The Food and Drink Thread

[Byfaithalone1]

I have a couple of questions regarding food and drink:

1. What do you personally believe is acceptable for you to eat and drink?

2. What do you tell others about what they must not eat or drink?
​

BFA

 

[singpeace]

I believe that we are allowed to eat anything that God told Noah was good for eating.

However, from the time the Mosaic Law was given until the Resurrection of Christ, there were certain limitations for the purpose of the Law.

God told Noah,

Genesis 9:3
"Every moving thing that lives shall be meat for you; even -- in the same way -- as the green herb have I given you all things".

God gives his Law to Moses,

Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 - God puts a dietary plan into place which forbid certain foods like shellfish, pork, and birds of prey.



Jesus Christ fulfills the Law,

Romans 10:4 (NIV84)
Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Galatians 3:24–26 (NIV84)
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. 26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,

Ephesians 2:15 (NIV84)
by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,


God tells Peter to eat anything in Peter's Vision,

Acts 10:13-15
13. Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
14. “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
15. The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”


Jesus repeats what God said to Peter,

Mark 7:14-15
14. Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15. Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”

 

[Joe67]

And to continue singpeace's presentation:

Acts 15:7-10

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? KJV

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I believe that we are allowed to eat anything that God told Noah was good for eating.

However, from the time the Mosaic Law was given until the Resurrection of Christ, there were certain limitations for the purpose of the Law.

God told Noah,

Genesis 9:3
"Every moving thing that lives shall be meat for you; even -- in the same way -- as the green herb have I given you all things".

God gives his Law to Moses,

Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 - God puts a dietary plan into place which forbid certain foods like shellfish, pork, and birds of prey.



Jesus Christ fulfills the Law,

Romans 10:4 (NIV84)
Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Galatians 3:24–26 (NIV84)
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. 26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,

Ephesians 2:15 (NIV84)
by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,


God tells Peter to eat anything in Peter's Vision,

Acts 10:13-15
13. Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
14. “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
15. The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”


Jesus repeats what God said to Peter,

Mark 7:14-15
14. Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15. Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”

Great post, SP. Not sure if we've interacted before. Welcome to CF!

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

What about alcohol?

Caffiene?

BFA

 

[Joe67]

What about alcohol?

Caffiene?

BFA

BFA,

Rom 7:25-8:1
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. KJV

Rom 14:14
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. KJV

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Would we all agree that an individual has the freedom to make choices about what s/he will eat or drink?

Anyone think that one adult has the authority to tell another adult which choices s/he should make about food or drink?

BFA

 

[Princessdi]

Well, BFA, not if you put it so bluntly, no one will agree to that.........However, it is what we practice in so many areas under the guise of religion.

My Mom, and others, talk about blatant intrusions by the church even into the marriages of members in years passed. All justified when one decided to voluntarily to join the organization.

diet is one of the most intrusive areas amongst SDAs, mostly because we have developed our own "levels" as Dante did with all sins. NO ONE should be eating pork at all. if you are that is like the fastest ticket to hell. Believe or not eating clean meat is little better than eating pork, but at least you are on the right road. Vegetarianism is great, but vegans have basically found the fast track to heaven. Many, if not most buy into this unwritten, but very powerful "doctrine". So, you have people making all kinds of demands of others about what they can or cannot eat, and feeling very justified in doing so.

All in all it is part of the HUGE problem in christianity to settle for conformity instead of teaching relationship and waiting, no allowing, for God to work with each individual in His time. We can just extend this to dress, entertainment, etc.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

All in all it is part of the HUGE problem in christianity to settle for conformity instead of teaching relationship and waiting, no allowing, for God to work with each individual in His time. We can just extend this to dress, entertainment, etc.

I agree wholeheartedly that this spirit finds its way into many corners of Christianity. For example, in my corner of the Christian world, it is immensely common for Christians to impose their potical views, so much so that a person who disagrees is made to feel "less than" or perhaps even "sinful."

diet is one of the most intrusive areas amongst SDAs, mostly because we have developed our own "levels" as Dante did with all sins. NO ONE should be eating pork at all. if you are that is like the fastest ticket to hell. Believe or not eating clean meat is little better than eating pork, but at least you are on the right road. Vegetarianism is great, but vegans have basically found the fast track to heaven. Many, if not most buy into this unwritten, but very powerful "doctrine". So, you have people making all kinds of demands of others about what they can or cannot eat, and feeling very justified in doing so.

That was my experience too. Vegans were the true ones. Meat eaters were less than. For decades, I attended a church where nuts and twigs potlucks were the norm and cooking classes were held regularly.

At the end of the day, I don't want to tell another person what to eat or not eat.

BFA

 

[Joe67]

BFA,

When we are in a position of human authority in our daily employment, we feel a responsibility to educate in certain areas and to legislate in other areas and to discipline/judge if the legislation is despised/disobeyed.

When we come together in the name of Jesus, this is a relationship of a different order.

The desire for "us" to jointly owe real property in the name of Jesus inserts the Hagar/Ishmael bondage and ultimately for a man to rule over his fellow brethren in the effort to retain control over the material domain.

Therein is the "mystery of iniquity", of which the entire world is on the brink of nuclear war over a little peace of real property, and neither Jesus nor Abraham are buried at this place.

Joe

 

[Princessdi]

Once again, BFA, we run into all of this trouble because we forget what it is we are supposed to be doing........being witnesses. Testifying to others about what we personally know of The Creator and Savior of the World, and His direct impact on our own lives. Not convince anyone of doctrine, ask, coax, or even suggest that they follow any rules/laws. Just lift up Jesus with the testimony of a lived life and our word. We always make it so much more difficult.

I agree wholeheartedly that this spirit finds its way into many corners of Christianity. For example, in my corner of the Christian world, it is immensely common for Christians to impose their potical views, so much so that a person who disagrees is made to feel "less than" or perhaps even "sinful."


That was my experience too. Vegans were the true ones. Meat eaters were less than. For decades, I attended a church where nuts and twigs potlucks were the norm and cooking classes were held regularly.

At the end of the day, I don't want to tell another person what to eat or not eat.

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Once again, BFA, we run into all of this trouble because we forget what it is we are supposed to be doing........being witnesses. Testifying to others about what we personally know of The Creator and Savior of the World, and His direct impact on our own lives. Not convince anyone of doctrine, ask, coax, or even suggest that they follow any rules/laws. Just lift up Jesus with the testimony of a lived life and our word. We always make it so much more difficult.

Very, very true.

BFA

 

[Joe67]

Once again, BFA, we run into all of this trouble because we forget what it is we are supposed to be doing........being witnesses. Testifying to others about what we personally know of The Creator and Savior of the World, and His direct impact on our own lives. Not convince anyone of doctrine, ask, coax, or even suggest that they follow any rules/laws. Just lift up Jesus with the testimony of a lived life and our word. We always make it so much more difficult.

Princessdi,

I believe and hope that you mean to hold up Jesus' sacrificial life for us and his teachings to us; by our deeds and our words/conversation.

Matt 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. KJV

Luke 17:10
10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do. KJV

Joe

 

[aemaleski]

Can I chime in on this forum? First, pertaining to Peter's vision in the book of Acts. It really doesn't pertain to the cleanliness or uncleanliness of foods. If you read the rest of the chapter you'll get the sense that it really is talking about people and judging them. At least this is my understanding of it. I would've never thought to use this passage to substantiate the clean/unclean foods.

 

[Joe67]

Can I chime in on this forum? First, pertaining to Peter's vision in the book of Acts. It really doesn't pertain to the cleanliness or uncleanliness of foods. If you read the rest of the chapter you'll get the sense that it really is talking about people and judging them. At least this is my understanding of it. I would've never thought to use this passage to substantiate the clean/unclean foods.

aemaleski,

Truly the vision does involve our freedom in Jesus to interact with those who are not of our religious base.

Consider the factors included in our Lord's first temptation in the wilderness.

The religious question of Jesus' sonship was joined with the practical quality of our bodily need for food. The answer revealed the two part truth. The two parts are one event.

The vision in Acts teaches us dual qualities that are bound into one entity, just as all other lessons in Jesus Christ have dual attributes united in one event.

Eph 2:15
for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; KJV

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Can I chime in on this forum? First, pertaining to Peter's vision in the book of Acts. It really doesn't pertain to the cleanliness or uncleanliness of foods. If you read the rest of the chapter you'll get the sense that it really is talking about people and judging them. At least this is my understanding of it. I would've never thought to use this passage to substantiate the clean/unclean foods.

No doubt the chapter is discussing people. I agree with that wholeheartedly.

However, if the passage only related to people, then we wouldn't see Peter going out and eating with Gentiles. Since Gentiles did not follow his practices, he likely ate foods that he would have previously considered unclean.

Notice this key phrase: "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy." This is not limited to people.

Consider also the following, as it also relates to both food and people:

"1Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.
2One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
3The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.
4Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
6He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.
7For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;
8for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
11For it is written,
"AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,
AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."
12So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
13Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.
14I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.
16Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil;
17for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
18For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.
20Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense.
21It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.
22The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin."
​

BFA

 

[Joe67]

No doubt the chapter is discussing people. I agree with that wholeheartedly.

However, if the passage only related to people, then we wouldn't see Peter going out and eating with Gentiles. Since Gentiles did not follow his practices, he likely ate foods that he would have previously considered unclean.

Notice this key phrase: "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy." This is not limited to people.

Consider also the following, as it also relates to both food and people:

"1Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.
2One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
3The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.
4Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
6He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.
7For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;
8for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
11For it is written,
"AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,
AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."
12So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
13Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.
14I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.
16Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil;
17for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
18For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.
20Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense.
21It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.
22The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin."
​

BFA

BFA,

Amen and amen.

We are in that agreement of the young men that overcomes the wicked one and the word of God abides in us. First, like children, we have been forgiven through the name of Jesus and know the Father. 1 John 2:12-15.

Later, I hope, that we will be in the unity concerning knowing him who is from the beginning. If God be willing, he will bring us into that unity through the Spirit wherein the saints are perfected and brought into the full stature of our calling in Jesus Christ. Ephesians 4:12-15 & Philippians 3:12-16.

Your brother in the Lord Jesus,
Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

If God be willing, he will bring us into that unity through the Spirit wherein the saints are perfected and brought into the full stature of our calling in Jesus Christ.

Not sure what differences there are between us on this. Might be a great topic to explore in a separate thread.

BFA

 

[Joe67]

Not sure what differences there are between us on this. Might be a great topic to explore in a separate thread.

BFA

BFA,

There is perfection in Jesus Christ to be attained by a few of those who are given to believe the truth that is in Jesus. This perfection in the fellowship of Jesus' sufferings in his priesthood is given through the sanctification of the Spirit.

Those who remain in religious fellowships always seek some type of mature/perfect satisfaction when their form of doctrine and worship is fully developed. Satisfaction in the flesh always ends with some type of holy days and foods through the god of their belly.

Satisfaction through the Spirit of Jesus ends with suffering the loss of all things as their form of worship is taken from them like Hagar and Ishmael being sent out of the camp.

Gal 3:3
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? KJV

Heb 6:1-3
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit. KJV

God has ordained that a few, of the many who are justified, be sanctified through the Spirit and set apart for fellowship in the mystery of the sufferings of Christ in his everlasting priesthood that ministers to the nations a rod of iron and heals them with the leaves from the tree of life.

Col 1:25-2:1
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily. KJV

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Joe . . . This seems like an interesting but unrelated topic. I've moved it to a separate thread. More folks may find it there and comment on it. For this thread, I'd like to focus on issues specifically related to food and drink.

BFA