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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
The ethics and morality of Pascal's wager
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<blockquote data-quote="variant" data-source="post: 74224118" data-attributes="member: 114463"><p>They make that decision based upon real experience with a real person.</p><p></p><p>So how are these two ideas comparable?</p><p></p><p>It is "Pascalian" to make the idea of religion equivalent of real world decision making with real world consequences and a real world cost/benefit analysis. Religions strive to make themselves as familiar as possible, using ample metaphors for family, farming, productivity, and in this case a cost/benefit analysis. Comparisons though don't magically make religious metaphysical positions into those real world things. It's a cheap bait and switch.</p><p></p><p>What it is actually doing is trading real world resources for unbounded promises.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's also easier to promise things you don't have to deliver in an attempt at psychological manipulation of others.</p><p></p><p>We make our decisions about people based upon experience with those people. How they act. What they're really like. How well we think we know them.</p><p></p><p>And yes people manipulate us all the time. It's part of being human. Religion though takes this to another level.</p><p></p><p>We are manipulated to make metaphysical decisions in religion without much actual experience with how feasible those claims should be, the promise, solutions to our most basic existential fears.</p><p></p><p>The price. Likely real world psychological manipulation and control.</p><p></p><p>Christianity isn't the only religion that does this either, it's VERY common and insidiously well done. In my opinion some of the most skillful human manipulators of all time have worked on refining such ideas. So, at least some religions are simply manipulating followers with faulty promises.</p><p></p><p>Consider for a moment an idea that you aren't religiously attached to and see if you can see it.</p><p></p><p>The LDS church for instance has implemented some fun "pascalian" psychological manipulation upon their followers.</p><p></p><p>From the blog I found online due to our conversation by typing in the google search string "religion is manipulative"</p><p></p><p>Consider the following:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><a href="http://mybigquestions.info/My_Big_Questions/Religious_Manipulation.html" target="_blank">Religion is manipulative</a></p><p></p><p>That to me (as an outsider with no attachments to such beliefs) sounds awful, and actually quite artful/skillful manipulation.</p><p></p><p>I consider spreading such ideas, well, wrong, the idea behind this thread. It is unethical in my opinion to spread such ideas, and certainly wrong to subject children to gross psychological manipulation in this way.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="variant, post: 74224118, member: 114463"] They make that decision based upon real experience with a real person. So how are these two ideas comparable? It is "Pascalian" to make the idea of religion equivalent of real world decision making with real world consequences and a real world cost/benefit analysis. Religions strive to make themselves as familiar as possible, using ample metaphors for family, farming, productivity, and in this case a cost/benefit analysis. Comparisons though don't magically make religious metaphysical positions into those real world things. It's a cheap bait and switch. What it is actually doing is trading real world resources for unbounded promises. It's also easier to promise things you don't have to deliver in an attempt at psychological manipulation of others. We make our decisions about people based upon experience with those people. How they act. What they're really like. How well we think we know them. And yes people manipulate us all the time. It's part of being human. Religion though takes this to another level. We are manipulated to make metaphysical decisions in religion without much actual experience with how feasible those claims should be, the promise, solutions to our most basic existential fears. The price. Likely real world psychological manipulation and control. Christianity isn't the only religion that does this either, it's VERY common and insidiously well done. In my opinion some of the most skillful human manipulators of all time have worked on refining such ideas. So, at least some religions are simply manipulating followers with faulty promises. Consider for a moment an idea that you aren't religiously attached to and see if you can see it. The LDS church for instance has implemented some fun "pascalian" psychological manipulation upon their followers. From the blog I found online due to our conversation by typing in the google search string "religion is manipulative" Consider the following: [URL='http://mybigquestions.info/My_Big_Questions/Religious_Manipulation.html']Religion is manipulative[/URL] That to me (as an outsider with no attachments to such beliefs) sounds awful, and actually quite artful/skillful manipulation. I consider spreading such ideas, well, wrong, the idea behind this thread. It is unethical in my opinion to spread such ideas, and certainly wrong to subject children to gross psychological manipulation in this way. [/QUOTE]
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