The End of the World is Nigh

Gracchus said:

One of the other things "Christians" disagree about is what "certain events" must happen. They can't even agree on what's real, much less on their wish fulfilling fantasies, their doctrines, their dogmas, or their favorite tipples.

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AV1611VET said:

Keeps us from being accused of 'not thinking outside the box,' doesn't it?

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I would never accuse Christians of thinking!

DaneaFL said:

I think God obviously knows... just not Jesus... since Jesus isn't God. Well, he's kinda God... he's part of the trinity... He's the same essence as God but not the same substance as God... he's the.... oh I don't know... it's all very confusing.

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HERETIC!
All such questions were decide at the Council of Nicea, under the supervision of the Emperor Constantine himself. Homousion is good doctrine, and you had better believe it if you know what's good for you. Homoiusion is heresy.

(And yes, Christians have killed, tortured, damned each other over that errant jot!)

AndrewRyan said:

So your telling me that jesus, who is also god( the all knowing creator, doesn't know when the world will end? that doesn't make sense.

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DaneaFL said:

I think God obviously knows... just not Jesus... since Jesus isn't God. Well, he's kinda God... he's part of the trinity... He's the same essence as God but not the same substance as God... he's the.... oh I don't know... it's all very confusing.

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This may well be an honest take - but it IS comprehensible! The confusion comes when one tries to add substance to the realm of the Spirit. It just doesn't work.

For all of Jesus' Divinity, He is still fully human. Being confronted by this apparent paradox is a BIG part of coming to terms with what the Good News really is; we are called to enter into His essence, and we don't have to wait to do so! Meanwhile our substance, with all the accompanying problems, very much remains ...

Further, NO part of the Gospel includes going it alone.

DaneaFL said:

Whoa whoa wait! I think you just committed the unpardonable sin of not taking the Bible literally word-for-word!

You are twisting the words of Our Holiness, King James into saying that "the Son of Man coming in his kingdom" doesn't mean Christ's return to earth but instead means something about the "dispensation of law"???

Either you are wrong or you don't believe that the King James Bible is the literal, inerrant word of God.

Which is it gonna be?

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Is this a serious question, wanting an actual answer? If so, it refers to Jesus' own words, no one else's. (I also tend to think it is perfectly on-topic here)

serge546 said:

Those criteria define every single era of human existence. So, basically, Christians will never know when their interpretation of the end-of-days will be.

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Here's something worth developing! If you take the full context of Biblical eschatology, it is actually quite a bit more specific than the above quote indicates. It's also more than a little confusing, with the biggest consensus being that Revelation refers to Saints having patience to endure, rather than clipping newspaper headlines.

CabVet said:

How about you provide evidence for all the miracles described in the Bible, you know, stuff that really matters, not silly historical stuff.

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I'm glad you find something in the text relevant, or at least potentially relevant. How are miracles in the Bible, not "silly historical stuff?"

The fact is, more miracles occur in our time, than ever did in any Biblical time. (This would seem to me, to address the stated concern)

DaneaFL said:

Read these verses very carefully together:

"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened...
But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

Doesn't this clearly say "I will definitely come back to earth in the next 60 years or so, but only God knows exactly when."

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No, it does not. This is along the same lines that Jews object to the Gospel, so please don't feel you are alone in having difficulty here. The first step is humility, recognizing it was written in a culture, time, and place far removed from our own, in a different language. "Taking it literally" = hearing what the original audience would have heard.

So the question becomes, "what did they hear?"

chaela said:

Also -- for those who say Jesus is God -- how can an omnipresent deity "return" when He's already here?

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A very observant question! So we are to notice that the text itself, presents us with the simultaneous (limited) humanity of Jesus, as well as with the (unlimited) Divine essence. All in the same Body.

And the idea is that we are to be included in this condition!

Reading it in a direct, literal way, it seems very clear that "this" generation means the one to which he was speaking.

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And yet, the Bible consistently uses the word "generation" to refer to something quite distinct from anything mentioned in this thread (Except for one allusion made by AV)

Some insight into this peculiarity:

Psalm 22:30 "A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation."

Psalm 24:6 This [is] the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob."

"[There is] a generation [that] curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother. (Proverbs 30:12) [There is] a generation [that are] pure in their own eyes, and [yet] is not washed from their filthiness. [There is] a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
[There is] a generation, whose teeth [are as] swords, and their jaw teeth [as] knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from [among] men."

Notice that such usage of the word cannot possibly refer to a generation in the way we see it being thought of here, in this thread. (And while I'm here I'll point out that many things that are confusing in Scripture at first, can be made sense out of via a comparative reading of Proverbs, which truly gives us many keys to understanding)

DaneaFL said:

What does He mean by "there went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah."

Obviously since that's not possible

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While this is thoroughly off-topic, what makes you say this isn't possible?

Wiccan_Child said:

I think I see what he's saying: 'this generation' could mean "this generation we have now", or "this generation that I was just talking about".

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Perhaps 2 of my posts ago, you will see something completely different. (You might find it helpful, insightful, or at least interesting)

DaneaFL said:

If that's what Jesus meant then it doesn't even make sense why he would say it.

Of course the generation at that time won't pass away during the time when that stuff during their generation happens.

What does that even mean? he's saying that the people living at that time won't all die until those things happen? Well of course....

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This requires a closer look, if one truly wants to understand. Not only is this the way much of the Bible is written, it is the very reason G-d chose Moses to reveal Himself to ... (Moses was willing to take the time for a closer look)

razeontherock said:

(Moses was willing to take the time for a closer look)

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Did Moses have something better to do? When your out wandering the desert there is not a lot out there to do.

chaela said:

However, there has been famine, pestilence, earthquakes, death, etc. since day one, so I'm not sure those things are necessarily the best gauge as to how close to the "end" we are.

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And there are also wars and rumors of wars.

I've become convinced the verses so often cited are in fact a list of the normal newsworthy thigns that always are happening. But many are too foolish to even consider such a possibility. That includes many on either side generally speaking.

Jamin4422 said:

Did Moses have something better to do? When your out wandering the desert there is not a lot out there to do.

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This can readily be turned into a deep understanding of the world in which we find ourselves living in ...