The fall and creation

[Gnarwhal]

What are your thoughts on the role of and impact on creation itself regarding mankind's rebellion against God aka the fall? When man rebelled and his relationship with God fractured, did creation's relationship with God also fracture? Could this explain the violent nature of meteorological and geological events that we've seen down through the centuries (as opposed to the charge that some Christians wish to level: that God's exacting punishment against people through nature).

What are your thoughts and how did you arrive at your conclusion?

 

[Knee V]

"For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God." Romans 8:20-21 (NKJV)

Creation was not always in the condition in which we find it today. Rather, it was subjected to this condition against its will. Our sin had profound ramifications not only to ourselves, but also to the world around us. And it is Death that is the fruit of our sin. All of creation "died" when we sinned. Although the "stamp of God" is on everything, we also see creation's death everywhere we look. Everything is decaying and wasting away. It occurs at the micro level all the way to the macro level, from the decay of atoms to the expansion of the universe.

Indeed, not everything "bad" that happens is a punishment. Some things are just the natural result of certain actions. We tore ourselves away from God, who is the source of Life, and we thus began to die, dragging all of creation with us. We now live in a world that is dying and which is hostile to life on all levels.

 

[Gnarwhal]

"For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God." Romans 8:20-21 (NKJV)

Creation was not always in the condition in which we find it today. Rather, it was subjected to this condition against its will. Our sin had profound ramifications not only to ourselves, but also to the world around us. And it is Death that is the fruit of our sin. All of creation "died" when we sinned. Although the "stamp of God" is on everything, we also see creation's death everywhere we look. Everything is decaying and wasting away. It occurs at the micro level all the way to the macro level, from the decay of atoms to the expansion of the universe.

Indeed, not everything "bad" that happens is a punishment. Some things are just the natural result of certain actions. We tore ourselves away from God, who is the source of Life, and we thus began to die, dragging all of creation with us. We now live in a world that is dying and which is hostile to life on all levels.

Well said, and thanks for the Scripture too.

 

[rogueapologist]

What are your thoughts on the role of and impact on creation itself regarding mankind's rebellion against God aka the fall? When man rebelled and his relationship with God fractured, did creation's relationship with God also fracture? Could this explain the violent nature of meteorological and geological events that we've seen down through the centuries (as opposed to the charge that some Christians wish to level: that God's exacting punishment against people through nature).

What are your thoughts and how did you arrive at your conclusion?

I don't think the universe was impacted by humanity's rebellion against God. Rather, I think humanity's relationship to the universe was fractured. This is why we look at morally neutral, natural phenomena such as earthquakes, evolution, etc. and call them "violent" and "evil". They are nothing of the sort, of course, but our judgment of them as such reveals the internal fracturing of relationship which we have with God, others, and the universe.

 

[NiceGuyAtheist]

"For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God." Romans 8:20-21 (NKJV)

Creation was not always in the condition in which we find it today. Rather, it was subjected to this condition against its will. Our sin had profound ramifications not only to ourselves, but also to the world around us. And it is Death that is the fruit of our sin. All of creation "died" when we sinned. Although the "stamp of God" is on everything, we also see creation's death everywhere we look. Everything is decaying and wasting away. It occurs at the micro level all the way to the macro level, from the decay of atoms to the expansion of the universe.

Indeed, not everything "bad" that happens is a punishment. Some things are just the natural result of certain actions.

I've asked Christians about this: Continental drift inevitably brings with it major earthquakes. Is that result of the Fall? Do Christians believe that if Adam hadn't sinned, continental drift wouldn't have happened and earthquakes wouldn't happen.

Yes, earthquakes have other causes too. But I wanted to keep question focused.

 

[NiceGuyAtheist]

And some Christians have told me that God created the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics after Adam sinned. That just seems plain crazy to me. And how could the other Laws of Therm. exist without the 2nd law being true?

 

[Cappadocious]

Could this explain the violent nature of meteorological and geological events that we've seen down through the centuries

"The glory of the LORD shall endure for ever: the LORD shall rejoice in his works. He looketh on the earth, and it trembleth: he toucheth the hills, and they smoke."

And some Christians have told me that God created the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics after Adam sinned. That just seems plain crazy to me. And how could the other Laws of Therm. exist without the 2nd law being true?

That's what happens when fundamentalist protestants attempt to place modern demands onto a pre-modern story.

 

[Hismessenger]

The reality is that it is all a part of God's grand scheme for his creation. For the creation fell with Satan before man had sinned. This had nothing to do with the physical aspect but it had to do with The end from the beginning. This is where FAITH should take hold and supposition cease. It is God's plan and His creation. His thoughts are not our thoughts ........ I know the plans I have for you says God. Do you believe His report.

hismessenger

 

[sdowney717]

God finds serious fault with this current creation and it will be done away with, changed out, for a New heavens and new earth where there will be no evil, no taint of evil, no remembrance of the former things.

Isaiah 65

17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.

Some people are now pushing the idea that this is a spiritual state only, not a physical transformation with the old burnt up and totally gone, but they are ignorantly deceived or at worse deceivers themselves.

When the new heavens and earth are created, Satan's old haunts along with the fallen angels and men being utterly removed, all of these then gone to hell which is then thrown into the lake of fire. No more evil possible, God's promise is true. Only the elect angels and elect humans living along with God in a heavenly Jerusalem.