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This was a very nice response. Thank you for that. I disagree with the idea that Hebrew was the Edenic language, and I reject Edenics a priori. Hebrew came from a prior Semitic language, and Aramaic is actually older than Hebrew. There are also other Semitic languages that are older than Hebrew, such as Akkadian and Ugaritic, which no longer exist. Linguists have established the relationships between these languages and the fact that they come from a common ancestor. We observe linguistic evolution in history, and Hebrew was not free from that. I think it's the fact that we come from different worldviews (I'm a naturalist in my thinking) which makes our discussion points nearly incompatible.
Perhaps it's better that we not argue one way or another with each other. Our basic assumptions about life and about the Hebrew language are in contradiction to each other. So, our conclusions will surely always lie in different directions.
Agree to disagree?
I had the same reaction!
FWIW, I agree with you on this topic.
εὐχαριστῶ σοι, ὦ ἄδελφέ μου.
I wonder what the proper ancient Koine response to that might have been. "Back at ya" and "you're welcome" probably would sound weird to them,
The reference to the plural was the word plowshares in Joel 3:10. Plow would be singular , plowshares , plural. Not the plural of the direct object marker though. the plural of the word plow.
The letters aleph , tav are used for more than just the direct object marker. This verse uses Et for the noun meaning mark or sign. It adds the vav in the middle. So aleph , tav becomes aleph, vav, tav.
This verse has the plural of the noun for mark usually translated as signs here.
In this verse you see the plural of Oht. The Hebrew word for marker. Why the vav is missing in the second occurence is a good question linguistically but a tangent for our purposes.
Concerning root words. Even in the English we can see the basic concept of root words. Take the word sing. I sing but she sings. There is an s on the end. It is the plural form. Or he sang , the past tense. Still the same root word.
The word protest can be both a noun and a verb. He attended the protest versus he protested the event. Still the same root word.
The words telegraph , biography , geography all share the root graph. Graph comes from the the Greek graphia (to write) and tele from the Greek for far. So telegraph , that which writes at a distance. Bio is from the Greek word for life. So biography means write about someone's life.
The fact that the Hebrew word for marker and the direct object marker ET are using the same root are because they are related in meaning. When used as a direct object marker , it is a preposition. When used as a noun it is the noun meaning marker. it is probably more technically correct to say they both share the same root. A root can have several different applications.
The preposition Et is not plural. But the root word Et in it's use as a noun certainly can be plural.
Even the word for "you" (female) is "at" which is the same two Hebrew letters used for ET , Aleph , Tav. It uses a different vowel sound.
If you look at the function though. They all relate to each other."you" marks a person, Et marks the direct object , Oht is a physical marker or sign. Even plow is setting your eyes upon a mark. If one has ever farmed , they still use this method to this day.
The fact that the pictograph for Tav is a marker ( a cross) only emphasizes the connection.
The fact that it is used for both the direct object marker and the personal pronoun is no co incidence. Linguistically speaking , it means that if a person could trace it back to the original they would see the connection in the pictographs.
These ideas are not my original ideas. They are quite well known in the field of linguistics and also in etomology which traces words back to where they came from.
The basic ideas of word etomology and Linguistics are only under debate because some posters are being intentionally obtuse with the intent of entrapping me in some contradiction that they can attack and thus distract from the main point of the discussion.
Et had a meaning which is related to it's function. It means marker, In the case of the preposition , direct object marker.
I find it edifying to know that the original pictographic meaning of the word Et is the sign for strength and marker or "strong marker " and that the marker used is the picture of the cross.
No, he was talking about the word אוֹת 'ot, which means "sign".
P S heya, Yonale. I need your smart opinion on something.
we got a debate last night on skype (all native speakers, two american compatriots) which one is proper way? i mean, עדשה עדשים , feminine. But in Talmud there is a form עדש עדשים
No, he was talking about the word אוֹת 'ot, which means "sign".
That is correct. The fact that both words mean marker is because they share the same root.
The Hebrew alphabet was originally written using pictures that later evolved into script. These ancient pictographic letters give us a little understanding of how the Hebrew language is meant to be understood. For ALEPH the picture is that of an Ox head and it represents the strength and leadership of G-d.
The Hebrew alphabet was originally written using pictures that later evolved into script. These ancient pictographic letters give us a little understanding of how the Hebrew language is meant to be understood. For ALEPH the picture is that of an Ox head and it represents the strength and leadership of G-d.
Remember that Hebrew reads from right to left. The ancient Hebrew pictograph for the letter Aleph is an Ox head, meaning strength or God, as in “the Lord is my strength”. The pictograph for the letter Tav is two crossed sticks, meaning a mark or covenant.
Therefore, when Jesus says, “I am the Aleph and the Tav,” what He is saying is that He is the MARK of GOD, or God’s signature;
The original pictograph used in the Early Semitic script is a , a picture of a tent peg. The tent pegs were made of wood and may have been Y-shaped to prevent the rope from slipping off.
The original pictograph for this letter is a picture of an ox head - representing strength and power from the work performed by the animal. This pictograph also represents a chief or other leader. When two oxen are yoked together for pulling a wagon or plow, one is the older and more experienced one who leads the other. Within the clan, tribe or family the chief or father is seen as the elder who is yoked to the others as the leader and teacher.
The Ancient picture is a type of "mark", probably of two sticks crossed to mark a place similar to the Egyptian hieroglyph of , a picture of two crossed sticks. This letter has the meanings of mark, sign or signature.
The most common word in the Hebrew Bible is the word את (et). The first letter is the א, called an aleph, and is the first letter of the Hebrew alephbet. The second letter in the word את (et) is the ת, called a tav, and is the last letter of the Hebrew alephbet. These two letters are the "first and the last," the "beginning and the end" and the "Aleph and the Tav" (which is translated as "the alpha and the omega," the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet, in the book of Revelation).
Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruning hooks into spears; let the weak say, "I am a warrior."
(Joel 4:10; 3:10 in Christian Bibles)
The word "plowshares," in the passage above, is the Hebrew word את (et). A plowshare is the metal point of the plow which digs into the soil creating a furrow for planting seeds. When we examine the original pictographic script used in ancient times to write Hebrew, we can see a clear connection between the letters of this word and its meaning.
The word את is used as a grammatical tool to identify the definite object of the verb. In the example of Genesis 1:1 the verb is the Hebrew word ברא (bara), meaning "to fill," and the definite objects, the ones receiving the action of the verb, are the sky and the land. Just as the "ox" moved toward the "mark" when plowing, the word את (the plowshare) plows the path from the verb of a sentence (the ox) to the definite object (the mark).
The ancient Jewish sages believed that the alephbet (Hebrew alphabet) was the building blocks of life. In other words, those twenty-two letters of the Hebrew alphabet are what all of life is built on......
Now let's look at the verse even more closely through the eyes of the ancient sages. After Bere'shiyt bara 'Elohiym there is a fourth untranslatable word. That fourth word is actually two Hebrew letters: the Aleph and the Tav. The aleph-tav (אתdoes serve a grammatical purpose in that it points to the direct object of the sentence. These two letters do not actually form a word, but rather they express an understanding. The aleph (א is the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet, and the tav(ת is the last letter of the alphabet. The placement of these two very significant letters at strategic locations within many sentences of the Hebrew Scriptures express a total completeness. It is equivalent to saying "from alpha to omega, from a to z, from first to last, from beginning to end." So, from the Hebraic point of view, they see that "In the beginning 'Elohiym created the aleph-tav". In other words, they believe that the very first thing 'Elohiym created was the Hebrew alphabet, which is known through ancient writings also as the aleph-tav. They recognize that He created the letters by which all life and all physical things spring forth from
Who is Brad Scott
Photo of Brad & Carol Scott
Brad has been teaching the Scriptures since 1971. Raised in Missouri, he began in the Lutheran system and was taught traditional Christian theology. In 1978, he began his studies in the Greek language and soon discovered that the well-defined Greek structure was NOT so well-defined. He soon began to learn the Hebrew language, and sat at the feet of Rabbinical scholars, much the same way Sha'ul may have done so! Having been trained that the New Testament was written in Greek, Brad discovered through other scholars of the New Testament and the Dead Sea Scrolls that the New Testament may well have been written in Hebrew. He has been teaching the Hebrew language and culture since 1983. Brad is an ordained minister through a non-denominational pastoralship.
Brad is a professional musician, as well, and enjoys leading or just participating with Praise and Worship teams by playing keyboard and singing. Although he plays all styles of music, Brad enjoys the Messianic style best.
admire your patience, i given up on those discussions while ago.
usually its people that got infatuated with some fancy idea and use "creative translation" to build up a support system to "prove it right" to others and to themselves.
Your effors wont be appreciated except for those who already are a choir you need not preach to.
There are always enough questionable semi-scienfic crazy stuff floating around on the net, trying to correct it is a very ungrateful task( yawn).
P S heya, Yonale. I need your smart opinion on something.
we got a debate last night on skype (all native speakers, two american compatriots) which one is proper way? i mean, עדשה עדשים , feminine. But in Talmud there is a form עדש עדשים
What is my point ? My point is that this dismissal of my views on the ancient Hebrew is not built upon scholarship or a well researched position.
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