The Laodicean Message

Castaway57 · May 7, 2013

I thought I would start this topic to show how the message of Christ to the Church at Laodicea, is in fact a message of hope in Christ for all believers. Some seem to love trying to use this message to condemn the Adventist Church, or some other church of their choosing, yet - it is one of the most hope-filled passages in the Bible for these times we live in.

For this first post; I will conclude with only the Bible passage itself, and we can take it from there.

The first quote is from the ERV translation, and the second is from the KJV

Rev 3:13 Everyone who hears this should listen to what the Spirit says to the churches.
Rev 3:14 "Write this to the angel of the church in Laodicea: "Here is a message from the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of all that God has made.
Rev 3:15 "I know what you do. You are not hot or cold. I wish that you were hot or cold!
Rev 3:16 But you are only warm--not hot, not cold. So I am ready to spit you out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 You say you are rich. You think you have become wealthy and don't need anything. But you don't know that you are really miserable, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked.
Rev 3:18 I advise you to buy gold from me--gold made pure in fire. Then you will be rich. I tell you this: Buy clothes that are white. Then you will be able to cover your shameful nakedness. I also tell you to buy medicine to put on your eyes. Then you will be able to see.
Rev 3:19 "I correct and punish the people I love. So show that nothing is more important to you than living right. Change your hearts and lives.
Rev 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If you hear my voice and open the door, I will come in and eat with you. And you will eat with me.
Rev 3:21 "I will let everyone who wins the victory sit with me on my throne. It was the same with me. I won the victory and sat down with my Father on his throne.
Rev 3:22 Everyone who hears this should listen to what the Spirit says to the churches."

Rev 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

AndrewK788 · May 7, 2013

What's this? A thread that is based solely on Scripture? Breath of fresh air!

I agree with your assessment of the Laedicean message entirely! It is a message of hope. Christ is taking the time to warn His people that where they think they are rich, they are in desperate need. And the thing they are in need of is exactly what Christ has to offer! I get tired of this passage being used as a hammer against particular groups of people. It is my assessment that Christianity as a whole is suffering from this lukewarm stupor--not just Adventism.

To create the pretense that God despises this church is to not read the Bible rightly.

Here's some more Scripture:

"'My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
For whom the Lord loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.'
If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons."

Hebrews 12:5-8

Behold, happy is the man whom God corrects;
Therefore do not despise the chastening of the Almighty.
For He bruises, but He binds up;
He wounds, but His hands make whole."

Job 5:17, 18

Chastening, as the rebuke to the church of Laodicea, is a sign of God's immense and sincere love toward his erring children. A sign of total rejection is no chastening at all. A minister once said that when probation closes we have this perception that it will be a terrifying time of soul-rending terror for those who are lost. In fact, he said, for those who are lost it will probably be a peaceful silence (until the 7 plagues begin of course). After all, no more Holy Spirit attempting to quicken their conscience. We should be thankful for warnings such as this one.

Additionally, in light of some of the criticism I've seen people justify with this verse, here is a Spirit of Prophecy quote that I find quite relevant.

"Satan is 'the accuser of the brethren,' and it is his spirit that inspires men to watch for errors and defects of the Lord's people, and to hold them up to notice, while their good deeds are passed by without a mention." Great Controversy 395

Martinman · May 8, 2013

AndrewK788 said:
What's this? A thread that is based solely on Scripture? Breath of fresh air!

I agree with your assessment of the Laedicean message entirely! It is a message of hope. Christ is taking the time to warn His people that where they think they are rich, they are in desperate need. And the thing they are in need of is exactly what Christ has to offer! ....

"Satan is 'the accuser of the brethren,' and it is his spirit that inspires men to watch for errors and defects of the Lord's people, and to hold them up to notice, while their good deeds are passed by without a mention." Great Controversy 395

Yes indeed

stinsonmarri · May 8, 2013

Even though I agree that all churches have gone astray. The Bible deals with those who have been called. But even those who are chosen by ELOHIM have become somewhat aloof. The Bible is about a message and those who are willing to listen, understand and give the message correctly. They must deliver it as HE says and not the way they want. So every time HE call a people who promise to deliver the message they mess up. They soon forget the promise they made with HIM and then makes excuses. YAHWEH always start with those who you lease expect to be HIS messengers. Take the Canaanites that Noah predicted that they would be servants of servants only to their father's brothers Cush, Punt, and Mizaraim and then just servants to their father's uncles, Shem and Japheth. So they had the only man who was both High Priest and King who build Jerusalem namely Melchizdeck. Now this show truly that YAHWEH is no respect of color, nationality or people because they were black! But they begin to forget and move away from YAHWEH. YAHWEH now turns to one of Shem's children to a man name Abraham. HE tells Abram to go to the land of Canaan. Now why? Well it is simple and the Bible tells you if you take the time to read. Now there were still righteous Canaanites all had not gone bad or sinful. Abram stayed around them but not Lot. Lot wanted to hang with the hip crowd of the day. Little did he know that he get married and his children would become corrupted. Even his two girls that were saved had sex with him and produce problem children. Then those corrupted cities who were warned and saved once before had reach their limit. These cities who knew ELOHIM were the first to be destroyed by ELOHIM'S everlasting fire! Once HE is done HE is DONE!!!! These people have been judged and completely done and gone never to be resurrected again!
YAHWEH told Abraham that the Canaanites would be put on probation 400+ years. While HE who love the Canaanites hoping they would change would also test Abraham's children to become the next call ones. 430 years later the children of Abraham having suffered and ELOHIM has exhausted all HE could for Canaan's children HE needs someone to love and obey HIM. Well these kids on the block had forgotten all their parents or forefathers once knew. They too follow their aggressor's belief and totally forgotten ELOHIM'S Law and Commandments. Chosen was Moses to lead these new recruits back home to the land lost now for the Canaanites. With all the miracles and even their leaders actually seeing the SON of ELOHIM and eating with HIM (how good is that), they also did not die. Read it is there these pigheaded people continually disobey. YAHWEH took them away from the land then some repented others became so delusional but YAHWEH promise HE would return them to the land. But there were so many different sects (are should we say denominations) that who was following YAHWEH? YAHWEH knew that the whole world needed help at this very time. These ungrateful children of Abraham decided that they were so rich or smart. They didn't need of nothing so they would change what HE said. They would make a supper a day like those today make the sacrifices and oblation which are ceremonies, rituals a day! Now how stupid and dumb is that? A day a sacrifice or a supper-wow! Will someone tell me where is the intellect how do a 24 hour period have blood and be killed or how do you eat it. I surely would like to see that! Well Abraham children had to be retaught again and YAHSHUA, YAHWEH'S SON chose a small group to work with. It was hard they fought, they were greedy, unkind to each other and one just shut his mind completely until he killed himself. He too became delusional. Why did he kill himself? He realize to late (the blinders came off his eyes) that actually betrayed the SON of ELOHIM. He lost hope and without hope the soul dies.
Those disciples did not get it until after the MOST HIGH'S SON died and was resurrected. But YAHSHUA still had to teach them for forty days so they could get the extra oil! Well they got it and a light bulb came on and wow thousands of hungry souls were save in one day! But sad to say as time went on and YAHWEH wanted all of Adam's children to come back to HIM things again change for the worst. YAHWEH wanted Japheth children to be save. Ham and Shem had their chance.
The Gentiles the next new kids on the block begin to accept ELOHIM. But they too wanted to keep their old ideas. They also had one major problem they felt they should and could rule everyone and felt that they rule all the great kingdoms of the world. White was pure and all other colors were not! They enslaved anyone that did not have their color they called white. When one cannot truly love your brother you will not love the MOST HIGH. Yet, a chosen group was selected and given gifts to lead them back to the Bible. Because of these special gifts they got beside themselves placing one gift receiver equal or above the Bible. The person even said: "Hey I do not have the gift of receiving something that has not be shown before." I am show how what was shown before has been overlooked or misunderstood." But the new chosen said: "Hey we got it all and know it you can't tell us what to do. We got the whole plan for Redemption and Salvation. We are so bad we can take you to Heaven ourselves." "Look to us we will give you words to believe. If you don't you are nothing but the scum of the earth. We curse you because you can only be saved in my house!"
Well the FATHER said I am going to choose one more time. This small group will do what I asked. They will awake and read, and listen, and pray, and repent and be sorry, and humble themselves. They will adhere to MY Words and they will bring all the others from all types of religions and non-religions after MY and MY SON'S Wrath are poured out on this dying earth. They will receive the power of the HOLY SPIRIT and bring in a great multitude. But the others will be shock because they have become so delusional. They thought they were casting out devils and doing great works in the FATHER'S Name. But you see they were not because they didn't truly even know HIS NAME!

Blessing,
stinsonmarri

JDMiowa · May 9, 2013

stinsonmarri said:
Even though I agree that all churches have gone astray. The Bible deals with those who have been called. But even those who are chosen by ELOHIM have become somewhat aloof. The Bible is about a message and those who are willing to listen, understand and give the message correctly. They must deliver it as HE says and not the way they want. So every time HE call a people who promise to deliver the message they mess up. They soon forget the promise they made with HIM and then makes excuses. YAHWEH always start with those who you lease expect to be HIS messengers. Take the Canaanites that Noah predicted that they would be servants of servants only to their father's brothers Cush, Punt, and Mizaraim and then just servants to their father's uncles, Shem and Japheth. So they had the only man who was both High Priest and King who build Jerusalem namely Melchizdeck. Now this show truly that YAHWEH is no respect of color, nationality or people because they were black! But they begin to forget and move away from YAHWEH. YAHWEH now turns to one of Shem's children to a man name Abraham. HE tells Abram to go to the land of Canaan. Now why? Well it is simple and the Bible tells you if you take the time to read. Now there were still righteous Canaanites all had not gone bad or sinful. Abram stayed around them but not Lot. Lot wanted to hang with the hip crowd of the day. Little did he know that he get married and his children would become corrupted. Even his two girls that were saved had sex with him and produce problem children. Then those corrupted cities who were warned and saved once before had reach their limit. These cities who knew ELOHIM were the first to be destroyed by ELOHIM'S everlasting fire! Once HE is done HE is DONE!!!! These people have been judged and completely done and gone never to be resurrected again!
YAHWEH told Abraham that the Canaanites would be put on probation 400+ years. While HE who love the Canaanites hoping they would change would also test Abraham's children to become the next call ones. 430 years later the children of Abraham having suffered and ELOHIM has exhausted all HE could for Canaan's children HE needs someone to love and obey HIM. Well these kids on the block had forgotten all their parents or forefathers once knew. They too follow their aggressor's belief and totally forgotten ELOHIM'S Law and Commandments. Chosen was Moses to lead these new recruits back home to the land lost now for the Canaanites. With all the miracles and even their leaders actually seeing the SON of ELOHIM and eating with HIM (how good is that), they also did not die. Read it is there these pigheaded people continually disobey. YAHWEH took them away from the land then some repented others became so delusional but YAHWEH promise HE would return them to the land. But there were so many different sects (are should we say denominations) that who was following YAHWEH? YAHWEH knew that the whole world needed help at this very time. These ungrateful children of Abraham decided that they were so rich or smart. They didn't need of nothing so they would change what HE said. They would make a supper a day like those today make the sacrifices and oblation which are ceremonies, rituals a day! Now how stupid and dumb is that? A day a sacrifice or a supper-wow! Will someone tell me where is the intellect how do a 24 hour period have blood and be killed or how do you eat it. I surely would like to see that! Well Abraham children had to be retaught again and YAHSHUA, YAHWEH'S SON chose a small group to work with. It was hard they fought, they were greedy, unkind to each other and one just shut his mind completely until he killed himself. He too became delusional. Why did he kill himself? He realize to late (the blinders came off his eyes) that actually betrayed the SON of ELOHIM. He lost hope and without hope the soul dies.
Those disciples did not get it until after the MOST HIGH'S SON died and was resurrected. But YAHSHUA still had to teach them for forty days so they could get the extra oil! Well they got it and a light bulb came on and wow thousands of hungry souls were save in one day! But sad to say as time went on and YAHWEH wanted all of Adam's children to come back to HIM things again change for the worst. YAHWEH wanted Japheth children to be save. Ham and Shem had their chance.
The Gentiles the next new kids on the block begin to accept ELOHIM. But they too wanted to keep their old ideas. They also had one major problem they felt they should and could rule everyone and felt that they rule all the great kingdoms of the world. White was pure and all other colors were not! They enslaved anyone that did not have their color they called white. When one cannot truly love your brother you will not love the MOST HIGH. Yet, a chosen group was selected and given gifts to lead them back to the Bible. Because of these special gifts they got beside themselves placing one gift receiver equal or above the Bible. The person even said: "Hey I do not have the gift of receiving something that has not be shown before." I am show how what was shown before has been overlooked or misunderstood." But the new chosen said: "Hey we got it all and know it you can't tell us what to do. We got the whole plan for Redemption and Salvation. We are so bad we can take you to Heaven ourselves." "Look to us we will give you words to believe. If you don't you are nothing but the scum of the earth. We curse you because you can only be saved in my house!"
Well the FATHER said I am going to choose one more time. This small group will do what I asked. They will awake and read, and listen, and pray, and repent and be sorry, and humble themselves. They will adhere to MY Words and they will bring all the others from all types of religions and non-religions after MY and MY SON'S Wrath are poured out on this dying earth. They will receive the power of the HOLY SPIRIT and bring in a great multitude. But the others will be shock because they have become so delusional. They thought they were casting out devils and doing great works in the FATHER'S Name. But you see they were not because they didn't truly even know HIS NAME!

Blessing,
stinsonmarri

You claim to quote the Bible, but don't give any ch. and verses.

Castaway57 · May 9, 2013

AndrewK788 said:
What's this? A thread that is based solely on Scripture? Breath of fresh air!

I agree with your assessment of the Laedicean message entirely! It is a message of hope. Christ is taking the time to warn His people that where they think they are rich, they are in desperate need. And the thing they are in need of is exactly what Christ has to offer!

God loves His Church; and His people, everywhere. The Bible calls it "an everlasting love." And when I read this Laodicean message, there are two things that jump out at me right away.

1/ This is a message, primarily, of hope in Christ

2/ Jesus calls us "gold" before we are perfect. Which of course some will always take special delight in telling us of

I will come back to those two points in the next post, but for this one; I wanted to share yet, another Bible version of this delightful passage of scripture. This is called The Net Version

14 To the angel of the church in Laodicea write the following:
This is the solemn pronouncement of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the originator of Gods creation:

15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot!

16 So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I am going to vomit you out of my mouth!

17 Because you say, I am rich and have acquired great wealth, and need nothing, but do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked,

18 take my advice and buy gold from me refined by fire so you can become rich! Buy from me white clothing so you can be clothed and your shameful nakedness will not be exposed, and buy eye salve to put on your eyes so you can see!

19 All those I love, I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent!

20 Listen! I am standing at the door and knocking! If anyone hears my voice and opens the door I will come into his home and share a meal with him, and he with me.

21 I will grant the one who conquers permission to sit with me on my throne, just as I too conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.

22 The one who has an ear had better hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Verse 20 also has a special appeal to me, and I think that as a church; we can have real joy and hope in this amazing part of the Laodicean message! This is first and always a message of Hope in Christ! praise the Lord!

stinsonmarri · May 10, 2013

Noah's quote to Canaan - Gen 9:25-27,
Lot moving to Sodom and Gomorrah - Gen 13:10
Sodom and Gomorrah take captive, final warning by ELOHIM - Gen14:1-11
Abraham returns with booty and Lot! - Gen 14:16
Melchizedek the only High Priest and King builder of Jerusalem known as it abbreviated name Salem. A Jebusites and a black man comes from Ham -Gen 14:18-20

The priest-king of Salem joins the king of Sodom in welcoming Abram. In the days of Abram, Jerusalem was known as Salem, or Shalem, peace, or security (see Ps. 76:2). The city of Jerusalem is first attested in Egyptian records of the 19th century B.C., and was then ruled by Amorite kings. Jerusalem means city of peace, and Melchizedek, my king is righteous or King of righteousness, as the name is interpreted in, Heb. 7:2. While Sodoms king came to meet Abram with the purpose of obtaining the release of his subjects (Gen. 14:21), Melchizedek came to bless the victorious commander. SDA Bible Commentary, Vol.1, p. 308

The Hebrew Bible describes the Jebusites as dwelling in the mountains, besides Jerusalem. (Numbers 13:29; Joshua 11:3) times. . . .
The Books of Kings state that once Jerusalem had become an Israelite city, the surviving Jebusites were forced by Solomon to become serfs; though since some archaeologists believe that the Israelites were simply an emergent subculture in Canaanite society, it is possible that this is an etiological explanation for serfs than a historically accurate one. It is unknown what ultimately became of these Jebusites, but it seems logical that they were assimilated by the Israelites. According to the "Jebusites Hypothesis however, the Jebusites persisted as inhabitants of Jerusalem and comprised an important faction in the Kingdom of Judah, including such notables as Zadok the priest, Nathan the prophet, and Bathsheba, the queen and mother of the next monarch, Solomon. Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ELOHIM tells Abraham that HE is giving probation to the Canaanite for 400 year+ - Gen 15:13

ELOHIM tells Abraham the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah - Gen 18:17-22

Abraham pleads for those who might be righteous in the cities - Gen 18:23-32

Abraham and Sarah stay and both tell a lie to one of the righteous nations in Canaan - Gen 20

You should know all of text about Israel I hope now to the Gentile or Indo-Europeans Japheth descendants:

ELOHIM tells Isaiah it time to reach the Gentiles - Isa 49:6, 66:19; Rom 3:29,

The call for the 144,000 - Matt 25: 1-13; Rev 7 and 14

I hope this is satisfactory if I miss something that you need proof in the Scripture just point it ok.

Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri

Castaway57 · May 11, 2013

Castaway57 said:
God loves His Church; and His people, everywhere. The Bible calls it "an everlasting love." And when I read this Laodicean message, there are two things that jump out at me right away.

1/ This is a message, primarily, of hope in Christ

Verse 20 also has a special appeal to me, and I think that as a church; we can have real joy and hope in this amazing part of the Laodicean message! This is first and always a message of Hope in Christ! praise the Lord!

Says the true Witness, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock." Every warning, reproof, and entreaty in the Word of God, or through His delegated messengers, is a knock at the door of the heart; it is the voice of Jesus, asking for entrance. This is why I find the Laodicean message one of such hope and inspiration. It shows us how God cares.

With every knock unheeded, our determination to open that door becomes weaker and weaker. If the voice of Jesus is not heeded at once, it becomes confused in the mind with a multitude of other voices, the world's care and business engross the attention, and conviction dies away. The heart becomes less impressible, and lapses into a touch-and-go state of mind regarding the shortness of time, and of the great eternity beyond.

Through His "everlasting love;" Jesus reaches out; He knocks on the door to our hearts, and we have the free will to choose, or not to choose to open. Make your choice today for Jesus, is the heart of the Laodicean Message for todays generation.

JDMiowa · May 11, 2013

Castaway57 said:
Says the true Witness, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock." Every warning, reproof, and entreaty in the Word of God, or through His delegated messengers, is a knock at the door of the heart; it is the voice of Jesus, asking for entrance. This is why I find the Laodicean message one of such hope and inspiration. It shows us how God cares.

With every knock unheeded, our determination to open that door becomes weaker and weaker. If the voice of Jesus is not heeded at once, it becomes confused in the mind with a multitude of other voices, the world's care and business engross the attention, and conviction dies away. The heart becomes less impressible, and lapses into a touch-and-go state of mind regarding the shortness of time, and of the great eternity beyond.

Through His "everlasting love;" Jesus reaches out; He knocks on the door to our hearts, and we have the free will to choose, or not to choose to open. Make your choice today for Jesus, is the heart of the Laodicean Message for todays generation.

True, there is hope the Laodicean Church will repent, but like you said, the longer this last day Church waits the harder there heart gets.

Castaway57 · May 11, 2013

JDMiowa said:
True, there is hope the Laodicean Church will repent, but like you said, the longer this last day Church waits the harder there heart gets.

Thats not true. As long as one is alive, there is hope in Christ. (Eccl 9:4) One can choose to look at the faults, or one can choose to strengthen "that which remains." (Rev 3:2)

JDMiowa · May 11, 2013

Castaway57 said:
Thats not true. As long as one is alive, there is hope in Christ. (Eccl 9:4) One can choose to look at the faults, or one can choose to strengthen "that which remains." (Rev 3:2)

History teaches once a church is,"establish" change does not come easy.

stinsonmarri · May 11, 2013

The whole church will not be saved. The Bible clearly teaches of the wheat and the tare inside the church. The Bible also shows that only a few are chosen when many are called. The church will fall and the chosen ones will finish the work and bring in souls from all other denominations, devil worshipers, non religious folks, other religions. All of these folks together with the chosen ones are the remnant. No church is named because all churches have fail even the last one!

Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri

David Conklin · May 18, 2013

stinsonmarri said:
The whole church will not be saved. The Bible clearly teaches of the wheat and the tare inside the church. The Bible also shows that only a few are chosen when many are called. The church will fall and the chosen ones will finish the work and bring in souls from all other denominations, devil worshipers, non religious folks, other religions. All of these folks together with the chosen ones are the remnant. No church is named because all churches have fail even the last one!

Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri

Revelation 18:4 ¶ And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Castaway57 · May 19, 2013

JDMiowa said:
History teaches once a church is,"establish" change does not come easy.

Not really; there are many sincere believers in many churches who will not hesitate to "change" once they both know and understand truth.

Castaway57 · May 19, 2013

stinsonmarri said:
The church will fall
Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri

Not according to the Bible; or to the spirit of prophecy, or to official Adventist teachings. Individuals in a church who "fail" do not make the whole church a failure.

Mat_16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus promises that the "gates of hell" will NOT prevail over the Church, and the official Adventist teaching on that reads thus:

The church is the community of believers who confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. In continuity with the people of God in Old Testament times, we are called out from the world; and we join together for worship, for fellowship, for instruction in the Word, for the celebration of the Lord's Supper, for service to all mankind, and for the worldwide proclamation of the gospel. The church derives its authority from Christ, who is the incarnate Word, and from the Scriptures, which are the written Word. The church is God's family; adopted by Him as children, its members live on the basis of the new covenant. The church is the body of Christ, a community of faith of which Christ Himself is the Head. The church is the bride for whom Christ died that He might sanctify and cleanse her. At His return in triumph, He will present her to Himself a glorious church, the faithful of all the ages, the purchase of His blood, not having spot or wrinkle, but holy and without blemish.-Fundamental Beliefs, 12

It is interesting to note how Ellen White gives the scriptural view on this:

Satan will work his miracles to deceive; he will set up his power as supreme. The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place. None but those who have been overcoming by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony will be found with the loyal and true, without spot or stain of sin, without guile in their mouths. {Mar 32.5}
God declares that even a mother may forget her child, "yet will I not forget thee." . . . God thinks of His children with the tenderest solicitude and keeps a book of remembrance before Him, that He may never forget the children of His care. {Mar 32.6}

The servant of the Lord is in total agreement with scripture on this subject

rainbowinthesky · May 20, 2013

Jesus said, "The children of the kingdom will be cast out." Matt.8:12.

In other words,

"Of those who boast of their light, and yet fail to walk in it, Christ says, 'But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum {Seventh-day Adventists, who have had great light, which art exalted unto Heaven (in point of privilege)}, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shalt be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.'" E.G. White, Review & Herald, August 1,1893.

How can one read the above and still claim that all is well with this denomination is beyond me. We are repeating the history of Ancient Israel who boasted of their knowledge and that they would always be exalted as the true church. They defied earth and heaven to dispossess them of their rights while they were preparing for the condemnation of Heaven and for separation from God. See C.O.L.294,304.

sky

rainbowinthesky · May 20, 2013

The laodicean message: You say you are rich and increased with good and in need of nothing. Now that is the spiritual condition of the professed people of God which is the condition of the world as a whole and that includes all the other denominations and religions.

"Are you in Christ? Not if you do not acknowledge yourselves erring, helpless, condemned sinners." E.G. White, 1893 General Conference Bulletin, 178.

The problem with Laodicea is that of unbelief. The Laodicean would have it that if he is in Christ he no longer needs to confess that he is erring, helpless, condemned sinner, that he no longer needs to confess, day by day, moment by moment, that he is wretched, poor, miserable, blind, and naked.

But the truth of the matter is that he is not in Christ if he is no longer acknowledging all these things on a daily basis.

If you do not believe what I have just stated I will post excerpts from the lectures that brother Jones gave at the 1893 General Conference on the Laodicean message which lectures were a repeat of the lectures he gave at Minneapolis in 1888.

"The message given by A.T. Jones and E.J. Waggoner is the message of God to the Laodicean church." E.G. White, Letter 5-24, 1892.

sky

Castaway57 · May 20, 2013

rainbowinthesky said:
The laodicean message: You say you are rich and increased with good and in need of nothing. Now that is the spiritual condition of the professed people of God which is the condition of the world as a whole and that includes all the other denominations and religions.

"Are you in Christ? Not if you do not acknowledge yourselves erring, helpless, condemned sinners." E.G. White, 1893 General Conference Bulletin, 178.

The problem with Laodicea is that of unbelief. The Laodicean would have it that if he is in Christ he no longer needs to confess that he is erring, helpless, condemned sinner, that he no longer needs to confess, day by day, moment by moment, that he is wretched, poor, miserable, blind, and naked.

But the truth of the matter is that he is not in Christ if he is no longer acknowledging all these things on a daily basis.

If you do not believe what I have just stated I will post excerpts from the lectures that brother Jones gave at the 1893 General Conference on the Laodicean message which lectures were a repeat of the lectures he gave at Minneapolis in 1888.

"The message given by A.T. Jones and E.J. Waggoner is the message of God to the Laodicean church." E.G. White, Letter 5-24, 1892.

sky

What you say is the Laodicean Message, and what the Bible tells us it is are two different messages. Adventists do not follow Jones & Waggoner. They follow the Bible.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

There are those, such as yourself who want to play everyone a funeral dirge with your doom and gloom message of naughty sinners who all need to be "set straight;" but in the Bible; in this very message; Jesus puts right in the middle of it His plain declaration of His great love for us; He gives us hope, and promise of guidance and revelation of The Holy Spirit. He understands our weakness and our sinful state; yet the Laodicean message is constantly portrayed in such negative condemning ways. Just dont come here and say thats what Adventists teach unless you can use the Bible first, as their official beliefs would tell you to do.

rainbowinthesky · May 21, 2013

No comment on these Woody?

Jesus said, "The children of the kingdom will be cast out." Matt.8:12.

In other words,

"Of those who boast of their light, and yet fail to walk in it, Christ says, 'But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum {Seventh-day Adventists, who have had great light, which art exalted unto Heaven (in point of privilege)}, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shalt be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.'" E.G. White, Review & Herald, August 1,1893.

rainbowinthesky · May 21, 2013

"The message given by A.T. Jones and E.J. Waggoner is the message of God to the Laodicean church." E.G. White, Letter S-24, 1892.

Brother Jones repeated the 1888 Laodicean message during the 1893 General Conference. Here are a few excerpts:

"Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." John 9:41.

When Jesus tells you and me we are blind, (Rev.3:17) the thing for us to do is to say, "Lord, we are blind." He told those folks they were blind, and they were blind; but they said it was not so. It was so. Well, then, brethren, the thing for us to do is to come square up to that Laodicean message, and say that every word He says is so!

When He says you and I are wretched, tell him, "It is so, I am wretched; miserable, it is so, I am miserable; poor, it is so; I am poor, a perfect beggar, I shall never be anything else in the world; blind, I am blind, and shall never be anything else; naked, that is so; and I do not know it; that is so too. I do not know it at all, as I ought to know it." (1 Cor.8:2)

And then I will say to Him every day and every hour, "Lord, that is all so; but, oh, instead of my wretchedness, give me Thine own satisfaction; instead of my misery, give me Thine own comfort; instead of my poverty, supply all Thine own riches; instead of my blindness, be Thou my sight; instead of my nakedness, oh do Thou clothe me with Thine own righteousness; and what I know not, Lord, teach Thou me."

Brethren, when we come with one heart and one mind to that place, we shall have no difficulty at all in repenting. It will not be difficult to repent, and there will be no lack of repentance. The difficulty about our not being able to repent is that we have not confessed that what the Lord has told us is the truth." A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C. Bulletin, p.186, 187

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