The Evolution of High Jewish Intelligence

[ShawnWong]

This research was covered in the New York Times, The Washington Post, and The Economist. Here is The Economist article: http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=4032638

Thoughts from both a Christian and atheist perspective?

 

[Opethian]

A nice example of natural selection. Well the way it was selected for was definitely not nice, but the example and outcome is nice.

 

[TheInstant]

I'd have to read the actual paper, but I did not find the discription given in the linked article convincing. He has merely suggested that there is a link between certain genetic ailments and intelligence without offering any actual evidence for it. If he had some evidence it would be different, but as it stands this seems to be nothing more than conjecture.

 

[Opethian]

Well I know it's a fact that Jews have a higher average intelligence than other ethnic groups. When correlated with their history, this makes very good sense from the view of evolution.

 

[Dr.GH]

The so-called difference of 12 to 15 IQ points is barely one SD and given the test retest variability, it is unlikely to be significant.

What I find interesting is that john crawford who finds racism behind all science has not yet objected to the flawed and racist pseudotheory linking race and intelligence, and social class and intelligence. This is the "Social Darwinist" lie told by Galton done in nice new clothes.

 

[TheInstant]

Well I know it's a fact that Jews have a higher average intelligence than other ethnic groups. When correlated with their history, this makes very good sense from the view of evolution.

This is true, but I was under the impression that there has not been found at this point that there is a genetic link to intelligence. I admit that I am not sure of this and don't know much about it at all. The hypothesis put forward by the article is certainly interesting but I feel it's reasonable to withold judgement until the tests the article mentioned are carried out.

EDIT: I just noticed that the researcher proposes IQ tests to test his hypothesis. Given the controversial nature of IQ tests, would these results be taken seriously?

 

[Opethian]

This is true, but I was under the impression that there has not been found at this point that there is a genetic link to intelligence. I admit that I am not sure of this and don't know much about it at all. The hypothesis put forward by the article is certainly interesting but I feel it's reasonable to withold judgement until the tests the article mentioned are carried out.

Yeah I'm not sure about any of it either, it just seems plausible. We'll have to wait for some real evidence first. I am pretty positive there is a genetic link to intelligence, but this is probably a very complex relation, not as obvious as it would be liked for easy, efficient scientific research. That probably causes the problem of finding decent evidence.

 

[Opethian]

EDIT: I just noticed that the researcher proposes IQ tests to test his hypothesis. Given the controversial nature of IQ tests, would these results be taken seriously?

Well I know IQ tests aren't everything, it all depends on the tests and the circumstances you are in. I've had the same test (different questions, but same program) give me scores that were different by more than 20 points, in the same week, and I've had scores ranging from 125-180 depending on the test. I do think they're still a good way to compare certain groups' intelligence, if enough test subjects are used, and if of course the same test is used for both groups.

 

[Deamiter]

closed for review.

 

[A New Dawn]

I have cleaned up this thread and am re-opening it. Please keep to the topic or it will be closed permanently.

 

[CaligulaNero]

The author of the article is a white supremacist. It's vile antisemitism at its worst.

 

[ShawnWong]

Rabbi Max Reichler agrees that Jews have evolved a higher intelligence than anyone else, here are Rabbi Max Reichler's comments: http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.australian/msg/e21a7b64f7879e18

Also, an article in the Jewish magazine "The Jewish Press" confirms that Jews have evolved a higher intelligence than anyone else, here is the link: http://www.thejewishpress.com/news_article.asp?article=3719

Regards.

 

[Sphere]

Rabbi Max Reichler agrees that Jews have evolved a higher intelligence than anyone else, here are Rabbi Max Reichler's comments: http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.australian/msg/e21a7b64f7879e18

Also, an article in the Jewish magazine "The Jewish Press" confirms that Jews have evolved a higher intelligence than anyone else, here is the link: http://www.thejewishpress.com/news_article.asp?article=3719

Regards.

So you intentionally pick up articles from individuals who do not represent the jewish community as a whole. Will you pretend your deleted post didnt exist?

Please take your bigoted nonsense elsewhere. Thanks.

 

[TheInstant]

I don't foresee this thread going anywhere good at all. Godwin is circling above like a vulture.

*backs away*

 

[ShawnWong]

I don't foresee this thread going anywhere good at all. Godwin is circling above like a vulture.

*backs away*

Since you have such great insight, I was hoping you can lead this thread away from politics and towards an empirical/scientific analysis of the research. I look forward to your empirical reply.

God Bless

 

[TheInstant]

Since you have such great insight, I was hoping you can lead this thread away from politics and towards an empirical/scientific analysis of the research. I look forward to your empirical reply.

God Bless

Ok, well like I said in post #3, I don't think the article is very convincing. If it could be shown that the mentioned genes do in fact affect intelligence, that would be a differenct story, but the author of the paper has not done so. He has proposed IQ tests to measure this, and I don't see how that would be effective in this case since IQ tests, and intelligence in general, is greatly influenced by environmental factors. This brings us to the debate over environment vs. genetics in determining intelligence, and I again admit that this is something I don't know much about.

 

[ShawnWong]

This brings us to the debate over environment vs. genetics in determining intelligence, and I again admit that this is something I don't know much about.

Nice reply, very objective! Okey, if it is worth your time, here are two introductory articles on the science of IQ tests, they are relatively short articles and succinctly state what we know today about human intelligence:

Article 1: http://www.mugu.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/Issues/bell-curve/support-bell-curve.html

Article 2: http://www.psych.utoronto.ca/~reingold/courses/intelligence/cache/1198gottfred.html

 

[ShawnWong]

Now, if you want a lot more research on IQ and human intelligence, here are two libraries of articles:

http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/

and

http://www.ssc.uwo.ca/psychology/faculty/rushton_pubs.htm

 

[myways]

I heard a theory on the Denis Prager radio program that speculated that perhapse the difference in intelligence among European Jews and Eurpoean Gentiles is that, for centuries, Catholic families would take their brightest sons and funnel them into the celebate priesthood, thereby selecting their genes out of the population. While at the same time, Jews would do the opposite, and give extra help to establish the lives of their smartest kids. Has anyone heard of this? And what do you think about it?

Dave

 

[ShawnWong]

I heard a theory on the Denis Prager radio program that speculated that perhapse the difference in intelligence among European Jews and Eurpoean Gentiles is that, for centuries, Catholic families would take their brightest sons and funnel them into the celebate priesthood, thereby selecting their genes out of the population. While at the same time, Jews would do the opposite, and give extra help to establish the lives of their smartest kids. Has anyone heard of this? And what do you think about it?

Dave

You are absolutely correct, see http://www.theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol2no2/km-unique.html

During the 13th century, the mendicant friars were typically recruited from the aristocracy, the landed gentry, and other affluent families. Their parents often disapproved of their decision, presumably because, like most parents, they wanted grandchildren. "It was a nightmare for well-to-do families that their children might become friars."13 These families began to avoid sending their children to universities because of well-founded fears that they would be recruited into a religious life.

At the center of society was an institution with an ideology that people ought to be altruistic, that they ought to be celibate even when they were born to wealth. This explains popular acceptance of the authority of the church in matters of marriage and sex, but it still makes one wonder why these well-off people were entering monasteries and becoming celibate in the first place. Like it or not, whatever else one might say about Western Europe during this period, eugenics was not a part of the picture.