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The Inquisition

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davidoffinland

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Wondering if Roman Catholicism and the Papacy ever repented of the Inquisition? I know they offer an apology, but that is not repentance. Take a look at theis latest streaming video on the Inquisiton. It is about 45 plus minutes long so it will be better to link as favorite to view later. Go to:

http://www.bereanbeacon.org

In Him, david.
 

Trento

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Wondering if Roman Catholicism and the Papacy ever repented of the Inquisition? I know they offer an apology, but that is not repentance. Take a look at theis latest streaming video on the Inquisiton. It is about 45 plus minutes long so it will be better to link as favorite to view later. Go to:

http://www.bereanbeacon.org

In Him, david.



The Myth of the Inquisition," a 1994 BBC/A&E( not known to be bias torward the Catholic Church or any Religion for that matter) production, will re-air on the History Channel this May It is a definite must-see for anyone who wishes to know how historians now evaluate the Spanish Inquisition since the opening of an investigation into the Inquisition's archives. The special includes commentary from historians whose studies verify that the tale of the darkest hour of the Church was greatly fabricated.
In its brief sixty-minute presentation, "The Myth of the Inquisition" provides only an overview of the origins and debunking of the myths of torture and genocide. The documentary definitely succeeds in leaving the viewer hungry to know more. The long-held beliefs of the audience are sufficiently weakened by the testimony of experts and the expose of the making of the myth.



The Inquisition began in 1480. Spain was beginning a historic reunification of Aragon and Castile. The marriage of Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Castile created a unified Hispania not seen since Roman times. Afraid that laws commanding the exile or conversion of Jews were thwarted by conversos, i.e. synagogue-going "Catholics," Ferdinand and Isabella commissioned an investigation or Inquisition.
They began the Inquisition hoping that religious unity would foster political unity, and other heads of state heralded Spain's labors for the advent of a unified Christendom. The documentary clearly and boldly narrates the historical context, which intimates that the Spanish were not acting odd by their contemporary standards.

The Inquisition Myth, which Spaniards call "The Black Legend," did not arise in 1480. It began almost 100 years later, and exactly one year after the Protestant defeat at the Battle of Mühlberg at the hands of Ferdinand's grandson, the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V. In 1567 a fierce propaganda campaign began with the publication of a Protestant leaflet penned by a supposed Inquisition victim named Montanus. This character (Protestant of course) painted Spaniards as barbarians who ravished women and sodomized young boys. The propagandists soon created "hooded fiends" who tortured their victims in horrible devices like the knife-filled Iron Maiden (which never was used in Spain). The BBC/A&E special plainly states a reason for the war of words: the Protestants fought with words because they could not win on the battlefield.
The Inquisition had a secular character, although the crime was heresy. Inquisitors did not have to be clerics, but they did have to be lawyers. The investigation was rule-based and carefully kept in check. And most significantly, historians have declared fraudulent a supposed Inquisition document claiming the genocide of millions of heretics.

As the program documents, the 3,000 to 5,000 documented executions of the Inquisition pale in comparison to the 150,000 documented witch burnings elsewhere in Europe over the same centuries.

The approach is purely historical, and therefore does not delve into ecclesial issues surrounding religious freedom. But perhaps this is proper. Because the crime was heresy, the Church is implicated, but the facts show it was a secular event
 
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Sorry, but there was more than just the "Spanish Inquesition".

How about the Inquesition that was rampant throughout Europe?

It's due to the Inquesition that we have the phrase, "Men in Black" as it was Catholic Priests dressed in black clothes that carried out the inquesition, and people in villages would say "the men in black are here".
 
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DeaconDean

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To the best of my knowledge, the Inquisition has never stopped, only changed names.

From:

Holy Office of the Inquisition

to:

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) (Congregatio pro Doctrina Fidei)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Office_of_the_Inquisition

Also recorded here:

http://www.cwnews.com/news/biosgloss/definition.cfm?glossID=32

Even the Catholic Encyclopedia admits that the early beginnings of the Inquisition began as far back as Paul's day.

"Though the Apostles were deeply imbued with the conviction that they must transmit the deposit of the Faith to posterity undefiled, and that any teaching at variance with their own, even if proclaimed by an angel of Heaven, would be a culpable offense, yet St. Paul did not, in the case of the heretics Alexander and Hymeneus, go back to the Old Covenant penalties of death or scourging (Deuteronomy 13:6 sqq.; 17:1 sqq.), but deemed exclusion from the communion of the Church sufficient (1 Timothy 1:20; Titus 3:10). In fact to the Christians of the first three centuries it could scarcely have occurred to assume any other attitude towards those who erred in matters of faith. Tertullian (Ad. Scapulam, c. ii) lays down the rule:

Humani iuris et naturalis potestatis, unicuique quod putaverit colere, nec alii obest aut prodest alterius religio. Sed nec religionis est religionem colere, quae sponte suscipi debeat, non vi.​
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08026a.htm

And some of the earliest beginnings of the Inquisition can be seen around 1000:

"About the year 1000 Manichæans from Bulgaria, under various names, spread over Western Europe. They were numerous in Italy, Spain, Gaul and Germany. Christian popular sentiment soon showed itself adverse to these dangerous sectaries, and resulted in occasional local persecutions, naturally in forms expressive of the spirit of the age. In 1122 King Robert the Pious (regis iussu et universae plebis consensu), "because he feared for the safety of the kingdom and the salvation of souls" had thirteen distinguished citizens, ecclesiastic and lay, burnt alive at Orléans. Elsewhere similar acts were due to popular outbursts. A few years later the Bishop of Châlons observed that the sect was spreading in his diocese, and asked of Wazo, Bishop of Liège, advice as to the use of force: "An terrenae potestatis gladio in eos sit animadvertendum necne" ("Vita Wasonis", cc. xxv, xxvi, in P. L., CXLII, 752; "Wazo ad Roger. II, episc. Catalaunens", and "Anselmi Gesta episc. Leod." in "Mon. Germ. SS.", VII, 227 sq.). Wazo replied that this was contrary to the spirit of the Church and the words of its Founder, Who ordained that the tares should be allowed to grow with the wheat until the day of the harvest, lest the wheat be uprooted with the tares; those who today were tares might to-morrow be converted, and turn into wheat; let them therefore live, and let mere excommunication suffice. St. Chrysostom, as we have seen, had taught similar doctrine. This principle could not be always followed. Thus at Goslar, in the Christmas season of 1051, and in 1052, several heretics were hanged because Emperor Henry III wanted to prevent the further spread of "the heretical leprosy." A few years later, in 1076 or 1077, a Catharist was condemned to the stake by the Bishop of Cambrai and his chapter. Other Catharists, in spite of the archbishop's intervention, were given their choice by the magistrates of Milan between doing homage to the Cross and mounting the pyre. By far the greater number chose the latter. In 1114 the Bishop of Soissons kept sundry heretics in durance in his episcopal city. But while he was gone to Beauvais, to ask advice of the bishops assembled there for a synod the "believing folk, fearing the habitual soft-heartedness of ecclesiastics (clericalem verens mollitiem), stormed the prison took the accused outside of town, and burned them."

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08026a.htm

Beginning in or around the 1200's, the Inquisition had its roots and early beginnings:

"Curiously enough, torture was not regarded as a mode of punishment, but purely as a means of eliciting the truth. It was not of ecclesiastical origin, and was long prohibited in the ecclesiastical courts. Nor was it originally an important factor in the inquisitional procedure, being unauthorized until twenty years after the Inquisition had begun. It was first authorized by Innocent IV in his Bull "Ad exstirpanda" of 15 May, 1252, which was confirmed by Alexander IV on 30 November, 1259, and by Clement IV on 3 November, 1265. The limit placed upon torture was citra membri diminutionem et mortis periculum -- i.e, it was not to cause the loss of life or limb or imperil life. Torture was to applied only once, and not then unless the accused were uncertain in his statements, and seemed already virtually convicted by manifold and weighty proofs. In general, this violent testimony (quaestio) was to be deferred as long as possible, and recourse to it was permitted in only when all other expedients were exhausted. Conscientious and sensible judges quite properly attached no great importance to confessions extracted by torture. After long experience Eymeric declared: Quaestiones sunt fallaces et inefficaces -- i.e the torture is deceptive and ineffectual."

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08026a.htm

So as far as I know, the office still exists.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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Sorry, but there was more than just the "Spanish Inquesition".

How about the Inquesition that was rampant throughout Europe?

It's due to the Inquesition that we have the phrase, "Men in Black" as it was Catholic Priests dressed in black clothes that carried out the inquesition, and people in villages would say "the men in black are here".


In Europe...

For 500 years there were about 1,500 people put to death. There was the court of the King and the court of the church. People would try to get their case sent to the church since they knew they had a better chance.

The King's court put to death 1,500 people in 500 years. This works out to 3 people a year. This is what the King did in order to keep the peace.

I am certain if you look at the amount of people that die from the death penalty in Texas alone it will be higher than 3 a year.

But when you speak of the Inquisition and are quick to throw the Catholic church in the mix you should also be aware that Protestant churches had their own inquisitions and they were no better.

The Spanish Inquisition (in my humble opinion) was purely a bit of politics in the name of religion.


You bet. The Queen was a bit deceitful...
 
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davidoffinland

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I had to check out what Orthodoxy said about the inquisition at their site.

Quote: Chrisitanity gradually transformed into humanism; the God-Man diminished, and has been narrowed, and finally reduced to a man, to the infallible man in Rome, and the equally infallible... The rest of the article can be read at:

www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/papism.aspx

I did not find any other articles directily relating to the inquisition.

In Him, david.
 
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davidoffinland

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I posted this topic in the Orthodox forum and the moderator wrote that the inquisition happen in the Western Church way after the East and Western split.

Read abit in Philip Schaff´s "History of the Church" Vol 6, Chap 7, para 60 and quoting:

Pope Sixtus IV who was then occupying the chair of St Peter, did not hesitate in a matter so importand, and on Nov 1 1478 issued the bull sanctioning the fell Spanish tribunal. It authorized the Spanish sovereigns to appoint three bishops or other ecclesiastic to proceed against heretics and at the same time empowered them to remove and replace these officials as they thought fit.

and further down Schaff continues:

The interesting question has been warmly discussed, whether the Inquisition of Spain was a papal institution or an institution of the state, and the attempt has been made to lift the responsiblility for its organization and administration from the supreme pontiff. The answer is,that it was predominantly an ecclesiastical institution, created by the authority of Sixtus IV and continuously supported by pontifical sanction. On the other hand, its establishment was sought after by Ferdinand and Isabella, and its operations, after the papal authorization had been secured, was under the control of the Spanish sovereign. So far as we know, the popes never uttered a word in protest aginst the inhuman measures which were practised by the Spanish tribunals.
unquote

It may interest those who live in the EU that the Papacy is influencing some "Christian" (i.e. Roman Catholic ideals) into the so-called christian influences in amemdments,etc of the EU...i.e. the Rome Cahtolic and Papacy should be the only recognized Christian organization in Western Europe. Read the following 12 pages at:

http://www.sourcedevie.com/html/A043a-rome.european-union.htm

In Him, david.
 
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LamorakDesGalis

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The OP video and website claim that 50 million died in the Inquisition. This has no factual basis, especially when one compares the estimated population of Europe during the late medieval times.

During the 1800s, a number of books and sources were written that for various reasons) exaggerated and fabricated aspects of the Spanish Inquisition. In recent decades though, study of many of the historic documents associated with the inquisition (not just Spanish) have shed light on what really happened.

The numbers are pretty much in line with what ActionJack has said. For the Spanish Inquisition, capital punishment - burning - was initially 40% of those convicted in the early years. Thereafter it dropped to 1% a year. In numbers, about 2,000 died in the early years of the Spanish Inquisition, then about 3,000 more in the remaining 300 years. This is the rate of about 3 a year, which is what ActionJack said. Certainly the inquisition had no impact on population movements or displacement.

The "power" of the inquisition was very limited. First, the inquisition was only appointed in areas in which heresy was rampant. Second, the inquisition itself did not have coercive powers. Instead they depended entirely on the cooperation of secular authorities and the people. If the secular authorities or the people refused to cooperate, then the inquisition did very little. In other areas, people attempted to denounce their neighbors for personal gain or revenge. Usually denouncement was in terms of charging them with witchcraft. The inquisitors dismissed most of these charges of witchcraft.

Most of the time, the inquisition handed out punishment involving penance. The secular authorities on the other hand, typically handed out more severe punishment than the inquisitors for the same crimes.

Also, the inquisition was at times under control by certain secular authorities. In France King Philip extended his control over the inquisition. Then Philip charged the Templars with heresy, and used the inquisitors to torture the leaders and extract confessions from the Templars. And that is how Philip gained the wealth and lands of the Templars.


LDG
 
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setmeonfire

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Most of the time, the inquisition handed out punishment involving penance

true. when priests tried to seduce women in the confessional they remanded them to so sort of act penance, yet to preach the gospel outside the authority of the pope meant death. or to translate and print copies of the bible like william tyndale did also meant a trip to the stake....
("papal conspiracies and protestantism defended" by edward beecher 1855)

and the secular authorities which were supposedly the ones to enforce more harsh punishments were only able to be in power by the authority of the pope!

This has no factual basis, especially when one compares the estimated population of Europe during the late medieval times.

this is an exert from an email to me from a former roman catholic priest....
From the birth of Popery in 600, to the present time, it is estimated by careful and credible historians, that more than fifty million of the human family, have been slaughtered for the crime of heresy by popish persecutors, an average of more than forty thousand religious murders for every year of the existence of Popery.

No computation can reach the numbers who have been put to death, in different ways, on account of their maintaining the profession of the Gospel, and opposing the corruption of the Church of Rome. A million of poor Waldenses perished in France; nine hundred thousand orthodox Christians were slain in less than thirty years after the institution of the order of the Jesuits. The Duke of Alva boasted of having put to death in the Netherlands, thirty-six thousand by the hand of the common executioner during the space of a few years. The Inquisition destroyed, by various tortures, one hundred and fifty thousand within thirty years. These are a few specimens, and but a few, of those which history has recorded; but the total amount will never be known till the earth shall disclose her blood, and no more cover her slain.” Scott’s Church History quoted in John Dowling, The History of Romanism (Classic Reprints No. 57, Pensacola, FL: Vance Publications, 2002; originally published 1845) Book 8 Ch. 1, p. 542)

 
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LamorakDesGalis

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true. when priests tried to seduce women in the confessional they remanded them to so sort of act penance, yet to preach the gospel outside the authority of the pope meant death. or to translate and print copies of the bible like william tyndale did also meant a trip to the stake....
("papal conspiracies and protestantism defended" by edward beecher 1855)

Edward Beecher's conspiracy theories and anti-catholic materials have long been discredited. He basically repeated earlier false accusations, as shown in this short history of Anti-catholic literature. So he's definitely not a reliable source.

and the secular authorities which were supposedly the ones to enforce more harsh punishments were only able to be in power by the authority of the pope!

The above assertion is not true. Its a contradiction in terms to assert that medieval secular authorities derived their power from being appointed by an ecclesiastical authority. It also ignores the reality of medieval history...

this is an exert from an email to me from a former roman catholic priest....
From the birth of Popery in 600, to the present time, it is estimated by careful and credible historians, that more than fifty million of the human family, have been slaughtered for the crime of heresy by popish persecutors, an average of more than forty thousand religious murders for every year of the existence of Popery.


One wonders exactly who are these "careful and credible historians" who estimate 50 million dead. Especially since the real historians who do write books on the Inqusition don't even come close to that figure. The estimated total living population for Europe in the 1300s was around 50 million. So to say that many died being persecuted by the pope is just not a credible estimate, much less relying on actual facts.


LDG

 
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churchmilitant

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The Inquisition



Sooner or later, any discussion of apologetics with Fundamentalists will address the Inquisition. To non-Catholics it is a scandal; to Catholics, an embarrassment; to both, a confusion. It is a handy stick for Catholic-bashing, simply because most Catholics seem at a loss for a sensible reply. This tract will set the record straight.

There have actually been several different inquisitions. The first was established in 1184 in southern France as a response to the Catharist heresy. This was known as the Medieval Inquisition, and it was phased out as Catharism disappeared.

Quite separate was the Roman Inquisition, begun in 1542. It was the least active and most benign of the three variations.

Separate again was the infamous Spanish Inquisition, started in 1478, a state institution used to identify conversos—Jews and Moors (Muslims) who pretended to convert to Christianity for purposes of political or social advantage and secretly practiced their former religion. More importantly, its job was also to clear the good names of many people who were falsely accused of being heretics. It was the Spanish Inquisition that, at least in the popular imagination, had the worst record of fulfilling these duties.

The various inquisitions stretched through the better part of a millennia, and can collectively be called "the Inquisition."


The Main Sources


Fundamentalists writing about the Inquisition rely on books by Henry C. Lea (1825–1909) and G. G. Coulton (1858–1947). Each man got most of the facts right, and each made progress in basic research, so proper credit should not be denied them. The problem is that they did not weigh facts well, because they harbored fierce animosity toward the Church—animosity that had little to do with the Inquisition itself.

The contrary problem has not been unknown. A few Catholic writers, particularly those less interested in digging for truth than in diffusing a criticism of the Church, have glossed over incontrovertible facts and tried to whitewash the Inquisition. This is as much a disservice to the truth as an exaggeration of the Inquisition’s bad points. These well-intentioned, but misguided, apologists are, in one respect, much like Lea, Coulton, and contemporary Fundamentalist writers. They fear, while the others hope, that the facts about the Inquisition might prove the illegitimacy of the Catholic Church.


Don’t Fear the Facts


But the facts fail to do that. The Church has nothing to fear from the truth. No account of foolishness, misguided zeal, or cruelty by Catholics can undo the divine foundation of the Church, though, admittedly, these things are stumbling blocks to Catholics and non-Catholics alike.

What must be grasped is that the Church contains within itself all sorts of sinners and knaves, and some of them obtain positions of responsibility. Paul and Christ himself warned us that there would be a few ravenous wolves among Church leaders (Acts 20:29; Matt. 7:15).

Fundamentalists suffer from the mistaken notion that the Church includes only the elect. For them, sinners are outside the doors. Locate sinners, and you locate another place where the Church is not.

Thinking that Fundamentalists might have a point in their attacks on the Inquisition, Catholics tend to be defensive. This is the wrong attitude; rather, we should learn what really happened, understand events in light of the times, and then explain to anti-Catholics why the sorry tale does not prove what they think it proves.


Phony Statistics


Many Fundamentalists believe, for instance, that more people died under the Inquisition than in any war or plague; but in this they rely on phony "statistics" generated by one-upmanship among anti-Catholics, each of whom, it seems, tries to come up with the largest number of casualties.

But trying to straighten out such historical confusions can take one only so far. As Ronald Knox put it, we should be cautious, "lest we should wander interminably in a wilderness of comparative atrocity statistics." In fact, no one knows exactly how many people perished through the various Inquisitions. We can determine for certain, though, one thing about numbers given by Fundamentalists: They are far too large. One book popular with Fundamentalists claims that 95 million people died under the Inquisition.

The figure is so grotesquely off that one immediately doubts the writer’s sanity, or at least his grasp of demographics. Not until modern times did the population of those countries where the Inquisitions existed approach 95 million.

Inquisitions did not exist in Northern Europe, Eastern Europe, Scandinavia, or England, being confined mainly to southern France, Italy, Spain, and a few parts of the Holy Roman Empire. The Inquisition could not have killed that many people because those parts of Europe did not have that many people to kill!

Furthermore, the plague, which killed a third of Europe’s population, is credited by historians with major changes in the social structure. The Inquisition is credited with few—precisely because the number of its victims was comparitively small. In fact, recent studies indicate that at most there were only a few thousand capital sentences carried out for heresy in Spain, and these were over the course of several centuries.


What’s the Point?


Ultimately, it may be a waste of time arguing about statistics. Instead, ask Fundamentalists just what they think the existence of the Inquisition demonstrates. They would not bring it up in the first place unless they thought it proves something about the Catholic Church. And what is that something? That Catholics are sinners? Guilty as charged. That at times people in positions of authority have used poor judgment? Ditto. That otherwise good Catholics, afire with zeal, sometimes lose their balance? All true, but such charges could be made even if the Inquisition had never existed and perhaps could be made of some Fundamentalists.

Fundamentalist writers claim the existence of the Inquisition proves the Catholic Church could not be the Church founded by our Lord. They use the Inquisition as a good—perhaps their best—bad example. They think this shows that the Catholic Church is illegitimate. At first blush it might seem so, but there is only so much mileage in a ploy like that; most people see at once that the argument is weak. One reason Fundamentalists talk about the Inquisition is that they take it as a personal attack, imagining it was established to eliminate (yes, you guessed it) the Fundamentalists themselves.


Not "Bible Christians"


They identify themselves with the Catharists (also known as the Albigensians), or perhaps it is better to say they identify the Catharists with themselves. They think the Catharists were twelfth-century Fundamentalists and that Catholics did to them what they would do to Fundamentalists today if they had the political strength they once had.

This is a fantasy. Fundamentalist writers take one point—that Catharists used a vernacular version of the Bible—and conclude from it that these people were "Bible Christians." In fact, theirs was a curious religion that apparently (no one knows for certain) came to France from what is now Bulgaria. Catharism was a blend of Gnosticism, which claimed to have access to a secret source of religious knowledge, and of Manichaeism, which said matter is evil. The Catharists believed in two gods: the "good" God of the New Testament, who sent Jesus to save our souls from being trapped in matter; and the "evil" God of the Old Testament, who created the material world in the first place. The Catharists’ beliefs entailed serious—truly civilization-destroying—social consequences.

Marriage was scorned because it legitimized sexual relations, which Catharists identified as the Original Sin. But fornication was permitted because it was temporary, secret, and was not generally approved of; while marriage was permanent, open, and publicly sanctioned.

The ramifications of such theories are not hard to imagine. In addition, ritualistic suicide was encouraged (those who would not take their own lives were frequently "helped" along), and Catharists refused to take oaths, which, in a feudal society, meant they opposed all governmental authority. Thus, Catharism was both a moral and a political danger.

Even Lea, so strongly opposed to the Catholic Church, admitted: "The cause of orthodoxy was the cause of progress and civilization. Had Catharism become dominant, or even had it been allowed to exist on equal terms, its influence could not have failed to become disastrous." Whatever else might be said about Catharism, it was certainly not the same as modern Fundamentalism, and Fundamentalist sympathy for this destructive belief system is sadly misplaced.


The Real Point


Many discussions about the Inquisition get bogged down in numbers and many Catholics fail to understand what Fundamentalists are really driving at. As a result, Catholics restrict themselves to secondary matters. Instead, they should force the Fundamentalists to say explicitly what they are trying to prove.

However, there is a certain utility—though a decidedly limited one—in demonstrating that the kinds and degrees of punishments inflicted by the Spanish Inquisition were similar to (actually, even lighter than) those meted out by secular courts. It is equally true that, despite what we consider the Spanish Inquisition’s lamentable procedures, many people preferred to have their cases tried by ecclesiastical courts because the secular courts had even fewer safeguards. In fact, historians have found records of people blaspheming in secular courts of the period so they could have their case transferred to an ecclesiastical court, where they would get a better hearing.

The crucial thing for Catholics, once they have obtained some appreciation of the history of the Inquisition, is to explain how such an institution could have been associated with a divinely established Church and why it is not proper to conclude, from the existence of the Inquisition, that the Catholic Church is not the Church of Christ. This is the real point at issue, and this is where any discussion should focus.

To that end, it is helpful to point out that it is easy to see how those who led the Inquisitions could think their actions were justified. The Bible itself records instances where God commanded that formal, legal inquiries—that is, inquisitions—be carried out to expose secret believers in false religions. In Deuteronomy 17:2–5 God said: "If there is found among you, within any of your towns which the Lord your God gives you, a man or woman who does what is evil in the sight of the Lord your God, in transgressing his covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have forbidden, and it is told you and you hear of it; then you shall inquire diligently [note that phrase: "inquire diligently"], and if it is true and certain that such an abominable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring forth to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing, and you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones."

It is clear that there were some Israelites who posed as believers in and keepers of the covenant with Yahweh, while inwardly they did not believe and secretly practiced false religions, and even tried to spread them (cf. Deut. 13:6–11). To protect the kingdom from such hidden heresy, these secret practitioners of false religions had to be rooted out and expelled from the community. This directive from the Lord applied even to whole cities that turned away from the true religion (Deut. 13:12–18). Like Israel, medieval Europe was a society of Christian kingdoms that were formally consecrated to the Lord Jesus Christ. It is therefore quite understandable that these Catholics would read their Bibles and conclude that for the good of their Christian society they, like the Israelites before them, "must purge the evil from the midst of you" (Deut. 13:5, 17:7, 12). Paul repeats this principle in 1 Corinthians 5:13.

These same texts were interpreted similarly by the first Protestants, who also tried to root out and punish those they regarded as heretics. Luther and Calvin both endorsed the right of the state to protect society by purging false religion. In fact, Calvin not only banished from Geneva those who did not share his views, he permitted and in some cases ordered others to be executed for "heresy" (e.g. Jacques Gouet, tortured and beheaded in 1547; and Michael Servetus, burned at the stake in 1553). In England and Ireland, Reformers engaged in their own ruthless inquisitions and executions. Conservative estimates indicate that thousands of English and Irish Catholics were put to death—many by being hanged, drawn, and quartered—for practicing the Catholic faith and refusing to become Protestant. An even greater number were forced to flee to the Continent for their safety. We point this out to show that the situation was a two-way street; and both sides easily understood the Bible to require the use of penal sanctions to root out false religion from Christian society.

The fact that the Protestant Reformers also created inquisitions to root out Catholics and others who did not fall into line with the doctrines of the local Protestant sect shows that the existence of an inquisition does not prove that a movement is not of God. Protestants cannot make this claim against Catholics without having it backfire on themselves. Neither can Catholics make such a charge against Protestants. The truth of a particular system of belief must be decided on other grounds.


NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004

IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted.
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004

:amen:
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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From Finland.

Wondering if Roman Catholicism and the Papacy ever repented of the Inquisition? I know they offer an apology, but that is not repentance. Take a look at theis latest streaming video on the Inquisiton. It is about 45 plus minutes long so it will be better to link as favorite to view later. Go to:

http://www.bereanbeacon.org

In Him, david.
the inquistion is still going on in most countries, so what would repentance be ?
 
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Rick Otto

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Part Three: The Menhir-Spearing God
By Matthew Rossi


August 28, 2005
"When attempting to untangle the Gordian Knot of the Cathar heresy and those figures most tied up in suppressing it (figures like Hildegard of Bingen, St. Bernard of Clairvaux, St. Dominic, Popes from Eugenius to Innocent III to Honorius III and beyond, the infamous Simon de Montfort) we find ourselves in a welter of motivations and possible contradictions. Obviously the Kings of France, resurgent under Philip Augustus, sought to unify the French-speaking lands held by the Kings of England and the powerful lords of Languedoc under direct royal rule, and the Capetians would be ultimately successful in dispossessing the Plantagenet King John and his nephew Otto IV, Holy Roman Emperor, of their European lands. So powerful would France become that eventually the Papacy itself would be split, half-dancing in Avignon to a royal French tune while the other half struggled on in Italy, a dance of pope and antipope. If the fact that two popes stared at each other across the divide of southern France, what was once Languedoc, in a parody of Ahriman and Ormazd, brings us to mind the Cathars broken and burning… well, perhaps it is more than a coincidence.
In the past, we’ve considered the slaughter of the Cathars as a movement by the Papacy to avoid losing the power of its most powerful weapons in the war on secular might—excommunication and interdict—as well as a means to the end of controlling the image of God in the minds of the faithful: by building in the heart of Europe a conception of God and Jesus as the means to martial victory, using Christ the Warchief as the inspiration for crusades in Jerusalem as well as Languedoc, it’s certainly conceivable to imagine specific inheritors of the Papacy as trying to create the impression (and impression can be reality) that Christ’s servant on earth, his Vicar, should be the Warchief of all Europe. Innocent III’s meddling in the succession of the Holy Roman Emperor through his cat’s-paws Philip of Swabia and Otto IV, and the eventual elevation of his ward and charge Frederick II of Hohenstaufen to the Kingdom of Sicily and the throne of the Holy Roman Empire showed how an ambitious pope could attempt to recreate the Empire of the Romans with another Bridge Priest in charge, as Augustus had been. (Pontifex Maximus, one of Augustus’ titles, basically referred to an ancient religious rite of blessing for bridges in Rome, and it survives today as the title Pontiff for the Papacy, much as the pagan priesthood survived in Iceland as the goði, a wandering judge and official, well into Christianity’s reign on the island.) It’s possible the bridge the Papacy sought to cross was the ancient “Bridge of the Separator” that groups like the Cathars and the Bogomils had inherited from Manichæanism and Gnosticism, that ancient Essenic/Zoroastrian inheritance of co-existent principles of matter and spirit, good and evil, light and darkness. Recalling the visions of Hildegard, which so resembled the Inferno of Dante Alighieri (born in 1265 in Florence, to be embroiled in the same controversy between the Guelphs and the Ghibellines that led to Innocent’s meddling in the Imperial succession 65 years before his birth), and the later visions of Swedenborg and his disciple and eventual eclipse, William Blake, it’s possible that the Papacy, under popes like Sylvester II and later lawyer-popes like Innocent III and Honorius III, sought to bring Satan back into the monotheistic relationship of the Book of Job: the accuser of the divine court, useful in defining and destroying one’s enemies. Did the Grimoire of Honorius stem from the same urge towards diabolism that would later see Borgia installed upon the Throne of Peter? It’s not that hard to imagine the Papacy, feeling beset by heresies, reverting back to the tactics of St. Augustine and using fire against fire. By creating the Dominican and Franciscan orders, one could argue, Honorius did exactly what a good diabolist in the heart of the Church would do to cover up his presence—it’s as easy to invert Eliphas Levi’s argument as it is to accept it on face value. How better for a master magician who seeks to recreate God in his own image to do away with his rivals than to set the hounds of the Inquisition upon them?"
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Take the time, it is worth far more than you can imagine,

so take the time, to google for information on followers of Jesus

evangelists, pastors, and new believers, being murdered

in many countries around the world, by and with the governments

approval. The news is devastating, overwhelming in proportion,

almost unbelievable at first (for the uninformed in the usa). It takes

time to realize the enormity of what's going on, and God's gift of

Grace and Humility to not be discouraged beyond normal measure.

So, take the time to look, to search, to read, and hopefully to see

a step at a time what's been going on for a long time......
 
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