The Jewish and Civil clocks, and their relation to the Saros { eclipse } cycle

[Isaacsname]

I figure since this is the section for things that have no appropriate forum, and I see no section for Mesopotamian metrology or astronomy, I'll post it here.

Feel free to move if needed

So, right to the point

The modern Jewish calendar { Derived by Hillel II from Babylonian ephemeris } and the Civil calendar have a very interesting relationship

This is to the Saros cycle { The Same Saros seen in the Greek Antikythera mechanism }

A Saros { Greek } is from the Babylonian " Saru " { 3600 } and is the time t takes for the Sun, Earth and Moon to return to the same relative positions in a straight line

Our regular civil clock has 86,400 seconds to the day

The Jewish clock { for calendar purposes } uses 25,920 parts to the day

These are known as " chelekim " { Plural of chelek } and based on the Babylonian measure of the Barleycorn { the " she " }

Now, eclipse periodicity is notoriously hard to calculate, yet the Babylonians were able to calculate it { and other cycles } to a fraction of a second

The length of the Saros is approximately 223 synodic months (approximately 6585.3211 days, or 18 years, 11 days, 8 hours

Note: It's not an integer number of days

You need 1 / 3rd of a day to correctly predict the Saros { 8 hours }

The ratio between the units for a day in the Jewish and World Civil clock is

25,920 / 86,400 = .3

 

[Rick Otto]

Not sure what to make of this.

 

[Isaacsname]

Well, the numbers in the last book of the Bible { 144,000 and 666 } are taken from a set of calculations for these astronomical events

These are based on Molads { Births of the Moon } which we use the Synodic month for { The average Synodic length ]

The basis of this system comes out of Babylonia, so it's a combination of Sumerian, Chaldean, Akkadian etc, astronomy and mathematics, in this case it's out of a base 60 system

This in turn forms the basis of many things in the Bible { That is, the entire area of Mesopotamian metrology }

Unless one understands that mathematics, commerce, astronomy and agriculture were all one single discipline in the ancient world, it's quite perplexing

Even to think that time in modern mathematics is a single variable " T " or " t ", whereas in ancient times it was a single grain of Barleycorn that had multiple uses as a fundamental unit , serving to calculate things like : time, angles, degrees of celestial rotation, length

Like:

The " garden of Eden " is based on the Babylonian measurement for a garden called a " Sar ", which is 36 square meters which is based on the sum of all numbers from 1 to 36 { 666 }

Adam and Eve are allegory for the Sun and the metonic cycle, the serpent refers to the Draconitic month, a month length used to calculate eclipses, when the ancients considered a giant serpent or dragon that lived in the poles of earth to eat the Sun or Moon during an eclipse

I've spent several years deconstructing their metrology after studying the Hebrew calendar, as this is it's basis, hence why some holidays are separated by lengths of time based on either precessionary length or aphelion / perihelion distances, for example

Have the preachers who were so knowledgeable about topics like " blood moons " and " shmita " not delved sufficiently into these topics ?

I thought the ancient Babylonian gods " Sin " { The Moon } and " Shamash " { The Sun } were part of these topics

I've not seen what people in the forums discussed in the past few months

 

[Isaacsname]

Hi there

 

[Isaacsname]

I guess I have to throw a bone out here

Let's take another gander at these most infamous of numbers { 144,000 and 666 }

My " claim " is that they are taken from ancient astronomical calculations used to predict eclipses

Here's one way in which I can prove this { and I have many many ways to prove my work }

144,000 / 666 = 216.216216216...

144,000 / 216 = 666.666666666...

Multiplying this number 144,000 by six gives us the Sun's approximate diameter : 144,000 x 6 = 864,000

Multiplying this number 216 by 10 gives us the Moon's approximate diameter : 216 x 10 = 2,160

864,000 / 2,160 = 400

The reason we see the phenomenon of eclipses is because the Sun and Moon appear the same size in the sky { relatively }

This means:

The Sun is ~ 400 times the size of the Moon, and ~ 400 times the distance from the Earth as the Moon

864,000 / 2,160 = 400

Now, since the verses speak of being " sealed ", we need to examine the Judaic custom of this " sealing "

Sealing a Covenant is done by pressing a mark into wax, called a " Tav "

The " Tav " is the last letter in the Hebrew alphabet

Traditionally it is taught to be:

God's seal of truth { emet }
A sign { in the sky }
A mark { like the Tav was used in the OT }

In ancient times this letter was branded on animals like goats and sheep

The value of the Tav is : 864,000 / 2,160 = 400

That's because the numbers are from exactly what I say

 

[Isaacsname]

So, I posted the link to this thread on another thread stating I can prove things about the Bible using math

Because, as you are aware, math is how we prove things objectively true

I know how much you love truth too, so I look forward to your discussions { I hope you like math }

Now, being that these numbers are taken from the system of astronomical calculations, we would expect there to be a quite robust system of mathematics in the Bible that covers all the appropriate topics, like

Perihelion / aphelion distances
Perigee / apogee distances
Libration
Stellar precession
Apsidal precession
Eclipse years
Solar years
Lunar years
Luni-solar years
Stellar years { AKA Plato's year }
Intercalation { between all three calendars }

And more

There is, but where would we start ?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Not sure what to make of this.

Well, at least I ain't the only one.........

Well, the numbers in the last book of the Bible { 144,000 and 666 } are taken from a set of calculations for these astronomical events

These are based on Molads { Births of the Moon } which we use the Synodic month for { The average Synodic length ]


Have the preachers who were so knowledgeable about topics like " blood moons " and " shmita " not delved sufficiently into these topics ?

I've not seen what people in the forums discussed in the past few months

I would think that would interest the Jews rather than non-Jewish Christians.
However, there are quite a few topics on "blood moons" on CF which appear to be concerning the future end times I think......

https://www.google.com/#q=blood+moons+christianforums+site:www.christianforums.com

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/is-there-significance-to-the-blood-moons.7910180/
Is there significance to the blood moons?

Not all of us buy into the idea that the blood moons have any significance other than as a regular astronomical natural phenomenon. I for one view all this talk about connecting the blood moons with end times as only so much superstition. They really aren't red to begin with. How about you? What do you think? Any other skeptics besides me and Contra?

.

 

[Isaacsname]

Yes, you are merely stating the obvious, since they { blood moons } are not really significant

What is significant is the topic of the thread and what it has to do with the Bible in general

 

[Isaacsname]

It's said that no man or angel or even the son knows when Jesus will return, only the father in heaven

It's a true statement, imo

Let's consider the story of Isaac Newton, the last person to really deeply examine the entire bible with math

Isaac Newton would have done well to consider " only the father in heaven knows the day" when he was trying to predict the day Jesus would return { Maybe logic was not his best subject }

Newton was studying the alphanumeric substitution known as " gematria "

It's not really common knowledge that Newton spent most of his time studying the Bible and gematria { as academia considers it somewhat of a " black mark " } but, the gravitational constant Newton is credited for came out of his studies of the Bible

How ?

Well, Newton was studying the numbers in the Bible and gematria

The mathematics of gematria is based on Mesopotamian mathematical astronomy regarding the 3 body system of the Sun, Earth and Moon

What it was not based on was circular orbits, yet the math seems to imply the use of a circle

As we know, orbits are elliptical, not circular

Newton would try to predict when and where an eclipse would happen and he was wrong, every time

He couldn't figure it out { What he didn't understand at the time was gravity }

The clincher here is that Newton actually gave up working on this problem for 14 years

Most people have this idea that the laws of gravitation just fell out of Newton's head fully formed, and this could not be further from the truth

In Newton's era, concepts like " time " and " gravity " were being hotly debated, one of the nastiest rivalries was between Robert Hooke and Isaac Newton

Hooke sent Newton a letter one day { after Newton had spent 14 years not working on the problem } suggesting that there was a force that varied with the square of the distance and was based on the focii of two bodies, one orbiting the other

This was led Newton to " discover calculus " and " invent gravity "

But what he actually did was rip it off out of the mathematics of gematria in the Bible, which is based on Mesopotamian metrology

He didn't invent calculus, he merely modified the Babylonian calculus of fractions

Now, obviously a circle is not an ellipse

Yet, there is no need to use an elliptical orbit when you are deriving a calendar, you simply use intercalation

Intercalation is the adding of a sum to correct of synchronize two things

The month of " Adar " is the extra month added into the Jewish calendar to synchronize to the solar year { producing the Luni-solar calendar }

Adar { the month of darkness } is added 7 times in 19 years

Now, Meton of Greece was given credit for the calculation of this intercalation cycle , but it was actually known in Babylonia

You cannot accurately predict the eclipse cycles without the " Metonic " correction { Adar }

Now, the question is:

" Does Adar have anything to do with the numbers in the Book of Revelation ? "

 

[Isaacsname]

Well, yes, yes it does

I'm going to use one of these goofy " end times " pics that was thrust in my face repeatedly

Below, in the goofy pic, we see that this particular eclipse was marked out by none other than the intercalary month of Adar

This was, according to a few people, the date of the rapture

Goodness gracious almighty, I never sausage a thing, have you ?

Now, one of the reasons they used these numbers in the last book of the Bible is that they refer to Adar, in the following way

144,000 / 216 = 666.666...
144,000 / 666 = 216.216...

Anybody with a little mathematical acumen realizes that 216 is merely the cube of 6, or

The digit product of 666 : dp{666} = 216

666 is not really that much of an interesting number, mathematically it's known as a " repunit " { repeating unit }

The sum of the repunits { 111,222,333,444,555,666,777,888,999 } are what provide the mathematical basis for the gematria Newton was so enthralled with { In Hebrew and Greek }

This is because they are part of the set of astronomical calculations that the numbers 144,000 and 666 are taken from

Most people would have you believe things like " 888 is Jesus's number " and " XYZ is so-and-so's number " but it's nowhere near as cut and dry as you'd like it to be

So back to Adar and these numbers

144,000 / 216 = 666.666...
144,000 / 666 = 216.216...

We know that is we multiply 666 by 216, it's exactly 144 shy of 144,000

{ 216 x 666 } + 144 = 144,000

Well, little did you guys know, that Adar is the 144th word in the concordance { Strong's Hebrew 144 }

The reason for this congruence between the alphabetical order of Biblical Hebrew and the numbers in the last book of the Bible, I won't delve into right now, as it's a little complex for the average reader { Involving something known as an " injective function " }

Now, Isaac was not an idiot, by far, he was probably much more inquisitive than the average person would think, and there were several things he did that came out of his Bible studies that are also little known:

~ He sent John Graves to Egypt to measure the dimensions of the Great Pyramid, as he was convinced that it contained the secret to the " sacred cubit " , and this would finally allow him to be able to calculate the arrival of Jesus Christ

The paper they produced was titled { I have linked it for you }

" A Dissertation upon the Sacred Cubit of the Jews and the cubits of several nations "

Naturally they failed, for quite a few reasons that need not be addressed

~ He set about trying to derive Pi, as he was convinced it also contained something that had to do with gematria

He made it to 15 digits.....that effort petered out eventually

I will cover the reasons for both these odd gestures by Newton, and also why he was doomed to fail at his endeavors

Next I want to address the fact we can actually derive Saros periodicity from Newton's laws

What this means, essentially, is that " Newton's laws " are not really Newton's at all, but rather belong to the ancients in Mesopotamia

Here is the paper

How can we say this ? { That the ancients understood there was a force like gravity }

To answer this, we need to examine the Biblical " prophetic year " length of 360 days, and where exactly it comes from

As clarified in the opening post, these systems of keeping time are quite ancient

The Jewish calendar day of 25,920 chelekim is based on the precessionary length of 25,920 years { of 360 days }

Yet, the lunar and solar calendars are not 360 days

The reason for this is quite simple, deceptively simple actually

A circle is not an ellipse

You see, precessionary wobble is circular

That's the basis of the 25,920 year precession length { circular motion }

The Earth's orbit is not circular

This presents the incredibly unique challenge of synchronizing all three calendars

The math of one is circular, the math of one is not

This is where intercalation comes in

but yet, there is time

How do we derive our units ?

The equation of motion for a pendulum says we need the gravitational constant

 

[Rick Otto]

I'm diggin' it.

 

[Rick Otto]

The only wrench I could throw at this comes from a research psychologist R.D.Laing.
He questions the objectivity of what we consider objective. This problem is also approached in the observer effect in physics.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer_effect_(physics)

 

[joshua 1 9]

Now, eclipse periodicity is notoriously hard to calculate, yet the Babylonians were able to calculate it { and other cycles } to a fraction of a second

The 24 day began when night began. Just how do you know to the second when twilight ends and the day (night) begins. It seems to me that a day should begin at sunrise, not sunset.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Isaacsname]

Let's examine this, then we'll look at how they did this in ancient times

T { time } = two pi x the square root of the ratio between the acceleration due to gravity { g } and the length { L } of the pendulum

This period we use for our modern clock is roughly 2 metric seconds { That's the time it takes for the pendulum to swing back and forth one time }

So we use a second as one swing { half the full period }, giving us 86,400 periods to the day, to the civil clock

In Mesopotamia they decided { at some point, maybe way past pre-Sargonic era, we'll explore this a little too } to derive standard units , what we call " SI " units in the modern day

They used a pendulum too, but before we look at how, we should look at how they chose the length of the string

This is crucial to the period

The secret is really no secret at all, although metrology is humorously considered the " dark arts ' { as many people have no clue how the units they do math with are derived }

This is what is at the heart of their metrology

Barley { Barleycorn }

This is what is the basis for the Modern Jewish calendar, but here's how the ancients used it

~ As it is a unit used for celestial rotation { circular } to divide the night sky by a circle

~ As a length for the pendulum, 360 grains

~ as a counter for days in the month, using what was called the " hand " measurement

One month in the earth year was represented by 30 grains held in the hand { x 12 months = 360 days }

This in turn was the basis of celestial coordinates { Recall a Saru = 3600 }

Please do keep in mind the Biblical statements about " signs in the sky ", you'll soon understand

So this was the congruence for them:

Now we are considering the Lunar, Solar and Stellar calendars and the intercalation { synchronization } between them

What better way than to base it on the heavenly bodies ?

The word " synod " comes from the Greek "σύνοδος" ( synodos ) meaning "assembly" or " meeting " { You may recognize this from church gatherings }

In this case it is because the Synodic month is how we make the two seperate calendars " meet "

Now this was all a brilliant system of metrology in ancient Mesopotamia

Each finger on your hand could be used to calculate every inch of the moon's movement across the night sky in arc seconds

The reasons for this doesn't just have to do with the necessity of mathematics in large scale farming to sustain population growth in the Fertile Crescent,...

.... they are integral to Biblical eschatology { Barley is one of the seven crops of the promised land } but that's a different discussion, this is primarily about math

Somebody did say something about math, iirc

Now, the best thing about this system of mathematics, { as you'll soon see } is that it's based on something you cannot refute

When I say " you ", I mean anybody

So let's think about several statements, I will address them in my next post

~ One is that there are " seven " seals { Tav } that are said to be opened in the Book of Revelation

~ Two is that we are discussing a very important time that is only known to God

 

[joshua 1 9]

Well, little did you guys know, that Adar is the 144th word in the concordance { Strong's Hebrew 144 }

Adar is only used once: "Ezr 6:15 And this house was finished on the third day of the month Adar, H144 which was in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king." This tells you all you need to know about when Jesus is going to return. When His Bride is ready, when the house is finished. It is interesting that the third day is considered to be a part of the 6th year when the third day is actually the 7th year. We will not be here for the 7 year tribulation period. Darius the king of course has a role in the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem.

 

[Isaacsname]

The 24 day began when night began. Just how do you know to the second when twilight ends and the day (night) begins. It seems to me that a day should begin at sunrise, not sunset.

[/QUOTE]

Ok, good point, let's explore it

The 24 hour day is an idealized quantity { There are actually not quite 24 hours in the day }

For religious purposes, time in Judaism is called halachic time { zmanim} and is based on the appearance of three stars in the night sky { The exact luminosity is discussed in the Talmud, iirc }

This is completely different than the calendar based on the Chelek { the Barleycorn }, as it's got no set daylength

The standard 24 hour day is used for several reasons

It's used because it's what works with a system of rotation that is based on Pi x the radian { for rotation }

The 24 hour day is like the ideal sphere that's used in mapmaking { A Mercator projection for example } and the ancient concept of the " celestial sphere " that became absorbed into the Babylonian pantheon of " gods " { Skypivot, Earthpivot, etc }, it's obviously not the real thing, but we use it and apply corrections { What intercalation is }

It's used for it's for some very important things pertaining to gematria { and thus prophecy }

As far as math and objective truth

That objective truth is found with math is just a coincidence, imo, it's just what happens to work the best

It firmly divides symbolic and natural languages { But this is perhaps a different conversation for a different thread }

So, anyway, it's very important to make the distinction between astronomical time and calendar time { this trips folks up for some reason }

The calendar is based on single days

While the Astronomical year is 365.25 days, we don't have a day number 365.25 on the calendar, it's either 365 or 366 days

The .25 of a day is added in the leap { .25 x 4 = 1 }

The ancient prime meridian was actually in Giza, where the Great Pyramid is { In modern times at Royal Observatory in Greenwich Village in the UK }

The Great Pyramid is actually based on the center of earth's landmass, using a modern day Mercator projection { which the grid is shifted 30 degrees down and 30 over } , but the impossibility of this is that the " center " in this case is based on the average land height on earth, so it's ...mind-boggling to say the least

anyway

Math is what works the best to describe the world around us, that's why mathematicians have maintained { some toungue-in-cheek ] that God's language is mathematics

See Wigner's essay

" The unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics in the natural sciences "

 

[joshua 1 9]

they are integral to Biblical eschatology { Barley is one of the seven crops of the promised land } but that's a different discussion, this is primarily about math

I would be interested in the seven crops. I have some books here written by the leading experts on the domestication of plants in the middle east. Not really all that interesting, but science does line up with the Bible in their knowledge regarding the neolithic revolution.

 

[joshua 1 9]

As far as math and objective truth

That objective truth is found with math is just a coincidence, imo, it's just what happens to work the best

It firmly divides symbolic and natural languages { But this is perhaps a different conversation for a different thread }

I have a friend that is a machinist and he works on a 3 million dollar machine. The tolerance is within a millionth. The problem is that the heating air conditioning system is not that good and not that consistent. Of course metal expands and shrinks based on the temperature. So this can cause a lot of problems for him. I remember in gas stations the gasoline can expand and shrink. So they have to take that into consideration when they measure what is in the tanks.

The ancient prime meridian was actually in Giza, where the Great Pyramid is { In modern times at Royal Observatory in Greenwich Village in the UK }

I have heard stories of watch repairman that would ride the train to Greenwich to adjust their watch so that they would know the correct time to adjust the watches they were working on. Before quartz of course and before they used the radio signal for the atomic clock.

Now our phone is tired into the atomic clock so we all know the exact correct time.

 

[Isaacsname]

Joshua:

The traditionally taught seven crops of the promised land are taken from the verse of Deuteronomy 8:8

" A land of wheat, and barley, and vines, and fig trees, and pomegranates; a land of oil olive, and honey; "

1. Wheat
2. Barley
3. Vines
4. Figs
5. Pomegranates
6. Olives
7. Honey

However, barley is the one crop in this list that is quite special. It's a topic I don't want to dive into right now, but I will give you this to ponder:

" Hear O' Israel, the Lord our God is One " Deuteronomy 6:4

This is the daily Jewish prayer, called the " Shema "

In Egypt, " barley " is " šma " (hypothetically pronounced " SHE-ma ") refers to Upper Egyptian barley and is a symbol of Upper Egypt

As you see, it's phonetically cognate { the name of the Shema prayer and the Egyptian name for barley }

The Shema also contains two rabbati letters that spell " witness " { Also off topic, but perhaps in another thread }

It also makes use of the Hebrew word " echad " { One }, which has been a topic of debate for years

The reason it uses a word which refers to the number One, is this:

I'm getting ahead of myself though, so I'll end this post here

Thanks for the inquiry

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I have a great barley loaf recipe! Also off topic m'bad ....