The Feast Days

Frogster · Sep 22, 2013

tturt said:
thanks Faulty - hadn't noticed that verse previously.

Observing the Sabbath and the feasts of The Lord are ways for us to honor Him and in ways He said. What an opportunity we have.

when the Galatians were told by those who were teaching them that they should keep the jewish calendar, to no "doubt please God", and become a covenant person, Paul said he wasted his time on the church.

4:10 You observe days and months and seasons and years! 11 I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.

Frogster · Sep 22, 2013

Faulty said:
Later revelation doesn't imply conflicting revelation. Both exist in harmony with each other and always will.

but if that later revelation, teaches us things, that should be our guide, there were things hidden, and the now revealed teaches us things. Look how it is all about the Spirutal church in eph 3, right after jewish law abolishment in 2, laws that contained feasts, foods, sabbath etc, and look how Paul stressses no sabbath for gentiles, or food laws, and feasts right in Col 2. Soooo just sayin, that is later revelation, unless you think you must circumcise your children on the 8th day, and abstain from such foods listed in the law?

Frogster · Sep 22, 2013

psalms 91 said:
If you are outside the law then you are not saved as Jesus said that those who love Him will obey Him and He kept all if these and also sais that He came to fulfill the Law, not do away with it. It also says that we are grafted intoi the vine so if you claim to be a stranger or a gentile or iuncircumcised then you are not part of the Lord as it says we are circumsized in the heart.

I know that he separated the flesh, not by hands, as he said that in a derogatory manner in eph 2:11 speaking of circumcision, however, we are not saved by law, we are not under law, the gentiles never had the law. The most important thing was, justified Abraham, without law, by grace, law voids the promise Rom 4, in fact, Paul used Abe to ward off the law teachers. Soooooo...

besides, we are of the true circumcision, the one that cut off flesh, not the circumcision that made one follow the written code in Gal 5:3. Big difference, you may want to read Phil 3, for more, take care bro, frog.

Frogster · Sep 22, 2013

this is what Paul said of himself, right after he did not want them observing feasts, and sabbath in 4:10-11.

Amplified 4:12 Brethren, I beg of you, become as I am [free from the bondage of Jewish ritualism and ordinances], for I also have become as you are a Gentile]. You did me no wrong in the days when I first came to you; do not do it now].

cyberlizard · Sep 22, 2013

yes it would appear Paul disagreed with Jesus, the Prophets and Moses himself.

Steve

p.s. otherwise you have fallen victim to what Peter warned you about, that his words are twisted by those opposed to the Law.

psalms 91 · Sep 22, 2013

Frogster said:
I know that he separated the flesh, not by hands, as he said that in a derogatory manner in eph 2:11 speaking of circumcision, however, we are not saved by law, we are not under law, the gentiles never had the law. The most important thing was, justified Abraham, without law, by grace, law voids the promise Rom 4, in fact, Paul used Abe to ward off the law teachers. Soooooo...

besides, we are of the true circumcision, the one that cut off flesh, not the circumcision that made one follow the written code in Gal 5:3. Big difference, you may want to read Phil 3, for more, take care bro, frog.

We are not under the law only if we are led by the spirit, many are not and if we are led by the spirit then we will fulfill thye law. You cant get away from the fact that the law shows us sin and shows us that it is only through Christ that we can fulfill the law of righteousness. The law shows us our sin and Christ shows us how to overcome it.

Frogster · Sep 22, 2013

cyberlizard said:
yes it would appear Paul disagreed with Jesus, the Prophets and Moses himself.

Steve

p.s. otherwise you have fallen victim to what Peter warned you about, that his words are twisted by those opposed to the Law.

he does not mention the law in 2 peter 3, as he called paul his beloved brother, and srand in gracr in chapter 5, just like Paul in rom 5:2.

don't forget, peter called the law a yoke, he nor the fathers could bear in acts 15.

did you like the luke support for Paul that I posted?

Frogster · Sep 22, 2013

psalms 91 said:
We are not under the law only if we are led by the spirit, many are not and if we are led by the spirit then we will fulfill thye law. You cant get away from the fact that the law shows us sin and shows us that it is only through Christ that we can fulfill the law of righteousness. The law shows us our sin and Christ shows us how to overcome it.

well yes, I agree, led by the Spirit, not under law, gal 5:18.

But under law, sin gets aroused, check out these verses that show the sin law conjunction.

It says sin will have dominion under law in Rom 6:14, the law was added to increase the trespass in Rom 5:20, not take it away, sinful passions were by law in Rom 7:5, sin used the command in 7:8 and 7:11, sin is dead apart from the law, APART, from the law in 7:8 meaning that sin comes alive under law, the power of sin is the law 1 Cor 15:56.

In other words, best to leave the law on the cross, where it died with the body of christ, for real victorious living, the just shall live by faith, and the law is not of faith, gal 3:11-12.

Frogster · Sep 22, 2013

but anway, the feasts were in the law, and we are not bound by feasts.

If the Lord comes back on trumpets, fine, but there is wide debate on all these issues, but all and all, it is a fun chat, thanks, frog.

who goes to jerusalem to the temple that is not there, to keep feasts?

Faulty · Sep 22, 2013

Frogster said:
but if that later revelation, teaches us things, that should be our guide, there were things hidden, and the now revealed teaches us things. Look how it is all about the Spirutal church in eph 3, right after jewish law abolishment in 2, laws that contained feasts, foods, sabbath etc, and look how Paul stressses no sabbath for gentiles, or food laws, and feasts right in Col 2. Soooo just sayin, that is later revelation, unless you think you must circumcise your children on the 8th day, and abstain from such foods listed in the law?

You still don't have a clue what I've been talking about.

The command to the Jews to observe the the feast days were under the Law, but the feast days themselves were not. Please try to understand the difference.

I've tried explaining this in several posts before. If you can't understand the difference, then we can't discuss it because we wouldn't be talking about the same thing.

Frogster · Sep 22, 2013

Faulty said:
You still don't have a clue what I've been talking about.

The command to the Jews to observe the the feast days were under the Law, but the feast days themselves were not. Please try to understand the difference.

I've tried explaining this in several posts before. If you can't understand the difference, then we can't discuss it because we wouldn't be talking about the same thing.

then why weren't they given to gentiles, i posted smple verses that show it, i posted gal 4, col 2, and for 14-17 years, paul did not even go to jerusalem, to keep feasts.

are you saying feasts were not commanded?

Leviticus 23:4
These are the set feasts or appointed seasons of the Lord, holy convocations you shall proclaim at their stated times:

Leviticus 23:37
These are the set feasts or appointed seasons of the Lord, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to present an offering made by fire to the Lord, a burnt offering and a cereal offering, sacrifices and drink offerings, each on its own day.

Leviticus 23:44
Thus Moses declared to the Israelites the set or appointed feasts of the Lord.

Ezekiel 44:24
And in a controversy they shall act as judges, and they shall judge according to My judgments; and they shall keep My laws and My statutes in all My appointed feasts, and they shall keep My Sabbaths holy.

Frogster · Sep 22, 2013

2 Chronicles 31:3
He appointed also the king's portion of his substance for the burnt offerings, to wit, for the morning and evening burnt offerings, and the burnt offerings for the sabbaths, and for the new moons, and for the set feasts, as it is written in the law of the Lord.

cyberlizard · Sep 22, 2013

There are some on here who are happy to learn theoretically about the Festivals and how they relate to Messiah and his work.

There are some on here that are happy to learn practically by tasting and seeing that the Lord is good by celebrating the Festivals and understanding hands on how they relate to Messiah and his work.

Finally there are some on here that feel that it is bondage to participate in the above.

Personally, I encourage everyone to taste and see through the Festivals that the Lord is good.

Steve

p.s. for those who feel Christian belivers should not have any part in this, do us a favour and express your opinions once, not everyone wants a theoretical debate. For some, experience triumphs intellect at all times.

Frogster · Sep 22, 2013

cyberlizard said:
There are some on here who are happy to learn theoretically about the Festivals and how they relate to Messiah and his work.

There are some on here that are happy to learn practically by tasting and seeing that the Lord is good by celebrating the Festivals and understanding hands on how they relate to Messiah and his work.

Finally there are some on here that feel that it is bondage to participate in the above.

Personally, I encourage everyone to taste and see through the Festivals that the Lord is good.

Steve

p.s. for those who feel Christian belivers should not have any part in this, do us a favour and express your opinions once, not everyone wants a theoretical debate. For some, experience triumphs intellect at all times.

some like shadows, some like substance...

16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

Why did the Galatians experience the Spirit, without festivals, as per gal 3?

Grafted In · Sep 22, 2013

My take on the whole things is that I am in no way bound to keep any of the Feasts,nor am I bound by any part of The Law. 1 Corinthians 10:23 . BUT,I understand the incredible wealth of understand that learning about these things can give a person. The Law given to the Jews is,as I have come to understand,a tremendous teaching tool...a way to understand and know Jesus in a deeper way. I think it's sad that the church at some point made much effort to separate itself from things Jewish. We don't celebrate the risen Christ on the Feast of First Fruits. In stead we celebrate a kind of "yay,spring is here" which really is a throwback to a Babylonian celebration of fertility. So the true meaning of why we celebrate is lost to the majority of the church. There is no reason for any believer to fear becoming legalistic if they search out these things. The entire Old Testament,in my opinion is a teaching tool,full of types and shadows of what will be fulfilled by Christ and just who He is. There's a reason for The Feast of Passover. God was revealing to the Jews about Himself being the REAL Passover Lamb. He fulfilled the first 4 Feast when he came,was crucified, buried,raised from the dead and sent The Holy Spirit. These things did not occur on just any old day but on actual Feast days. Even His entrance into Jerusalem 4 days prior to His crucifixion fulfilled a Law given to Moses regarding the selection of a perfect lamb for each family to sacrifice on Passover. The were told to separate it from the others and observe it for four days to be certain it was without spot or blemish. Then, He was Crucified on the first Feast day,the Feast of Passover,again not just any day,but the very day the Jewish people fled Eguipt. The blood of the lamb got them out,just like The Blood of the Lamb got us out of the bondage of sin. He was buried on the Feast of Unleavened Bread,not just any old day. Then He was raised from the dead on the Feast of First Fruits ( 1 Corinthians 15:23 ),again not just any old day. Finally He sent The Holy Spirit on The Feast of Pentecost. That day is the same day that Moses brought down The Law. 2 Corinthians 3:6. Each of the first 4 laws were fulfilled by Jesus in direct coloration with the meaning of the written Law. The very next Law to be fulfilled is The Feast of Trumpets. How likely is it the He will choose just any old day to fulfill that Feast Day.
I realize that these things are old hat to many of the membership but for those not familiar with The Feast Days I can tell you that learning about them won't make you legalistic,nor will it bind you to keeping any of it,but I think,as it did for me, it will give you a much deeper understanding of just who Jesus really is. Most of what I've learned has been by watching Zola,but in resent years others have begun teaching things from the Jewish perspective, as well. You can still watch many of Zola's programs if you go to Zola Levitt Ministries Television . Scroll down and you will find his Feast Days programs. Another series I like are The Temple shows. Sadly some of his original Feast shows were redone by him later on,and Zola died several years ago. Personally I preferred them over his newer ones,but the teaching is the same. Check them out sometime if you get bored. Like I said,you aren't bound by any of this,but there are HUGE nuggets of understanding if you search them out. I thank God He led me to find Zola's show over 30 years ago! Bill

psalms 91 · Sep 22, 2013

cyberlizard said:
There are some on here who are happy to learn theoretically about the Festivals and how they relate to Messiah and his work.

There are some on here that are happy to learn practically by tasting and seeing that the Lord is good by celebrating the Festivals and understanding hands on how they relate to Messiah and his work.

Finally there are some on here that feel that it is bondage to participate in the above.

Personally, I encourage everyone to taste and see through the Festivals that the Lord is good.

Steve

p.s. for those who feel Christian belivers should not have any part in this, do us a favour and express your opinions once, not everyone wants a theoretical debate. For some, experience triumphs intellect at all times.

I wholeheartedly agree

Frogster · Sep 22, 2013

psalms 91 said:
I wholeheartedly agree

in other words, eph 2 says he is our peace, dontcha see how all these additions are a distraction, and compensation?

dontcha think the false teachers in Col, had all kinds of "noble" ideas as why they should keep feasts? Paul said watch out, for that kind of argument!

we are complete IN HIM, he says in him about 7 times in chapter 2, to show why additions are not needed. IN HIM>>>>

Frogster · Sep 22, 2013

psalms 91 said:
I wholeheartedly agree

in other words, for centuries the jewish people had the shadows, the feasts, the temple, etc, and for the most part, they reject their messiah, even though they had all that..

Ok, now here comes Paul, chosen by Christ, who brings all this glorious grace and revelation, that he was beaten up for, just about everyday, for the most part because of us gentiles, and because the jews did not like us..

so what do we get from certain MJ circles, Paul and his revelation? No, we get the same old shadows after all these centuries...after all those beatings, that is what i mean by diversions, and distractions. Instead of new food, we get old food, and sadly gentiles fall right into the seduction, the booty/captive, 2:8, and 2:4 of Colossians, as Paul called it, is what they become, missing the true riches.

8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits[a] of the world, and not according to Christ.

Messy · Sep 22, 2013

Frogster said:
in other words, for centuries the jewish people had the shadows, the feasts, the temple, etc, and for the most part, they reject their messiah..

Ok, now here comes Paul, chosen by Christ, who brings all this glorious grace and revelation, that he was beaten up for, just about everyday, for the most part because of us gentiles, and because the jews did not like us..

so what do we get from certain MJ circles, Paul and his revelation? No, we get the same old shadows after all these centuries...after all those beatings, that is what i mean by diversions, and distractions. Instead of new food, we get old food, and sadly gentiles fall right into the seduction, the booty/captive, 2:8, and 2:4 of Colossians, as Paul called it, is what they become, missing the true riches.

8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits[a] of the world, and not according to Christ.

Come on man, feasts are fun! You don't have to keep them.

I think I'll attend a meeting, the kids would love it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL2F07270356675DB2&v=p1FcPYVgOIE&feature=player_detailpage

tturt · Sep 23, 2013

Excellent post, Grafted in. I've studied some on The Tabernacle too. I say some because there's so much. What other topic covers 50 chapters in The Bible? That fact alone should tell us there are gems there.

Plus they're in the future Zeh 14:16 "And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles."

posted:... learning about them won't make you legalistic,nor will it bind you to keeping any of it,but I think,as it did for me, it will give you a much deeper understanding of just who Jesus really is (Grafted In). Exactly.

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