The insect kinds

AV1611VET said:

Again, I wasn't there. When this was first proposed (by you?), the first thing that came to my mind was what Wiccan Child said, that they survived outside of the Ark. But in view of the fact that God said, "and the creeping thing," I have to believe they died in the Flood.

[bible]Genesis 6:7[/bible]

Like I said, I wasn't there, but I know this: the Ark was three stories high. If you treat these stories as dimensions, instead of floors, you could get 500 quintillion animals aboard the Ark with 500 quintillion space left over.

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That is 500,000,000,000,000,000,000 animals

AV1611VET said:

Again, I wasn't there. When this was first proposed (by you?), the first thing that came to my mind was what Wiccan Child said, that they survived outside of the Ark. But in view of the fact that God said, "and the creeping thing," I have to believe they died in the Flood.

[bible]Genesis 6:7[/bible]

Like I said, I wasn't there, but I know this: the Ark was three stories high. If you treat these stories as dimensions, instead of floors, you could get 500 quintillion animals aboard the Ark with 500 quintillion space left over.

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Photo of the inside of the arc's control room

Molal said:

That is 500,000,000,000,000,000,000 animals

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With 500,000,000,000,000,000,000 space left over!

(Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit --- ya think?)

AV1611VET said:

With 500,000,000,000,000,000,000 space left over!

(Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit --- ya think?)

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Well, I suppose if Noah was a timelord and did have a TARDIS then it would not be that difficult to believe.

CACTUSJACKmankin said:

It's not about fitting the animals on the ark it's how the animals evolved after they left the ark, whether it was micro,macro,or hyper.

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I've already explained that macro violates Scriptural boundaries; hyper I'm not familiar with; and micro is plausible. All of these beetle "kinds" could have comfortably fit on the Ark.

pgp_protector said:

Photo of the inside of the arc's control room...

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It was the Ark --- not the Jupiter II.

Molal said:

Well, I suppose if Noah was a timelord and did have a TARDIS then it would not be that difficult to believe.

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Noah was just a man like you and me --- nothing more --- nothing less. He did, however, incur the grace of the LORD.

[bible]Genesis 6:8[/bible]

AV1611VET said:

It was the Ark --- not the Jupiter II.

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And that's not from Jupiter II

(Remember you brought up the multi dimensional vessel)

CACTUSJACKmankin said:

for purposes of this point im not quarrelling that a few hundred kinds can fit on the ark. im quarrelling that those few hundred can become a few hundred thousand varieties in a short time unless evolution is faster than macroevolution. There is a solution to this and it is evolution.

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Nope --- like I said, every kind of beetle, and much, much more could have fit on the Ark, with plenty of room to spare. In fact, the entire population of the world, will all the animals, birds, etc. could have easily fit.

pgp_protector said:

And that's not from Jupiter II

(Remember you brought up the multi dimensional vessel)

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Time And Relative Dimension In Space (TARDIS)

Not Jupiter II

Molal said:

Time And Relative Dimension In Space (TARDIS)

Not Jupiter II

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OIC --- I kinda thought it was a private joke --- thanks for the info.

AV1611VET said:

Again though, Sky, we weren't there to observe what happened.

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Oh, I agree with you.
I'm just answering someone else's question.
If they survived the flood without the ark, that was a method.

Frankly, I think people who try so hard to discredit the Ark are silly.

When they hear "kinds" or "type" they assume, "2 hefers, 2 black angus, 2 jersey." God, however, may have been saying, "two calves".

People like to assume they know when the flood and Noah supposedly lived. The old, "the earth is 6,000 year old," theory based on Biblical Geneology. However - - people who do that are using a modern calendar and the bible's references to "years" and "age" without pausing to consider a few facts biblical historians know.

Often when the bible refers to time in phrases like "days" or "years" or "generations" they are talking "periods of time that have certain characteristics" and not "24 hours" or "4 seasons" or "decades".

A day may be the rising and setting of the son.
A day also might be "any period of time with a specific beginning and a specific ending, that seems to be a period of darkness to light to darkness again."
And it may not mean "sunshine" light, rather "knowledge" light.

A year could be "spring, summer, fall, winter," or it could be a collection of seasons. as in 365 modern years, as opposed to 365 days.

We know they did that when writing the bible because of the events we CAN trace through non-Jewish historical documents. Sometimes the prophets will write, "In 7 years this will happen," and when you pull out history documents, you discover it happened, exactly like the prophets said, but it was "70" of our years, not 7. And then you check, and you find that time after time after time, 7 then equals 70 now. And you go, "Hmm. I see a pattern here."

Given that we really don't know exactly what method of reporting time was accurate, we don't know when the flood took place.

Given that we don't know when the flood took place, we don't know that micro-evolution didn't have enough time to turn 2 beetles into 500,000 beetles.

We also don't know that God considers there to be 500,000 beetles. That's a label by mankind that is actually very new to mankind.

As early as 3,000 years ago we had "dogs" and no AKC to say, "That dog is this kind, and that dog is this kind."

CACTUSJACKmankin said:

but only the basal kinds went onto the ark, not the countless varieties we see today.

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If there are 350,000 species of beetles today, stemming from 300,000 "kinds," then that means that at least 300,000 pairs of beetles boarded the Ark, and then afterward, only had to produce 50,000 species in the 4500 years since then.

If there are 350,000 species of beetles today, stemming from 349,000 "kinds," then that means that at least 349,000 pairs of beetles boarded the Ark, and then afterward, only had to produce 1 species in the 4500 years since then.

Do the math.

TexasSky said:

Frankly, I think people who try so hard to discredit the Ark are silly.

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I hear ya, sis! And I totally agree!

AV1611VET said:

I hear ya, sis! And I totally agree!

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Too true. Everyone knows his name wasn't Noah, but Utnapishtim. His story is unassailable.