The Flood

[Soul Searcher]

This has probably been gone over before but I haven't seen it and am curious how those who believe a global flood occured deal with the problems that would likely arise just by the water being that high.

Things such as.

Thin air at such extreme elevation.
High winds
Frigid tempatures
Huge swells, likely larger than any ever seen.

 

[eri]

Hey, I'd be happy if they just answered the question of where all the water went.

I asked Jonathan Sarfati this at a talk he gave a few months ago, and he put up a picture of the Atlantic Ocean. Got a good laugh out of it from most of the audience - but the rest of us were simply shaking our heads in disbelief.

 

[Redac]

Goddidit, obviously.
​

 

[RevCowboy]

This has probably been gone over before but I haven't seen it and am curious how those who believe a global flood occured deal with the problems that would likely arise just by the water being that high.

Things such as.

Thin air at such extreme elevation.
High winds
Frigid tempatures
Huge swells, likely larger than any ever seen.

Why stop asking questions there?

What about the amount of water it would need to rain cover the earth in 40 days? I heard it was something like a swimming pool of water per hour per square meter.

What about the fact that cyprus would not maintain its structural integrity in a boat that size?

How could the ark possibly contain two of every animal?

How did Noah feed all those animals?

How did just Noah's sons and wives repopulate the earth?

And of course there are still questions regarding the text itself.

Why are there two distinct flood narratives intermingled with each other? One had 40 days and two of each animal, the other has 150 days of rain and 7 pairs of each animal clean and unclean.

What about the fact that the Biblical Flood narrative is nearly identical to both the Atrahasis and Gilgamesh epics which were written earlier.

What about the poetic and chiastic structure of the text show the point of the narrative is about God's interaction with Noah?

What about the fact that the flood that is only mentioned 13 times in the OT, and only once outside of Genesis 6-11.

What about the fact that the ark is only mentioned in the flood narrative?

What about the fact that Noah is only mentioned 3 times outside of the flood narrative in the OT?

Wow I sound like harsher critic than the atheists... and I am a Christian. But I guess the harshest criticism should come from within.

 

[TheOutsider]

This has probably been gone over before but I haven't seen it and am curious how those who believe a global flood occured deal with the problems that would likely arise just by the water being that high.

I hope you are ready for a metric ton of Ad Hoc explanations and absolutely zippo in the form of evidence.

 

[Soul Searcher]

Why stop asking questions there?

What about the amount of water it would need to rain cover the earth in 40 days? I heard it was something like a swimming pool of water per hour per square meter.

What about the fact that cyprus would not maintain its structural integrity in a boat that size?

How could the ark possibly contain two of every animal?

How did Noah feed all those animals?

How did just Noah's sons and wives repopulate the earth?

And of course there are still questions regarding the text itself.

Why are there two distinct flood narratives intermingled with each other? One had 40 days and two of each animal, the other has 150 days of rain and 7 pairs of each animal clean and unclean.

What about the fact that the Biblical Flood narrative is nearly identical to both the Atrahasis and Gilgamesh epics which were written earlier.

What about the poetic and chiastic structure of the text show the point of the narrative is about God's interaction with Noah?

What about the fact that the flood that is only mentioned 13 times in the OT, and only once outside of Genesis 6-11.

What about the fact that the ark is only mentioned in the flood narrative?

What about the fact that Noah is only mentioned 3 times outside of the flood narrative in the OT?

Wow I sound like harsher critic than the atheists... and I am a Christian. But I guess the harshest criticism should come from within.

I thought I would give em a break and just list a few.

 

[Washington]

This has probably been gone over before but I haven't seen it and am curious how those who believe a global flood occured deal with the problems that would likely arise just by the water being that high.

Things such as.

Thin air at such extreme elevation.
High winds
Frigid tempatures
Huge swells, likely larger than any ever seen.

More than these, the amount of water needed to cover the Earth to a depth 20 feet higher than the mountains is absolutely staggering. {Gen 7:20
"The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet "}



The following are the calculations that give us that figure.

"the global flood supposedly (Scripturally) covered the planet, and Mount Everest is 8,848 meters tall. The diameter of the earth at the equator, on the other hand, is 12,756.8 km. All we have to do is calculate the volume of water to fill a sphere with a radius of the Earth + Mount Everest; then we subtract the volume of a sphere with a radius of the Earth. Now, I know this won't yield a perfect result, because the Earth isn't a perfect sphere, but it will serve to give a general idea about the amounts involved.​

So, here are the calculations:​

First, Everest​

V= 4/3 * pi * r cubed​

= 4/3 * pi * 6387.248 km cubed​

= 1.09151 x 10 to the 12 cubic kilometres (1.09151x102 km3)​

Now, the Earth at sea level​

V = 4/3 * pi * r cubed​

= 4/3 * pi * 6378.4 km cubed​

= 1.08698 x 10 to the 12 cubic kilometres (1.08698x1012 km3)​

The difference between these two figures is the amount of water needed to just cover the Earth:​

4.525 x 10 to the ninth cubic kilometres (4.525x1009 km3) Or, to put into a more sensible number, 4,525,000,000,000 cubic kilometres [1,085,000,000,000 cubic miles. (1.085 trillion cubic miles)]​

source​

The amount of water in all the oceans is now 1, 321, 920,000 cubic kilometers [317,007,000 cubic miles]
source
Which means the amount of water needed to cover the world to the top of Mount Everest---not including the extra 20 feet--- is 3,422 times the amount of all the water now in the Earth's oceans

 

[Patashu]

There are a hell of a lot of problems with Noah's Ark and the global flood plus the conditions at the end.

talkorigins.com has a handy list of some:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html

My favourite is: Why did humans, when spreading out to repopulate the globe, not all take incredibly useful animals (horses, et cetera) with them?

This is good too: http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/may04.html

 

[Wiccan_Child]

It's always puzzled me why all marsupials went to Australia et al. All of them, without exception. I mean, either this is the biggest coincidence since the cake being a lie, or God is decieving us. Again.

 

[AV1611VET]

Things such as.

Thin air at such extreme elevation.
High winds
Frigid tempatures
Huge swells, likely larger than any ever seen.

When it came time for the Flood, God handled all the details concerning how nature would have interrupted His plans. As I'm fond of saying, nature is currently hostile to God's creation, yet obedient to God, Himself; as in the instance when Jesus stilled the waters, or when Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were put into the fiery furnace.

And speaking of the story of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, I have made this point before, that I don't think it outlandish that there was actually a ninth Person aboard the Ark.

 

[AV1611VET]

Hey, I'd be happy if they just answered the question of where all the water went.

God would have removed it, much as He translated Enoch, who disappeared without a trace.

[bible]Genesis 5:24[/bible]
[bible]Hebrews 11:5[/bible]

 

[Wiccan_Child]

This has probably been gone over before but I haven't seen it and am curious how those who believe a global flood occured deal with the problems that would likely arise just by the water being that high.

I shall play Devil's Advocate

Thin air at such extreme elevation.

This one I can answer seriously: there would be no thin air, since the Ark would be at sea level, and so the atmospheric pressure would be marginally below 1 Atmosphere (so marginal as to be neglible).

It's only thin air because it's so high up. With all that extra water, the air would be displaced accordingly.

High winds

I'm not sure what you mean. Why would there be particularily fast winds, and why would they cause a problem?

Frigid tempatures

Ah, this one is easy: they would be closer to the Sun, so the extra heat would counteract the cold

Huge swells, likely larger than any ever seen.

Another easy one: since the water is falling across the globe evenly, there would be no place for the swells to start!
Aah, specious logic is fun.

 

[eri]

Well that's convenient.


(in reply to AV)

 

[AV1611VET]

Goddidit, obviously.
​

Now that's the answer I look for in a good defender of the faith! (And I'm serious!)

Check your reps ---

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Now that's the answer I look for in a good defender of the faith! (And I'm serious!)

Check your reps ---

Somehow I don't think he was 'defending the faith'...

 

[Soul Searcher]

I shall play Devil's Advocate


This one I can answer seriously: there would be no thin air, since the Ark would be at sea level, and so the atmospheric pressure would be marginally below 1 Atmosphere (so marginal as to be neglible).

It's only thin air because it's so high up. With all that extra water, the air would be displaced accordingly.

I thought about that after I wrote the question. I think you are correct.

I'm not sure what you mean. Why would there be particularily fast winds, and why would they cause a problem?

At first I was thinking because there is always higher winds at higher elevations, don;t know how the higher sea level would effect that, but also because there is nothing to obstruct the wind making it free to swirl the entire globe.

Ah, this one is easy: they would be closer to the Sun, so the extra heat would counteract the cold

One could argue that the sea currents could bring warmth or that the cold air would be raised higher up I suppose, but right now higher usually means colder. Much colder when we are talking the tops of the highest mountians.

Another easy one: since the water is falling across the globe evenly, there would be no place for the swells to start!
Aah, specious logic is fun.

The swells are caused by the wind the moon and the mountians under the water. Better try again on that one.

 

[Patashu]

Did God make all the marsupials go to Australia and prevent all but a small group from keeping the horsies?

 

[AV1611VET]

Why stop asking questions there?

Oh, my! A "flood" of questions?

What about the amount of water it would need to rain cover the earth in 40 days? I heard it was something like a swimming pool of water per hour per square meter.

God could have sent five times that much water if He chose to.

What about the fact that cyprus would not maintain its structural integrity in a boat that size?

You mean gopher wood? And as I'm fond of saying, the Ark could have been made of Balsa wood for what it mattered.

How could the ark possibly contain two of every animal?

Not all the species boarded the Ark --- only their "kinds" did. For instance, only a coyote would have had to board, instead of all domestic dogs, wolves, and dingos.

How did Noah feed all those animals?

The same way He fed the widow of Zarephath ---

[bible]1 Kings 17:14-15[/bible]

--- or the Israelites in the wilderness ---

[bible]Exodus 16:15[/bible]

How did just Noah's sons and wives repopulate the earth?

The same way Adam and Eve did --- only three times faster.

And of course there are still questions regarding the text itself.

Never! ---

What about the fact that the Biblical Flood narrative is nearly identical to both the Atrahasis and Gilgamesh epics which were written earlier.

Because after the Flood, Noah's great-grandson Nimrod apostatized and founded the Babylonian Empire, from which came the Flood stories in myth form. Apparently Nimrod himself had trouble believing his great-grandfather.

 

[AV1611VET]

I hope you are ready for a metric ton of Ad Hoc explanations and absolutely zippo in the form of evidence.

As far as the explanations are concerned, God didn't explain them - (at least, not in writing). However, this doesn't mean that we cannot intelligently speculate; especially knowing how God handled the same situations later in the Bible - (for instance, q.v. my explanation about how the animals were fed). We are not totally ignorant of how God operates.

 

[Patashu]

How many pairs of beetles did Noah take on the ark?