• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

The First Christian Churches

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,320
58
Boyertown, PA.
✟816,515.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
I am working on doing a video in my ongoing effort to slowly build some kind of Christian video ministry / Blog thingy. :) Which is going admittedly slowly. But anyway I am looking at doing a video on the next "Low Hanging Fruit" and I picked this topic because I was already thinking about in in light of such topics as Holiness and Christian Sacramentalism.

I decided to post here because I thought people might be interested in it, but maybe less willing to look at one of my videos. So I am going to data dump here and edit out things later so other newcomers will have a hard time reading through things.

May also rewrite some things. I tend to blog stuff like this previously was treating my Facebook wall as a bit of a blog. Anyway I would things in terms of people assuming a lot of modern stuff concerning the ancient Christians. Anyway I am about to data dump a long scroller and will look to polish things up later, maybe with multiple posts because my copy and paste from a Word processor should definitely "be a long scroller".
 

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,320
58
Boyertown, PA.
✟816,515.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
The First Christian Churches Series


Intro

In past times, I have been part of various online and real life groups that have questioned some of the traditional assumptions of Christianity. This presentation I’ve made in the past in rebuttal to claims made by the audience described in “WHAT DO I NEED TO GO TO CHURCH FOR? I AM THE CHURCH!” Such people have been described as Postmodern and “Emergent Church” Evangelicals, who seemed to question the value of attending a local church. Many of these people were influenced by works like Frank Viola’s “Pagan Christianity” (A work that falsely claims most of Christianity’s traditional of large scale worship surface comes from pagan origins.). The basic outline of this post came from a Coptic Church history lecture given at a Wednesday Church service in lieu of the traditional homily.



Upper Rooms were the 1st churches, part 1

Well I'll try to keep this simple and easy. One of the problems with folks that idealize the old house churches scene in the Bible and see that as an ideal for today, is those "churches" are much different than most people's domestic prayer meetings and Bible studies.

Part of the problem is culture. If you are an American or at least a Westerner chances are your house or apartment is loaded up with a whole lot of bulky, yet comfortable furniture. This limits how many people your average American will invite over to his house fellowship group.

The houses of ancient times were very different than those of today.

The upper room mentioned in the New Testament was much more the norm. The ancient house often was essentially a 1st floor apartment, with a large multipurpose room above, That room was made for a variety of things including having large dinners and other gatherings. At such gatherings many people could be seated at multiple tables using bench seating.

Besides this the culture was a bit different than ours. It kind of reminds me of some movies like "My Big Fat Greek Wedding". On average the people of ancient times were a bit more in to entertaining large groups of people than your average American.

This sort of insight is important because I think people can easily see the ancient house churches as a bit of a coffee clutch, when the meetings were much more geared to group worship and fellowship than what modern people are use to. In other words, the seating and square footage of a house church was much more in keeping with that of a small parish church or chapel than your modern American living room can handle.


The first churches part 2. The First churches came from free will offerings, much like what we see in the Book of Acts. Acts 2:44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 Selling their possessions and goods, they shared with anyone who was in need.

Rather than ponying up their real-estate to be sold to meet the needs of poor and apostles, the believers surrendered properties to the head of the local church so there would be an official permanent place for local believers to meet.

When Jesus first sent out the disciples on their first missionary journey he gave them the advice “to not move around from house to house” but rather to settle in one house where they were welcome. (Luke 10:7) There is a lot of practical and spiritual reasons for this but the most obvious is it prevents confusion and uncertainty for people to always know where the church meeting is going to be held. And this certainty and stability is good for the health and growth of the church, much like the scripture says of “tree planted by streams of water that yields it fruit in season”.




Unity in worship (The first church’s series)

One of the things the early churches had was the idea of unity in worship. They saw themselves as being part of the same family and same “body of Christ”. They met together as a way of expressing that unity and in worshipping God.

This is an important point not just in theology and Church history but when dealing with some false claims “That large Cathedrals are pagan” etc. 1st of all that isn’t even true when you look at the history of Israel. Israel had a large scale worship in the worship that took place at the tabernacle and also the temple. 2nd if you are governed by a principle that wants all believers in a city or area to unite in worship that means you will eventually need large buildings when the size of believers increases from evangelism and population growth.

John 17:

20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

Acts 2

The Fellowship of the Believers

42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

1 John 2

18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Ignatius to Polycarp (Ignatius of Antioch born AD 50 died 97-117)

CHAPTER 6

6:1 Give ye heed to the bishop, that God also may

give heed to you. I am devoted to those who are

subject to the bishop, the presbyters, the deacons.

May it be granted me to have my portion with them in

the presence of God. Toil together one with another,

struggle together, run together, suffer together, lie

down together, rise up together, as God's stewards and

assessors and ministers.




The Multiplication of Houses of Worship (The First Christian churches series)

Well I’m going to wrap things up, but will do one last post aimed at how Houses of Worship multiplied in the early days of Christianity. There were really two reasons that caused churches (church buildings that is) in a given region to multiply.

1) I previously mentioned that the Church of a given area tried to worship together much like what we see in the early book of Acts. However, as the Church grows it needs to keep moving into bigger and bigger building or areas.

2) But there was also another factor at work. That of the Church retaining some Jewish ideas about holiness.

(Quote from Jewishencylopedia.com)

All things become "holy" that are excluded from common or profane use ("ḥol"; I Sam. xxi. 5) by being connected with the worship of God: (1) The places in which God is supposed to dwell or where He appeared (Ex. iii. 5; Josh. v. 15; Deut. xxiii. 15; II Chron. viii. 11); hence, every sanctuary ("miḳdash," Ex. xxv. 8, or "ḳodesh," Ex. xxviii. 29; Ezek. xlii. 20), and every part of the sanctuary, and every vessel used therein (Ex. xxvi. 33; I Sam. xxi. 6; Ezek. xlii. 13; Num. iii. 31). Such a place with its site was marked off as holy (Ex. xix. 23; Ezek. xlv. 1). The hill of the Temple (Isa. xi. 9 and elsewhere) became "the holy hill"; Jerusalem, "the holy city" (Ps. xlvi. 5; Zeph. iii. 11; Isa. xlviii. 2); and Palestine, "the holy land" (Zech. ii. 16; comp. Hosea ix. 3-4). God's heavenly habitation, "the seat of His holiness," is holy, because of His unapproachable (fiery) majesty (Micah i. 2; Hab. ii. 20; and elsewhere); so, likewise, is "the throne of His holiness" (Ps. xlvii. 9; comp. Ezek. xxviii. 14: "the fiery mountain of the [heathen] gods").

Commentary

Things that are Holy stay consecrated and kept in the service of God. In other words they are not supposed to be taken back and used for everyday common use. So even though the main congregation moved on these areas were still kept as local holy places.

So what this meant for the young Church, as the local Church of a given area grew into being able to have Cathedral sized congregations there would be a number of smaller sanctuaries available in the city or region. Which was good because it probably didn’t take long to for a Church of a given city or region to reach its capacity where there was more people attending than what they seat or that could here the message preached (before modern speaker sound systems). So eventually all those smaller structures became necessary to be local parishes, chapels, and shrines.




Many Thanks to Father Salib Girgis

Most stuff I talk about comes from my own research but abouna is to be accredited for most of the Early Church series. And I will add this is hard topic to research (not many write about it). But thankfully one of the Coptic Bishops studied it and passed it on to Father Salib and I likewise pass it on to you. This actually is the Christian way. :)

Corinthians 11:2

Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 ►

So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter. (the word teaching, or tradition is "paradosis" in the Greek and literally refers to something that is entrusted to a person that is to be passed on to another.
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,320
58
Boyertown, PA.
✟816,515.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Not too bad. The interface wanted to cough up an error with my previous saved pics, so I just deleted them, but may edit some things back in.

I may take half of the upper post and repost here basically rewrite as the last half of the document, with maybe a picture or two added.
OK people can post now if they want.

Stuff to put in.

View attachment 318595
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,320
58
Boyertown, PA.
✟816,515.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
dura-europos-baptistry-overview-J3BNPJ.jpg
 
  • Winner
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,320
58
Boyertown, PA.
✟816,515.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
This is baptistry from Dura Europa the oldest Christian Church we know about other than the Martyrs hiding in the Catacombs etc.


Dura-Europos church
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Location of the church in Dura-Europos, marked as M8

Isometric drawing of the church
The Dura-Europos church (or Dura-Europos house church) was the earliest-identified Christian house church.[1] It was located in Dura-Europos, Syria, and was one of the earliest-known Christian churches,[2] and seems to have occupied an ordinary house that was converted for worship some time between 233 and 256. In 256, the town was abandoned after the Persian siege.[3] It was less famous, smaller, and more-modestly decorated than the nearby Dura-Europos synagogue, though there are many similarities between them.
 
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,320
58
Boyertown, PA.
✟816,515.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
This is quite helpful - keep it going...

Um well that was the lecture but I guess I could go on Q and A and other stuff. And probably keep it going depending on input etc.

I basically posted this since I'm using my old blog posts as lecture notes/ prep for a future video session.

thanks for the encouragement!
 
  • Winner
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,320
58
Boyertown, PA.
✟816,515.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
I lived in an old stone Arab house in Jerusalem, Big room top floor. Bottom floor was for animals in winter. Typical of what would have been the places meetings were held.

Nice! That's great input. I've been wanting to get more info on this to back up the presentation for the various would be nay-sayers that I might someday meet. Lots of things are easy to research over the internet, but you do find some tricky topics dealing with antiquity where even with our wealth of information either nothing much is there or you really need to sift through pages and pages of junk or stuff that is more relevant to other topics to find a few gold nuggets for what you are looking for. This assumes you are basically doing things on the cheap and not shelling out lots of money for rare books, college classes and so on.
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
15,554
10,400
79
Auckland
✟439,950.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Nice! That's great input. I've been wanting to get more info on this to back up the presentation for the various would be nay-sayers that I might someday meet. Lots of things are easy to research over the internet, but you do find some tricky topics dealing with antiquity where even with our wealth of information either nothing much is there or you really need to sift through pages and pages of junk or stuff that is more relevant to other topics to find a few gold nuggets for what you are looking for. This assumes you are basically doing things on the cheap and not shelling out lots of money for rare books, college classes and so on.

I can supply a photo...

Stone walls about three feet thick...

In the suburb of Gilo...
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Pavel Mosko
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,320
58
Boyertown, PA.
✟816,515.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
I can supply a photo...

Stone walls about three feet thick...

In the suburb of Gilo...

That would be appreciated! Your posts reminds me of this History Channel presentation on the Lost Tribes of Israel that I got a lot of mileage out of. I think they briefly showed or mentioned some farm houses similar to what your talking about.

Some of the Islamic lands kept the traditions of their former Jewish ancestors because they came from the Jews of the Diaspora where those old practices were ingrained and they were somewhat isolated from most of Islam. One of the interesting things was them doing things like having Cities of Refugee and even doing some animal sacrifice like what is seen in Genesis.

Another interesting tid bit lots of people don't know today. The Samaritans are still around, and they are a lot like their ancient ancestors! Albeit more traditionally Jewish that you might expect.

Samaritan | Encyclopedia.com

Samaritans Facts for Kids
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,320
58
Boyertown, PA.
✟816,515.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
15,516
8,183
50
The Wild West
✟760,174.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,320
58
Boyertown, PA.
✟816,515.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single

That place looks impressive!

On a different subject, because of various modern fiction movies and TV shows and sometimes real life events and stories, I'm kind of surprised how easy to break into 99% of our homes and dwelling are in the modern era, compared to earlier times. I'm talking about large glass windows, sliding doors etc. While that house almost looks like a Medieval Keep, or large Manor House, or small Borg. Definitely a defensible place in one of those End of the World Apocalypse stories like the Walking Dead, I am Legend etc.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,320
58
Boyertown, PA.
✟816,515.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Incidentally I did do a video on my the above material. It was a really streamlined compared to my notes, just to have something that was easy to keep in my head and not have to read it. I think the rehearsal of doing the thread and using jump cut editing paid off.



And I tend to archive things like that on my Blog here

The Ancient Paths Blog
 
Upvote 0

Carl Emerson

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2017
15,554
10,400
79
Auckland
✟439,950.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You lived in THAT? Dude, are you secretly an Emir or a Sheikh or an oil baron or what? ;)

Seriously, that’s an amazing house…

It even has battlements! Crenellations, for archers…

That is the very house where I prayed for a lady having a heart attack and she was healed...
 
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,320
58
Boyertown, PA.
✟816,515.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
That is the very house where I prayed for a lady having a heart attack and she was healed...


Did you sit on the roof to cool off in Summer, in the afternoon/evening like they are suppose to do in the Middle East? Also did you have air conditioning?
 
Upvote 0