The Flood

[Larry]

Is the Biblical account of the flood global or local?

 

[Ark Guy]

Global.



The bible says the mountains (high hills) were covered.

GEN 7:19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered.

If you do a geological survey in the area that the local flood contenders say the flood occured, you will discover that if the water covered the mountains, or high hills of that area...the flood HAD to have been much, much larger than local. We all know water seeks its own level.

 

[Ark Guy]

According to the following web site the lowest elevation of Armenia (the area that I have been told by previous Theo-Evs where the flood occured) is 400 meters.

http://www.parev.net/armenian-about-geography.htm

This is a water level...at the lowest point of about 1,300 feet

Now considering the area isn't a basin, the waters at the lowest point would have seeked its own level, spilled out of the area and would have been much more larger than a local flood.

Now considering that the waters were much higher than 400 meters during the flood, that is high enough to cover the mountains.(high hills)..there is no way flood could have been local

 

[Ark Guy]

Of course one could ask the question...If the flood was local, why build an ark?

Why not simply move the animals to the next country?

 

[Ark Guy]

The bible in Genesis tells us the rain fell on the earth and it was covered with water. It also says that the things living on the surface of the earth perished.

Now some Theo-Evos will claim that the word "earth" used in describing the flood account meant ...local land, or the known land at that time.

The original word for "earth" used was Strongs 776 erets
Now this very same word is used in the beginning of Genesis where God tells us he created the heavens and the earth erets.

Are we also to assume that the creation of the earth was a LOCAL earth? That is, just a portion of the earth or the whole earth?

 

[Ark Guy]

Peter also seem to agree that the world was flooded. Peter also makes what could very well be a prediction about the Theo-Evos as they have filtered their bible through science and delibertly forgotten what the bible says about the creation and the flood.

2PE 3:5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water.

2PE 3:6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.

2PE 3:7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

 

[Ark Guy]

In the new Testament Peter also tells us 8 people were saved from the flood waters. The Theo-Evos will tell you this statement is false and others in different countries and portions of the globe did not perish.

1PE 3:20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

 

[Ark Guy]

Larry I hope the above has helped you in answering your question.

 

[Bushido216]

Global.



The bible says the mountains (high hills) were covered.

GEN 7:19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered.

If you do a geological survey in the area that the local flood contenders say the flood occured, you will discover that if the water covered the mountains, or high hills of that area...the flood HAD to have been much, much larger than local. We all know water seeks its own level.

We also know that the water required for drowning the entire earth couldn't poof out of nowhere.

We also know that if Noah took only two of each kind, there'd be no animals left at all, since the carnivores would have IMMEDIATELY eaten the herbivores and then promptly died out.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Was there time for all of the races to develop if we are all descendants of Noah's family?

 

[Bushido216]

No.

 

[Ark Guy]

Bushido216 We also know that the water required for drowning the entire earth couldn't poof out of nowhere.

No one claimed the water poofed out of no where. Don't you read the bible Mr. Strawman????

GEN 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month--on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

We also know that if Noah took only two of each kind, there'd be no animals left at all, since the carnivores would have IMMEDIATELY eaten the herbivores and then promptly died out.

It's obvious this character never heard of a simple device called a CAGE

NEXT​

 

[Ark Guy]

Was there time for all of the races to develop if we are all descendants of Noah's family?

We don't know if the races were already established prior to the flood.
For example, Noahs sons wives may have been different races already.

But despite that I believe there was plenty of time to develope different races.

 

[Bushido216]

Bushido216 We also know that the water required for drowning the entire earth couldn't poof out of nowhere.

No one claimed the water poofed out of no where. Don't you read the bible Mr. Strawman????

GEN 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month--on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

We also know that if Noah took only two of each kind, there'd be no animals left at all, since the carnivores would have IMMEDIATELY eaten the herbivores and then promptly died out.

It's obvious this character never heard of a simple device called a CAGE

NEXT​

a.) I was using your own logic against you. If it's possible for the gates of heaven to open up and produce water, then it's equally possible for the Flood to be local.

b.) So, tell me how Noah kept the animals apart after they left the Ark? What did they eat?

 

[Ark Guy]

bushido, read each and every one of my post in the beginning of this thread.

Refute them with biblical logic...then get back to me.

As to what the animals ate, here is a SHORT list.


1. Seaweed. from what I have read, here are some of the following animals that have been know to eat eat seaweed: Moose, buffalo,Elephants,sheep,rabbits,cattle,horses,bears etc.
2. Edible Fungi would have also been avialable for consumption.
3. Carcasses. Dead animals that sunk to great depth would not be subject to much bacterial decay. Later if they floated to the surface or an area drained, the animals could have eaten them. Especially the scavengers. Other animals that eat carrion are, vultures, hyenas, jackals, lions, tigers, cheetas, ratels, leopards, foxes, wolves, otters, wild pigs, various snakes etc.
4. Fish, molluscs, crustaceans and other aquatic life would have made nice meals for some of the animals after they left the ark.
5. Rodents that were released from the ark would multiply quite rapidly and provide food for some of the animals. These rodents were probably bred on the ark as food for some of the animals during the flood. What what not used was let go.
6. Food left over from the ark could have provided nourishment for some of the animals after the flood.
7. Different grasses and other vegetation would have sprouted up shortly after the flood.

But then again, you are now off topic from the original question. If you would like to discuss the food...START A NEW THREAD ON THAT TOPIC...as for now, please try to stay on topic. Address the original issue.

 

[TheSleepWalker]

Where are the global salt deposit that would have cover the entire earth in case of a global flood?

 

[lucaspa]

Is the Biblical account of the flood global or local?

It's not clear. It's their world that was flooded, and it is the local "mountains" that are flooded. However, in the Tigris-Euphrates Valley those "mountains" are molehills to everyone else.

 

[lucaspa]

If you do a geological survey in the area that the local flood contenders say the flood occured, you will discover that if the water covered the mountains, or high hills of that area...the flood HAD to have been much, much larger than local. We all know water seeks its own level.

If the Flood were the Tigris-Euphrates Valley -- the area of the local flood -- then the "mountains" are very small. The hills within the valley are not tall at all. If you have been watching the news of the Iraq war, you see that the geography is as flat as a griddle for the most part.

 

[lucaspa]

Bushido216 We also know that the water required for drowning the entire earth couldn't poof out of nowhere.

No one claimed the water poofed out of no where. Don't you read the bible Mr. Strawman????

GEN 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month--on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

Ark Guy, please try to discuss the idea and not the personality. There was no need to get personal with the "Mr. Strawman". The idea may be a strawman, but that is the idea, not Bushido.

However, I don't think the idea is a strawman.
You still have a problem with
1. Where the water came from?
2. Where did it go?

These passages reflect the Babylonian cosmology where there is a crystal dome over a flat earth and huge caverns underneath the flat earth. So you open the doors in the crystal dome "floodgates of the heavens" and let the waters of the caverns come out. However, we now know that there is no crystal dome and the moisture in the air is not enough to flood the whole earth. Nor are there huge caverns of water under the surface. Those could be detected by seismic waves generated in earthquakes. Aquifers are not going to empty like that.

So, while the story does give a source of water, that source does not really exist. Which brings us back to Bushido's question of water "poofing out of nowhere".

We also know that if Noah took only two of each kind, there'd be no animals left at all, since the carnivores would have IMMEDIATELY eaten the herbivores and then promptly died out.

It's obvious this character never heard of a simple device called a CAGE

NEXT​

That doesn't work. It's fine that you have cages on the Ark, but that still leaves the problem of fresh meat after a year on the Ark. Or even carrion meat. Any meat laid in by Noah before the voyage has long since spoiled. You have no mention of any fishing going on to provide food. Now, if you are going to go to the Bible as a source, that also should limit you to not adding things to the Bible, shouldn't it? So if the Bible doesn't mention fishing, it's because they didn't fish.

Of course, as soon as they are off the Ark, then the problem arises immediately. Yes, some predators will eat carrion, but any animals drowned for an entire year are going to be very "high" and not suitable food for lions, hyenas, etc. Those will eat fresh prey rather than the carrion, and thus there goes your pair of deer, antelope, wildebeest, rabbits,etc. Within hours or days of landing.

 

[Ark Guy]

lucaspa, here is a map of Iraq. As you see, You have been shown to have been incorrect..again. The flood would have been much larger than local.

http://www.uwec.edu/grossmzc/IraqElevation.htm