand because I don't agree with you.
The church is the body of Christ. Romans 8:23 doesn't say redemption of our "bodies"
It says the redemption of our "body" not "bodies"
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