The good book?

Sectio Aurea · Apr 29, 2013

When I was a Christian (Anglican) I read the bible entirely (yes all the way through) at aged 13 and again when I was about 17 during my time in a Christian boarding school. I again made numerous attempts as a young adult but always gave up partway. Anyway it didn't matter to me about reading it entirely again as I believed it was the inspired word of God and I had read it entirely twice before. At least that was the reason I used to justify to myself why I stopped reading it. Now older with more wisdom I know why. Because I wasn't satisfied that is why. Everybody seemed to refer to it as the good book, but to me it was anything but. The best way to keep my faith was to actually avoid reading it and focus on the good parts my priest would choose for his sermons.

Anyway...

If you have read the bible entirely(honesty here please folks) what makes you conclude that the bible is a good book?

AlexBP · Apr 29, 2013

When I was growing up I was an atheist and I unthinkingly absorbed the message of secular culture around me. The message was that it was all about me, that selfishness was the way to go in all things, and that religion was a primitive idea that no intelligent person believed in. I unthinkingly accepted all of this and naturally became extremely unhappy, even to the point of thinking that life was entirely pointless. When I read the words of Jesus Christ in the Gospels, He introduced me to a new way of thinking and living which turned my life around.

juvenissun · Apr 29, 2013

Sectio Aurea said:
When I was a Christian (Anglican) I read the bible entirely (yes all the way through) at aged 13 and again when I was about 17 during my time in a Christian boarding school. I again made numerous attempts as a young adult but always gave up partway. Anyway it didn't matter to me about reading it entirely again as I believed it was the inspired word of God and I had read it entirely twice before. At least that was the reason I used to justify to myself why I stopped reading it. Now older with more wisdom I know why. Because I wasn't satisfied that is why. Everybody seemed to refer to it as the good book, but to me it was anything but. The best way to keep my faith was to actually avoid reading it and focus on the good parts my priest would choose for his sermons.

Anyway...

If you have read the bible entirely(honesty here please folks) what makes you conclude that the bible is a good book?

Reading is fine, but is not enough.

The Bible is not only a book, but is also a reference, a life-time reference. You do not have to read through an encyclopedia, but you need to read it when you have question.

I would say that read the Bible twice all the way through is not bad. But it would be better if you try to read a particular Book in the Bible a few more times. And read other Books in the Bible as you like to. For example, I read Ecclesiastics at least 20 times. And what it says in there surprised me every time when I revisited it.

A more beneficial way to read the Bible is trying to find verses in the Bible to answer your question. Now-a-day, it is quite easy to do so. Just search: "what does the Bible say about ????" on Internet, then you will hit many messages that quote the Bible.

quatona · Apr 29, 2013

AlexBP said:
When I was growing up I was an atheist and I unthinkingly absorbed the message of secular culture around me. The message was that it was all about me, that selfishness was the way to go in all things

Oh, really?

Dave Ellis · Apr 29, 2013

Sectio Aurea said:
When I was a Christian (Anglican) I read the bible entirely (yes all the way through) at aged 13 and again when I was about 17 during my time in a Christian boarding school. I again made numerous attempts as a young adult but always gave up partway. Anyway it didn't matter to me about reading it entirely again as I believed it was the inspired word of God and I had read it entirely twice before. At least that was the reason I used to justify to myself why I stopped reading it. Now older with more wisdom I know why. Because I wasn't satisfied that is why. Everybody seemed to refer to it as the good book, but to me it was anything but. The best way to keep my faith was to actually avoid reading it and focus on the good parts my priest would choose for his sermons.

Anyway...

If you have read the bible entirely(honesty here please folks) what makes you conclude that the bible is a good book?

I have also read the bible cover to cover, and while there's bits and pieces of good advice in it, as a whole the book is anything but good.

Dave Ellis · Apr 29, 2013

AlexBP said:
When I was growing up I was an atheist and I unthinkingly absorbed the message of secular culture around me. The message was that it was all about me, that selfishness was the way to go in all things, and that religion was a primitive idea that no intelligent person believed in. I unthinkingly accepted all of this and naturally became extremely unhappy, even to the point of thinking that life was entirely pointless. When I read the words of Jesus Christ in the Gospels, He introduced me to a new way of thinking and living which turned my life around.

I'm a little confused.... I'm an Atheist, and I don't believe selfishness is the way to go. I also know some very intelligent people who believe in God, I just believe they're mistaken on that topic.

Also, even if you believe Jesus had some good advice, that doesn't in any way mean he's divine or any of the supernatural aspects of the story have any validity.

After all, pretty well everything he had to say that was good advice, were concepts known to Philosophers long before Jesus was ever said to have existed... That's not to mention the bad advice he gave that no Christian in their right mind would ever follow.

Basically what I'm asking is, even if you thought he had good advice, how does that lead into believing all the other stuff about him?

Eight Foot Manchild · Apr 29, 2013

I don't even think the Bible is good fiction.

juvenissun · Apr 30, 2013

Dave Ellis said:
I'm a little confused.... I'm an Atheist, and I don't believe selfishness is the way to go. I also know some very intelligent people who believe in God, I just believe they're mistaken on that topic.

Also, even if you believe Jesus had some good advice, that doesn't in any way mean he's divine or any of the supernatural aspects of the story have any validity.

After all, pretty well everything he had to say that was good advice, were concepts known to Philosophers long before Jesus was ever said to have existed... That's not to mention the bad advice he gave that no Christian in their right mind would ever follow.

Basically what I'm asking is, even if you thought he had good advice, how does that lead into believing all the other stuff about him?

You get things reversed. The Bible emphasizes on "the other stuff" rather than on "good advice". Moral conduct is a by-product of "the other stuff".

You want to read a book of "good advices", then read anything but the Bible. The Bible is a Book of Life.

Eudaimonist · Apr 30, 2013

Dave Ellis said:
I have also read the bible cover to cover, and while there's bits and pieces of good advice in it, as a whole the book is anything but good.

This ^

eudaimonia,

Mark

Dave Ellis · Apr 30, 2013

juvenissun said:
You get things reversed. The Bible emphasizes on "the other stuff" rather than on "good advice". Moral conduct is a by-product of "the other stuff".

You want to read a book of "good advices", then read anything but the Bible. The Bible is a Book of Life.

However I find a lot of ideas that are promoted as moral in the Bible are anything but moral.

And he was referring to advice given by Jesus as the reason why he turned Christian.

My point was the good advice he gave was not original to him, and he also had some bad ideas as well... For example, give no thought for tomorrow. I think everyone, Christians included would agree planning for your future is a wise move, yet Jesus advises against it.

I just don't see anything all that spectacular about his purported teachings. There's some good, some bad and nothing that would lead me to believe he was anything more than a 1st century preacher.

Sectio Aurea · Apr 30, 2013

AlexBP said:
When I read the words of Jesus Christ in the Gospels, He introduced me to a new way of thinking and living which turned my life around.

Ditto for me too, by the way, have you read the bible entirely?

juvenissun · Apr 30, 2013

Dave Ellis said:
However I find a lot of ideas that are promoted as moral in the Bible are anything but moral.

And he was referring to advice given by Jesus as the reason why he turned Christian.

My point was the good advice he gave was not original to him, and he also had some bad ideas as well... For example, give no thought for tomorrow. I think everyone, Christians included would agree planning for your future is a wise move, yet Jesus advises against it.

I just don't see anything all that spectacular about his purported teachings. There's some good, some bad and nothing that would lead me to believe he was anything more than a 1st century preacher.

Many people think that way. But some don't. You are not exceptional.

On the matter of think about tomorrow, what you have is a misunderstanding. There is much more to it. Basically, it means: don't "worry" about tomorrow (on something), under the condition that you simply don't know what to do.

You still can argue about the meaning of it. But the argument would exactly show that none of His teaching is as trivial as it looks.

Dave Ellis · Apr 30, 2013

juvenissun said:
Many people think that way. But some don't. You are not exceptional.

On the matter of think about tomorrow, what you have is a misunderstanding. There is much more to it. Basically, it means: don't "worry" about tomorrow (on something), under the condition that you simply don't know what to do.

You still can argue about the meaning of it. But the argument would exactly show that none of His teaching is as trivial as it looks.

That's not actually what the verse says... In the previous passages if I'm not mistaken he talks about how God will provide for everything if you trust in him. He then goes on to say give no thought for tomorrow based on the idea that God's going to look out for you, so you don't have to look out for yourself.

Then of course there's the advice that Jesus gives to sell all your possessions.... I don't see too many Christians, (and especially churches) following that one.

keith99 · Apr 30, 2013

Sectio Aurea said:
When I was a Christian (Anglican) I read the bible entirely (yes all the way through) at aged 13 and again when I was about 17 during my time in a Christian boarding school. I again made numerous attempts as a young adult but always gave up partway. Anyway it didn't matter to me about reading it entirely again as I believed it was the inspired word of God and I had read it entirely twice before. At least that was the reason I used to justify to myself why I stopped reading it. Now older with more wisdom I know why. Because I wasn't satisfied that is why. Everybody seemed to refer to it as the good book, but to me it was anything but. The best way to keep my faith was to actually avoid reading it and focus on the good parts my priest would choose for his sermons.

Anyway...

If you have read the bible entirely(honesty here please folks) what makes you conclude that the bible is a good book?

Depends a lot on how one reads it.

I find it much more 'The Good Book' if I view it as the attempts of a people to understand the world and interact with their view of God.

I became more impressed when I learned more about the other cultures in the area.

I became most impressed when I saw how much more wisdom there is in those pages than there is in the thoughts of most of the followers of Christianity. And depressed when I saw some brilliance or careful explaining by Paul either ignored or reversed by modern idiots (with large followings).

juvenissun · May 1, 2013

Dave Ellis said:
That's not actually what the verse says... In the previous passages if I'm not mistaken he talks about how God will provide for everything if you trust in him. He then goes on to say give no thought for tomorrow based on the idea that God's going to look out for you, so you don't have to look out for yourself.

Then of course there's the advice that Jesus gives to sell all your possessions.... I don't see too many Christians, (and especially churches) following that one.

It is.

What you said is obviously not right. People will not believe such a religion if what you said is true. People are not stupid.

AlexBP · May 1, 2013

Dave Ellis said:
I'm a little confused.... I'm an Atheist, and I don't believe selfishness is the way to go.

Good for you, but not relevant to what I said. The dominant secular culture that I was raised in teaches selfishness. When I watched TV commercials, I saw a lot promoting selfishness, few promoting anything else.

Also, even if you believe Jesus had some good advice, that doesn't in any way mean he's divine or any of the supernatural aspects of the story have any validity.

"Advice" is stuff that little old ladies in pearl necklaces write in newspaper columns, telling people what type of shoes to wear at the country club and suchlike. The Word of Jesus Christ is life-changing principles. Or to put it another way, advice tells us how to conform to the surrounding society, but Jesus tells us that we don't have to, because we can conform to God instead. Hebrews 4 says: "The word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart." I don't think anyone ever described a Dear Abby column that way.

quatona · May 1, 2013

AlexBP said:
Good for you, but not relevant to what I said. The dominant secular culture that I was raised in teaches selfishness. When I watched TV commercials, I saw a lot promoting selfishness, few promoting anything else.

Exactly, TV commercials are produced by atheists and in the name of secularity in order to promote selfishness.
They are not, I repeat: NOT!, produced by advertisement specialists (of whatever worldview) in the name of businessmen (of whatever worldview) in order to promote the sales of their products. This is a lie brought to you by the secular agenda.
The truth is: TV commercials are produced to promote selfishness, few promote anything else, as the core message of secularity.

(It would also be interesting to learn which country you grew up - where the culture was predominantly secular. And why you were raised by a TV set.)

AlexBP · May 1, 2013

Sectio Aurea said:
have you read the bible entirely?

Yes, I have read three translations in their entirety: NCV, NRSV, and NJKV.

Dave Ellis said:
After all, pretty well everything he had to say that was good advice, were concepts known to Philosophers long before Jesus was ever said to have existed... That's not to mention the bad advice he gave that no Christian in their right mind would ever follow.

Yeah, I've heard a lot of people say that Jesus was just an ordinary, run-of-the-mill preacher or philosopher, and Christianity is no different from any other set of teachings. By observation, though, it seems to me that nobody believes it. Even atheists who claim to believe that still pour vastly more effort into spreading hatred of Christianity than anything else. I've seen scores of websites devoted to expressing a person's wrath against Jesus and His followers, which must have required quite a lot of time to construct. By contrast, I've never seen any website devoted to attacking the Pythagoreans. A few weeks ago someone on this website--I can't recall his name at the moment--was claiming that many churches teach that sex is dirty and evil and that the Catholic Church's teachings lead to people getting AIDS. I doubt the guy who was saying that pours out similar lies against the Neoplatonists. When people encounter the living God in Christ, some devote their lives to following him and others devote their lives to hating him, but no one reacts by thinking of him as just another ancient talking head, similar to Parmenides of Elea or Anaxagoras.

Eight Foot Manchild · May 1, 2013

AlexBP said:
Yeah, I've heard a lot of people say that Jesus was just an ordinary, run-of-the-mill preacher or philosopher, and Christianity is no different from any other set of teachings. By observation, though, it seems to me that nobody believes it. Even atheists who claim to believe that still pour vastly more effort into spreading hatred of Christianity than anything else. I've seen scores of websites devoted to expressing a person's wrath against Jesus and His followers, which must have required quite a lot of time to construct. By contrast, I've never seen any website devoted to attacking the Pythagoreans. A few weeks ago someone on this website--I can't recall his name at the moment--was claiming that many churches teach that sex is dirty and evil and that the Catholic Church's teachings lead to people getting AIDS. I doubt the guy who was saying that pours out similar lies against the Neoplatonists. When people encounter the living God in Christ, some devote their lives to following him and others devote their lives to hating him, but no one reacts by thinking of him as just another ancient talking head, similar to Parmenides of Elea or Anaxagoras.

The difference is that Christians try to legislate their beliefs, and have the resources to do so. That is where the backlash comes from, not because your rabbi of choice is particularly special.

Dave Ellis · May 1, 2013

juvenissun said:
It is.

What you said is obviously not right. People will not believe such a religion if what you said is true. People are not stupid.

Well, actually a lot of people haven't bothered to read the Bible yet still call themselves Christian.

It's no coincidence that one of the most effective ways to make someone an Atheist is to have them read the Bible.

The good book?

Sectio Aurea

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... and God saw that it was good.

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... and God saw that it was good.

I believe in life before death!

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... and God saw that it was good.

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sola dosis facit venenum

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