The flat Earth parallel and other miscellaneous quotes

Assyrian · Dec 15, 2008

yeshuasavedme said:
You go to great lengths to disprove the Scriptures, when the Scriptures themselves are so straightforward themselves.

Just because I disagree with you does not mean I am trying to 'disprove scripture' I am just pointing out the flaws in you interpretation. As for the scriptures being straightforward, whatever makes you think that?

2Pet 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand.

Heb 5:11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food.

John 16:12 "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.

Mark 8:21 And he said to them, "Do you not yet understand?"

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

In the Scriptures it is written that angels/ ben Elohym [sons of God] married, but they married bath Adam [daughters of Adam[ Genesis 6:2], and they left their habitation in heaven to marry them on earth [Enoch 6; Jude 6]; so where is it written that in heaven the angels do not marry? -Only in Enoch. Jesus called Enochs writings Scriptures.
Jesus said the Sadducees erred, not knowing the Scriptures which teach plainly that in heaven the angels do not marry, and that in the resurrection those who attain to the resurrection of life will be like/equal with the angels.
Angels did marry, but they left heaven to do so, but in heaven they do not marry.

I have to answer your posts one point at a time, as the posts are way-y-y too long otherwise.
I'm trying to catch up, one at a time.

That interpretation of sons of God, bene elohim as angels was controversial back then as it is now. I would say Jesus' statement about angels not marrying actually contradicts it. How could the bene elohim marry and have children if they are angels when Jesus tells us angels do not marry?

yeshuasavedme said:
Are you saying the Hebrew text is wrong?

Click to expand...

Are you referencing a changed Hebrew Text?

No. You just talk of 'the ancient text' as if it said something different to the Hebrew texts we know today.

I have a Hebrew-English JPS interlinear that is useless for the original Hebrew, as the translators messed with the texts to make it "easier to understand" -according to their own bias' of course, which makes the Hebrew and the English nonsense for any useful purpose as to what the doctrine of the Word is, in so many prophetic texts.

They may also have a better knowledge of Hebrew than you.
He has set his tabernacle in the the sun,
and
He has set a tabernacle for the sun,
are both equally easy to understand. Only the second is is an accurate translation.

The ancient text states only "[He] set ]His] tabernacle [in the] sun. Thats why the Douay Rheims version Psalm 18:6 translates the words as "He hath set His tabernacle in the sun"
the ancient Hebrew says "set tabernacle sun"=[He] set [His] dwelling place [in the] sun.
suwm 1) to put, place, set, appoint, make
'ohel b) dwelling, home, habitation
shemesh a) sun

Here is the Hebrew word for the sun

H8121
שׁמשׁ
shemesh
sheh'-mesh
From an unused root meaning to be brilliant; the sun; by implication the east; figuratively a ray, that is, (architecturally) a notched battlement: - + east side (-ward), sun ([rising]), + west (-ward), window. See also H1053.
Strong's with Tense Voice and Mood

Now look at Psalm 19:4 in Hebrew.
בכל־הארץ יצא קום ובקצה תבל מליהם לשׁמשׁ שׂם־אהל בהם׃ Ps 19:4

Can you find shemesh?
Do you see the difference between shemesh in the Strong's definition and in the psalm?
שׁמשׁ
לשׁמשׁ

ל is the Hebrew letter lamed and it is a preposition meaning to or for. 'In' is a completely different preposition ב the letter bet. The Hebrew says the tent is for the sun.

In the Anti-Nicene Fathers volume 8, There is an ancient discussion of the passage in the Psalm translated as "in the sun He hath set His tabernacle" -taken from the Septuagint, probably. The author seeks a meaning other than that which is plain, but nevertheless, the Hebrew is translated as "in the sun He hath set His tabernacle". http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf08.iv.iii.html -Excerpts of Theodotus

Again the is the Septuagint, it is as you say a translation of the Hebrew, but it is a translation that has a reputation for departing quite radically form the literal meaning of the Hebrew when it suited them. And as the Hebrew scholars that gave you the JPS show you, as well as all our modern English bible translation whose translators are highly qualified hebrew scholars too, the Hebrew says for the sun.

Your way is nonsense too, as you deny that the sun runs the circuit of the entire heaven and that nothing is hid from the heat of it, in the entire heaven.
You want a sitting still, fixed sun; but the Scriptures state that the sun races over its appointed pathway, covering the entire heaven, from one end to the other ,and returns to its place and does it again, daily.

The sun is fixed, as far as the solar system is concerned anyway. So either the bible is wrong, or you misunderstand the way God speaks to us.

The only sense of the passage is that which the ancients translated it as, from the Hebrew: "in the sun He hath set His tabernacle" [as above referenced in the anti-nicene ]; and "He hath set His taberncalce in the sun"; Douay Rheims Psalm 18:6. http://www.newadvent.org/bible/psa018.htm

"Douay Rheims translated from the Latin Vulgate
Diligently Compared with the Hebrew, Greek,
and Other Editions in Divers Languages

First Published by the English College at Douay
A.D. 1609 & 1610";
So the Septuagint, the Vulgate, the Douay Rheims, all state "HE set His taberncale in the sun"; and the ancient writings of Theodotus [a rambling gnostic] tries to make a different meaning of what He means when He states "In the sun He hath set His tabernacle". That proves that the Scripture was translated from the Hebrew of old times to "He hath set His tabernacle in the sun".

The Douay is a translation of the Vulgate which is a translation of the LXX. Saying they all agree isn't much of an argument. Of course they agree. But the Hebrew is says the tent is for the sun.

yeshuasavedme said:
That is a translator bias. The word can be translated globe instead of world. Obviously Martinez means globe because the word means globe -and when he also translates "the circuit of the globe" it also means the circumference or circle of the globe. Translators are not inspired - and they are biased, and they may pick one word when another would tell the true story because they don't believe the true story.

Of course as a literalist you cannot see how a translator might use the phrase 'spans the globe' unless he meant a literal sphere. And of course every bible translators is showing his bias because they don't agree with you interpetation. You bring up another phrase with globe in it "the circuit of the globe" and like the last time you do not tell us what the Hebrew is. However if it is the word tebel or erets, they do not mean sphere.

Here's a potion of Hannah's psalm of praise, in which she praised YHWH inteligently and with understanding because she was a student of Enoch's writings -practically her whole psalm of praise comes from the revelations of Enoch, and from nowhere else.

1Sa 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, [and] lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set [them] among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth [are] the LORD'S, and he hath set the globeupon them.

Is that the AV you are quoting? Because the AV says 'the world' not the globe.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H8398&t=KJV

Click Here for the Rest of the Entry

You need to understand how language works. How do you think the meaning of a word can develop from moist, through fertile and inhabited to spherical? Moist ground is fertile and fertile land is inhabited. That is straight forward, words develop that way, but spherical? How does the meaning of spherical come from fertile? You need to understand how Genesius is using the phrase 'habitable globe', to describe the inhabited area of the whole world, rather than saying tebel itself carries the meaning of spherical. tebel describes the fertile and inhabited character of the inhabited globe, not the shape.

You have another problem in not believing God's Word in that when YHWH speaks of His judgements to come in the OT, for the inhabitants of the whole globe, you want it to not be for the dwellers of the entire earth after all, to accomodate your own bias against His declared Word.
You're letting the Olmecs and all the western continents' inhabitants and the inhabitants of all the islands of the seas off, from the judgments of God, because you don't believe God has spoken to all the inhabitants of the whole globe, by His prophets of old.

You are getting a bit tedious there with your judgementalism. Just because the Prophets of ancient Israel did not understand the shape of the earth does not mean God's word is not for South American and Australian Aborigines.

Assyrian · Dec 15, 2008

yeshuasavedme said:
NEBUCHADNEZZAR, king of kings, ruler of all the inhabitants of the globe wherever Adam, beasts or fowl dwelt, wrote this letter for all the inhabitants of the whole globe. The Olmecs and all the inhabitants of all the western continents and the inhabitants of all the islands of the seas received their own copy of this proclamation:

Dan 4:1 NEBUCHADNEZZAR the king,

To all peoples, nations, and languages that dwell in all the earth:
Peace be multiplied to you.
I thought it good to declare the signs and wonders that the Most High God has worked for me.
How great are His signs,
And how mighty His wonders!
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And His dominion is from generation to generation.

I, Nebuchadnezzar, was at rest in my house, and flourishing in my palace.
I saw a dream which made me afraid, and the thoughts on my bed and the visions of my head troubled me.
Therefore I issued a decree to bring in all the wise men of Babylon before me, that they might make known to me the interpretation of the dream.
Then the magicians, the astrologers, the Chaldeans, and the soothsayers came in, and I told them the dream; but they did not make known to me its interpretation.
But at last Daniel came before me (his name is Belteshazzar, according to the name of my god; in him is the Spirit of the Holy God), and I told the dream before him, saying:
"Belteshazzar, chief of the magicians, because I know that the Spirit of the Holy God is in you, and no secret troubles you, explain to me the visions of my dream that I have seen, and its interpretation.
"These were the visions of my head while on my bed:
I was looking, and behold,
A tree in the midst of the earth,
And its height was great.
The tree grew and became strong;
Its height reached to the heavens,
And it could be seen to the ends of all the earth.
Its leaves were lovely,
Its fruit abundant,
And in it was food for all.
The beasts of the field found shade under it,
The birds of the heavens dwelt in its branches,
And all flesh was fed from it.
"I saw in the visions of my head while on my bed, and there was a watcher, a holy one, coming down from heaven.
He cried aloud and said thus:
'Chop down the tree and cut off its branches,
Strip off its leaves and scatter its fruit.
Let the beasts get out from under it,
And the birds from its branches.
Nevertheless leave the stump and roots in the earth,
Bound with a band of iron and bronze,
In the tender grass of the field.
Let it be wet with the dew of heaven,
And let him graze with the beasts
On the grass of the earth.
Let his heart be changed from that of a man,
Let him be given the heart of a beast,
And let seven times pass over him.

'This decision is by the decree of the watchers,
And the sentence by the word of the holy ones,
In order that the living may know
That the Most High rules in the kingdom of men,
Gives it to whomever He will,
And sets over it the lowest of men.'

"This dream I, King Nebuchadnezzar, have seen. Now you, Belteshazzar, declare its interpretation, since all the wise men of my kingdom are not able to make known to me the interpretation; but you are able, for the Spirit of the Holy God is in you."

Then Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, was astonished for a time, and his thoughts troubled him. So the king spoke, and said, "Belteshazzar, do not let the dream or its interpretation trouble you." Belteshazzar answered and said,
"My lord, may the dream concern those who hate you, and its interpretation concern your enemies!
The tree that you saw, which grew and became strong, whose height reached to the heavens and which could be seen by all the earth,
whose leaves were lovely and its fruit abundant, in which was food for all, under which the beasts of the field dwelt, and in whose branches the birds of the heaven had their home--
it is you, O king, who have grown and become strong; for your greatness has grown and reaches to the heavens, and your dominion to the end of the earth.
And inasmuch as the king saw a watcher, a holy one, coming down from heaven and saying, 'Chop down the tree and destroy it, but leave its stump and roots in the earth, bound with a band of iron and bronze in the tender grass of the field; let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let him graze with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him';
this is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the Most High, which has come upon my lord the king:
They shall drive you from men, your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make you eat grass like oxen. They shall wet you with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He chooses.
And inasmuch as they gave the command to leave the stump and roots of the tree, your kingdom shall be assured to you, after you come to know that Heaven rules.
Therefore, O king, let my advice be acceptable to you; break off your sins by being righteous, and your iniquities by showing mercy to the poor. Perhaps there may be a lengthening of your prosperity."

All this came upon King Nebuchadnezzar.
At the end of the twelve months he was walking about the royal palace of Babylon.
The king spoke, saying, "Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for a royal dwelling by my mighty power and for the honor of my majesty?"
While the word was still in the king's mouth, a voice fell from heaven: "King Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is spoken: the kingdom has departed from you!
And they shall drive you from men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field. They shall make you eat grass like oxen; and seven times shall pass over you, until you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He chooses."
That very hour the word was fulfilled concerning Nebuchadnezzar; he was driven from men and ate grass like oxen; his body was wet with the dew of heaven till his hair had grown like eagles' feathers and his nails like birds' claws.

And at the end of the time I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted my eyes to heaven, and my understanding returned to me; and I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him who lives forever:

For His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
And His kingdom is from generation to generation.
All the inhabitants of the globe are reputed as nothing;
He does according to His will in the army of heaven
And among the inhabitants of the earth.
No one can restrain His hand
Or say to Him, "What have You done?"

At the same time my reason returned to me, and for the glory of my kingdom, my honor and splendor returned to me. My counselors and nobles resorted to me, I was restored to my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added to me.
Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and extol and honor the King of heaven, all of whose works are truth, and His ways justice. And those who walk in pride He is able to put down.

If that is the New King James Version you are quoting as your link suggests, it says earth not globe.

Dan 4:35
For His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
And His kingdom is from generation to generation.
All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing;
He does according to His will in the army of heaven
And among the inhabitants of the earth.
No one can restrain His hand
Or say to Him, "What have You done?"

yeshuasavedme · Dec 20, 2008

Assyrian said:
If that is the New King James Version you are quoting as your link suggests, it says earth not globe.

Dan 4:35
For His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
And His kingdom is from generation to generation.
All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing;
He does according to His will in the army of heaven
And among the inhabitants of the earth.
No one can restrain His hand
Or say to Him, "What have You done?"

Edit: I did wrongly give Globe for earth in that one -I just checked. You're right. I was making the point that the word tebel means globe, and I did not check the original word in Hebrew for that one. I'll be more careful -but I do make mistakes..

tebel means globe/world. Eretz means earth/land and adamah means ground/dust.

The translators are biased , and I will give globe for tebel/world in the future. -I also always give Adam instead of "man" when the Hebrew says Adam, and now I will be giving globe for tebel instead of world..
Nebuchadnezzar was king of kings and ruled over all who dwelt on earth, on the entire globe, whereever Adam, beasts or fowl dwelt. At that time, Central and South America were well settled, and the king of the Olmecs who dwelt in what is now Mexico was ruled by Nebuchadnazzer.
God's Word does say so.
Daniel spoke to Nebuchadnazzer by the revelation of God and revealed the meaning of his dream;
Dan 2:19 Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven..
Dan 2:20 Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: Dan 2:22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what [is] in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him. Dan 2:23 I thank thee, and praise thee, O thou God of my fathers, who hast given me wisdom and might, and hast made known unto me now what we desired of thee: for thou hast [now] made known unto us the king's matter.

Dan 2:37 Thou, O king, [art] a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. Dan 2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou [art] this head of gold.

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 19, 2010

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pgp_protector · Jul 19, 2010

LittleLambofJesus said:
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You Subscribed to a Zombie Thread

yeshuasavedme · Oct 27, 2010

LittleLambofJesus said:
LLOJ subscribes

So let's continue, then.

The B-L etymons of the Hebrew word "Tebel" mean " to swell", as in "ball", "bulb" "globe", etc. The English translators who translated "world" for tebel" did so in biased ignorance of the doctrines of the Word and in unbelief of the Word of God itself. All who continue to follow them continue the ignorance.
The Hebrew masoretic text is much later than the Septuagint, which was translated to Greek from Hebrew before the Christian era, and that translation of the Hebrew to Greek said: "He set His tabernacle/dwelling place in the sun", and it said it because the Hebrew they translated from, said it.
That is not the only place where God's dwelling place where God's dwelling place is referenced as in the sun, for Isaiah 18:4, in the Hebrew, say the same: His dwelling place is set in the "the Dazzling hot sun".

The flat Earth parallel and other miscellaneous quotes

Assyrian

Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)

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Assyrian

Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)

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yeshuasavedme

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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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pgp_protector

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yeshuasavedme

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The flat Earth parallel and other miscellaneous quotes

Assyrian

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