But it doesn't have windows in it that can be opened to let rain fall through. as is mentioned in Genesis. Do you not see that this is figurative, not a literal description?In geometry, a spherical cap or spherical dome is a portion of a sphere or of a ball. Our atmosphere is indeed a dome above our heads from the point of reference of an observer on the ground.
Between 3 & 4. According to Einstein, time is relative. If a group got on a spaceship to leave Earth and had a clock identical to one on Earth, and then left and started traveling at close to the speed of light, time would pass differently for them than for those left behind on Earth. The clock on Earth would show much more time had passed than the clock in the spaceship. If the ship returned to Earth after 10 years of ship time, those they knew on Earth would all be dead.There is currently a spectrum of belief regarding origins, and this is tied loosely to how literal one reads Scripture and/or the degree to which one is willing to allow the evidence of Gods Creation inform their beliefs *about* that Creation. We must keep in mind that every position except the one on top, the Flat-earthers, involves a certain degree of allowance of scientific knowledge to influence Scriptural interpretation.
1. Flat-earthers - believe that a plain reading of Scripture indicates that the earth is flat. Very few still hold on to this belief.
2. Geocentrists - believe that the sun and all the stars literally revolve around the earth. Still a surprising number of these around, although the movement suffered a major setback after the late 60's. They have lots of Scripture and theological bases to argue from, however, and insist that a literal reading of Scriptures requires geocentrism. Ironically, they hold young earth creationists (below) in the same light as theistic evolutionists: those who have let secular science alter their view away from a plain, literal reading of Scripture. A recent shake up over at ICR (or possibly it was AiG) occured when the group finally denounced geocentrism and a number of their contributing members quit because they were geocentrist.
3. Young Earth Creationists - believe that the earth and universe are both young (less than 10,000 years old) and that all the diversity of species is the result of special creation, based on a literal reading of Scripture (even if not AS literal as those above).
4. Gap Theorists (a form of Old Earth Creationism) - Believe that the earth and universe were created at the time science says, but that God created Man and all the animals at the "young earth" time frame. Some believe this is a "recreation", God having scrapped an earlier version (dinosaurs, etc).
5. Progressive Creationists (aka "Day-Age Creationists", another form of OEC)- Believe that the earth and universe were created at the time science says, but that each "day" in Genesis referred to an indefinite period of time. Genesis is a historically and scientifically accurate account, just that it happened over a VERY long time period.
6. Theistic Evolutionists (with a literal Adam and Eve) - believe in an old earth and universe, but accept that God used evolution as part of His creation, basically as science describes it. But they feel that there was a literal Adam and Eve in a literal Garden. Some attribute this Adam and Eve to an instance of special creation, others to election as "representatives", etc. Also believe in biogenesis, not abiogenesis.
7. Theistic Evolutionists (no literal Adam and Eve, but biogenesis) - believe that Man evolved along with the other species (pursuant to Gods plan), but that the initial spark of life was immediately God induced. Some even push this forward to some mass special creation of a variety of "kinds" around the Cambrian period, with all the species evolving from there.
8. Theistic Evolutionists (abiogenesis) - God created everything and established the full system of natural laws upon with the universe and the earth would work. And it did. With life arising at the time and place He had known it would, etc.
A bit of a side category is the Intelligent Design movement of recent years. This asserts that *whatever* you accept about creation, there is firm evidence that the universe and the earth in particular were designed with specific intelligence, by a designer, and not happening randomly. Those holding this opinion come in each of the flavors mentioned above, although the most recent and influential of these have been Theistic Evolutionists (ie, they accept that species evolved over billions of years, including man, but that God directed the process all the way, it was not random or wholly naturalistic).
So, where do you fit in? I dont necessarily want everyone to post their "number", but it is interesting to see it all laid out like this. If any have suggestions or tweaks to make to the this list, go ahead and say so.
But it doesn't have windows in it that can be opened to let rain fall through. as is mentioned in Genesis. Do you not see that this is figurative, not a literal description?
Yes. Focusing on such things is to miss the intended message.Even if ancient people understood it as literal, we aren't obliged to do likewise.
This thread is so old and yet, people are still responding to it. And it's so old, I can't remember if I already responded to it and if I did, I hope I don't contradict myself. I would have to say I fall between 5 and 6 (maybe a little bit toward 7 too). God bless you.There is currently a spectrum of belief regarding origins, and this is tied loosely to how literal one reads Scripture and/or the degree to which one is willing to allow the evidence of Gods Creation inform their beliefs *about* that Creation. We must keep in mind that every position except the one on top, the Flat-earthers, involves a certain degree of allowance of scientific knowledge to influence Scriptural interpretation.
1. Flat-earthers - believe that a plain reading of Scripture indicates that the earth is flat. Very few still hold on to this belief.
2. Geocentrists - believe that the sun and all the stars literally revolve around the earth. Still a surprising number of these around, although the movement suffered a major setback after the late 60's. They have lots of Scripture and theological bases to argue from, however, and insist that a literal reading of Scriptures requires geocentrism. Ironically, they hold young earth creationists (below) in the same light as theistic evolutionists: those who have let secular science alter their view away from a plain, literal reading of Scripture. A recent shake up over at ICR (or possibly it was AiG) occured when the group finally denounced geocentrism and a number of their contributing members quit because they were geocentrist.
3. Young Earth Creationists - believe that the earth and universe are both young (less than 10,000 years old) and that all the diversity of species is the result of special creation, based on a literal reading of Scripture (even if not AS literal as those above).
4. Gap Theorists (a form of Old Earth Creationism) - Believe that the earth and universe were created at the time science says, but that God created Man and all the animals at the "young earth" time frame. Some believe this is a "recreation", God having scrapped an earlier version (dinosaurs, etc).
5. Progressive Creationists (aka "Day-Age Creationists", another form of OEC)- Believe that the earth and universe were created at the time science says, but that each "day" in Genesis referred to an indefinite period of time. Genesis is a historically and scientifically accurate account, just that it happened over a VERY long time period.
6. Theistic Evolutionists (with a literal Adam and Eve) - believe in an old earth and universe, but accept that God used evolution as part of His creation, basically as science describes it. But they feel that there was a literal Adam and Eve in a literal Garden. Some attribute this Adam and Eve to an instance of special creation, others to election as "representatives", etc. Also believe in biogenesis, not abiogenesis.
7. Theistic Evolutionists (no literal Adam and Eve, but biogenesis) - believe that Man evolved along with the other species (pursuant to Gods plan), but that the initial spark of life was immediately God induced. Some even push this forward to some mass special creation of a variety of "kinds" around the Cambrian period, with all the species evolving from there.
8. Theistic Evolutionists (abiogenesis) - God created everything and established the full system of natural laws upon with the universe and the earth would work. And it did. With life arising at the time and place He had known it would, etc.
A bit of a side category is the Intelligent Design movement of recent years. This asserts that *whatever* you accept about creation, there is firm evidence that the universe and the earth in particular were designed with specific intelligence, by a designer, and not happening randomly. Those holding this opinion come in each of the flavors mentioned above, although the most recent and influential of these have been Theistic Evolutionists (ie, they accept that species evolved over billions of years, including man, but that God directed the process all the way, it was not random or wholly naturalistic).
So, where do you fit in? I dont necessarily want everyone to post their "number", but it is interesting to see it all laid out like this. If any have suggestions or tweaks to make to the this list, go ahead and say so.
I was told that the whole thing started off as a joke. My grandmother was like that. She was sarcastic but she would never let on to people what she was doing. She never told them it was a joke and she would let them take her serious.1. Flat-earthers - believe that a plain reading of Scripture indicates that the earth is flat. Very few still hold on to this belief.
YEC is very easy, even if we go by Bishop Usshers book from 500 years ago. Most all of his 2,000 page books deal with the last 6,000 years of our history starting with Adam and Eve. If ever there was a six day week it would have been Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. They showed up in a instant just like that. Of course we are told that God breathed life into them.I don't think that God being a deceiver is the only explanation for YEC.
But Jesus did not entrust Himself to them, because He knew what was in all men...YEC is very easy, even if we go by Bishop Usshers book from 500 years ago. Most all of his 2,000 page books deal with the last 6,000 years of our history starting with Adam and Eve. If ever there was a six day week it would have been Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. They showed up in a instant just like that. Of course we are told that God breathed life into them.
It is not science that has to bend to the Bible. It is mans traditions that we have to be careful with. Just as Jesus warns us.
Jesus quoted what we call the old testament all the time. He not only trusted Himself to the word of God, He was the Word of God.But Jesus did not entrust Himself to them, because He knew what was in all men...
Yep - that is what Ex 20:11 and its legal code state.YEC is very easy, even if we go by Bishop Usshers book from 500 years ago. Most all of his 2,000 page books deal with the last 6,000 years of our history starting with Adam and Eve. If ever there was a six day week it would have been Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. They showed up in a instant just like that. Of course we are told that God breathed life into them.
Then they should stop doing it. Moses was not a darwinist - neither were his readers.It is not science that has to bend to the Bible.
3. Young Earth Creationists - believe that the earth and universe are both young (less than 10,000 years old) and that all the diversity of species is the result of special creation, based on a literal reading of Scripture (even if not AS literal as those above).
If the days in Genesis are 24 hours, then the earth is only 6,000 years old. At least the Bible only goes back 6,000 years. So what science says about what happened more then 6,000 years ago should not matter at all.It is not science that has to bend to the Bible. It is mans traditions that we have to be careful with. Just as Jesus warns us.
True for all life on Earth. True also for the Sun and the moon.If the days in Genesis are 24 hours, then the earth is only 6,000 years old.
It is not 'science' it is certain "scientists", it is certain forms of "Inference and extrapolation without test and observation".So what science says about what happened more then 6,000 years ago should not matter at all.
He also did a great job of re-interpreting the OT for the men of His time. He even changed and added to the OT. For example, when the Law of Moses commanded that the woman caught in adultery should be stoned, Jesus basically replied...we're not gonna do that. Or when He said you have heard that one who commits adultery....but I say to you if a man even looks at a woman with lust.....He didn't trust people...
There are 4 senses of Scripture interpretation: Literal, Allegorical, Moral and Anagogical. They are all useful. I like that the literal sense does not mean literal as we think of it today as the man on the street would understand. It's what the author originally intended. For example, as the church teaches, it's not as important that a man named Noah is a historical fact as it is to see the allegorical and moral sense that baptism (initially) saves us and washes away our previous sins as Peter allegorized in 1 Peter 3:20-21:No first man?
No Moses and no law?
No theme of freedom from bondage?
No curtain separating the people from God?
And that's only a few.
Those two books are the very foundations of the rest of the bible. How can it stand if what it's built on is ripped from under it?
All you have left is a rule book
amen.Jesus quoted what we call the old testament all the time. He not only trusted Himself to the word of God, He was the Word of God.
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