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"The Dynamic Laws of Prosperity"

WileyCoyote

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Hello, my fellow WOFers. :wave:

I have something important I wish to discuss with you. It's been something that has been on my mind for awhile now and I need your thoughts on it.

I was at a bookstore awhile back looking through some Christian titles. A couple of books caught my eye. One was a book on prosperity written by a guy I've never heard of. As I skimmed through it, I found out this guy takes a moderate view regarding prosperity and I believed his writings to be biblical based.

And the other one was a book entitled "The Dynamic Laws of Prosperity" written by a woman named Catherine Ponder.

As I skimmed through that one, I discovered it to be the most extreme book on prosperity I've ever seen. Some of the phrases in the book jumped out at me such as "giving will put you in touch with God's rich supply" and "never think of yourself as poor and needy". She goes on to say that you should live like you already received God's rich supply by wearing your best clothes to the dinner table and getting out the best china, even if what you are eating is pork and beans. The reason these phrases jumped out at me is not because they are so extreme, but because they are actual biblical principles and I recognize things like this from WOF literature I've read. Some of the more extreme things she says is to create a "vacuum" if you want to receive more things from God. She explains that there is a "vacuum law of prosperity" that works like this: getting rid of what you don't want to make room for what you do want. I agreed with many of the things she said but I was very skeptical.

After further research, I discovered that the author is a minister in the Unity church and the book falls under the category of "New Thought". I found this out by using google on my phone (gotta love cell phones :p). When I found this out, I purchased the book almost immediately.

I bought the book for research purposes because many people say that WOF is rooted in cults such as New Thought. I wanted to point out differences in what this author was saying and what WOF believes regarding prosperity. But as I continued to read, I discovered that many of the things she says and many of the things some of the more popular "prosperity gospel" proponents say is almost identical. And this disturbed me. For awhile there, I started wondering if I really was involved in a movement that had metaphysical influences. Aside from a few questionable statements (such as poverty being a sin) if you were to take her name off the cover and replace it with another name, say Creflo Dollar, chances are you might not be able to tell the difference. So far, I've read many WOF principles in the book such as positive confession, correct thinking, giving and receiving, acting like you've already received what you ask God for, etc etc. I am aware that these things are also rooted in the Bible. And that is what confused me.

While I did question WOF after I read some of this book, I now think the whole thing is a huge devilish deception. Could it be possible that cults such as New Thought have discovered biblical principles and tapped into them to give them such things as prosperity and healing? Personally, I think so. I believe they use biblical principles and they work because God is no respecter of persons. And just because WOF teaches similar principles doesn't mean that WOF is influenced by New Thought. If WOF was influenced by New Thought, we would have a similar understanding of things like the Trinity, which we obviously do not. Isn't it a logical fallacy to suggest that just because a cult teaches a doctrine similar to a group you don't like, the group MUST be influenced by that cult? I can now see where the deception comes from and why so many people are deceived into believing we are part of a cult. It just makes me very upset.



What are your thoughts on this?
 
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KingZzub

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Hey Wiley,

I mentioned this a few weeks ago while preaching mainly because last year a work colleague had persuaded me to listen to the 4 DVD set "The Secret". The Secret contains a host of self-help thoughts and a lot of it resembles living by faith.

After spending a couple of days praying and fasting for an answer to questions virtually indentical to the ones that you have mentioned above, the Lord showed me this truth:

There is a difference between the person of the Lord and the principles of the Lord.

The Lord is a person we can form a relationship with and that changes our heart and mind. The Lord has designed the universe with principles that we can operate, and operating them changes our world and our circumstances.

We access the person of the Lord through prayer. We access the principles of the Lord through knowledge.

Accessing the person of the Lord brings the presence of the Lord.
Accessing the principles of the Lord brings the power and prosperity of the Lord.

Now you know as well as I do that there are old timer Pentecostal saints (normally women) who have been with the person of the Lord for decades - since the 1920s. They are still alive and have the countenance of an angel. They know the person of the Lord and carry the presence of the Lord. But sadly, many of these wonderful saints are sick and dirt broke because no-one ever told them the principles.

Now - and even more tragically - there seem to be a generation of people inside and outside the church who have discovered the principles of the Lord without ever knowing the person. Because the principles are hard wired into the universe (the Lord makes His sun shine on the wicked and the righteous) anyone can discover them and utilise them. The author of the Secret seems to have discovered some by trial, some by reading ancient literature and some from the Bible.

I wouldn't read these ones myself, not because they are necessarily wrong but because I have the Master manual in my house. Why waste money on cheeseburgers when I have steak at home, or something like that.

Regards,
Ben
 
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Shepherd1

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Hey Wiley,

I mentioned this a few weeks ago while preaching mainly because last year a work colleague had persuaded me to listen to the 4 DVD set "The Secret". The Secret contains a host of self-help thoughts and a lot of it resembles living by faith.

After spending a couple of days praying and fasting for an answer to questions virtually indentical to the ones that you have mentioned above, the Lord showed me this truth:

There is a difference between the person of the Lord and the principles of the Lord.

The Lord is a person we can form a relationship with and that changes our heart and mind. The Lord has designed the universe with principles that we can operate, and operating them changes our world and our circumstances.

We access the person of the Lord through prayer. We access the principles of the Lord through knowledge.

Accessing the person of the Lord brings the presence of the Lord.
Accessing the principles of the Lord brings the power and prosperity of the Lord.

Now you know as well as I do that there are old timer Pentecostal saints (normally women) who have been with the person of the Lord for decades - since the 1920s. They are still alive and have the countenance of an angel. They know the person of the Lord and carry the presence of the Lord. But sadly, many of these wonderful saints are sick and dirt broke because no-one ever told them the principles.

Now - and even more tragically - there seem to be a generation of people inside and outside the church who have discovered the principles of the Lord without ever knowing the person. Because the principles are hard wired into the universe (the Lord makes His sun shine on the wicked and the righteous) anyone can discover them and utilise them. The author of the Secret seems to have discovered some by trial, some by reading ancient literature and some from the Bible.

I wouldn't read these ones myself, not because they are necessarily wrong but because I have the Master manual in my house. Why waste money on cheeseburgers when I have steak at home, or something like that.

Regards,
Ben

Yes, very well said. I'm going to print out your response so I can use it. I have a friend who has been into all that New Age stuff, and Jesus is doing some mighty works in her, and she is starting to come around. Praise God. It reminds me of 'The Temptation of Jesus', and the Devil sets Him on the highest point of the Temple, and said 'If you are God's Son, throw yourself down', etc, and the Devil quotes some Scripture to Him to tempt Him. (Matthew 4) Satan knows the Scriptures. He uses it to infiltrate himself into the system of books and knowledge, and unfortunately the New Age movement is very wide-spread.

As I was reading, my very first thought was, 'Where is Jesus in all of this?' He warns us in the Bible, that the only way to the Father is through the Son. Yes, we can use 'universal principles' that are available to all, and that may help to appropriate a life on this planet with all the so-called good things, but without Jesus, there is no Salvation. Seek first the Kingdom of God and all these things shall be given to you as well.

God bless you and don't lose faith that God wants you to have a life full of pleasures and blessings, and just because there is alot of reaction to the idea that God wants to bless you, doesn't mean that it is untrue. Like KingZ says, you have your Bible - and there are many promises in there that talk of the many wonderful blessings and prosperity that are rightfully yours as a precious child of God. :) Keep on keepin' on...
 
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WileyCoyote

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Thanks. I especially like what Ben said about the person of the Lord and the principles of the Lord. It is true. I guess New Thought has discovered these principles and operate them but at the same time, they don't know the Person Jesus. Jesus died to give every person salvation, healing, prosperity, etc etc but some people take the prosperity without the salvation. Some take the salvation without the prosperity. Ben, what you said really encouraged me.

And Shepherd, thank you for your kind words as well. You both really blessed me. :)
 
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Pastor Russ

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Ekhardt Tolle used to attend a WOF church I was a member of before God sent me out to start a church. I talked with him one day (this was back in the 90's by the way) and he did not like the Jesus thing only the principles like "The Power of Now"- my pastor had done a message on faith is now. I would rather have the author of the principles, and be led by The Holy Spirit....
 
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PastorMike

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Hey Wiley,

I mentioned this a few weeks ago while preaching mainly because last year a work colleague had persuaded me to listen to the 4 DVD set "The Secret". The Secret contains a host of self-help thoughts and a lot of it resembles living by faith.

After spending a couple of days praying and fasting for an answer to questions virtually indentical to the ones that you have mentioned above, the Lord showed me this truth:

There is a difference between the person of the Lord and the principles of the Lord.

The Lord is a person we can form a relationship with and that changes our heart and mind. The Lord has designed the universe with principles that we can operate, and operating them changes our world and our circumstances.

We access the person of the Lord through prayer. We access the principles of the Lord through knowledge.

Accessing the person of the Lord brings the presence of the Lord.
Accessing the principles of the Lord brings the power and prosperity of the Lord.

Now you know as well as I do that there are old timer Pentecostal saints (normally women) who have been with the person of the Lord for decades - since the 1920s. They are still alive and have the countenance of an angel. They know the person of the Lord and carry the presence of the Lord. But sadly, many of these wonderful saints are sick and dirt broke because no-one ever told them the principles.

Now - and even more tragically - there seem to be a generation of people inside and outside the church who have discovered the principles of the Lord without ever knowing the person. Because the principles are hard wired into the universe (the Lord makes His sun shine on the wicked and the righteous) anyone can discover them and utilise them. The author of the Secret seems to have discovered some by trial, some by reading ancient literature and some from the Bible.

I wouldn't read these ones myself, not because they are necessarily wrong but because I have the Master manual in my house. Why waste money on cheeseburgers when I have steak at home, or something like that.

Regards,
Ben

Well said Ben...
 
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KingZzub

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I recommend the book, 'A Different Gospel' by D.R. McConnell.

Once written as a graduate thesis paper at Oral Roberts University, its a well documented account of the origins and evolution of many of the WoF teachings.

I recommend not ever reading the ill-researched and biased book "A Different Gospel". McConnell has been shown to have essentially made up his ideas on Kenyon's history and what Kenyon believed.

Firstly, FaultySurplus, I would appreciate it if you do not recommend books that have been shown to have been based on faulty ideas.

Secondly, you may not know how this forum works. This is the Word of Faith forum where people have faith in the Word. Just as I cannot go on the Baptist forum and post a book recommendation on why I am not a Baptist, you cannot come into the Word of Faith forum and post a book recommendation on why you do not have faith in the Word.

Thanks,
Ben
 
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KingZzub

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Ekhardt Tolle used to attend a WOF church I was a member of before God sent me out to start a church. I talked with him one day (this was back in the 90's by the way) and he did not like the Jesus thing only the principles like "The Power of Now"- my pastor had done a message on faith is now. I would rather have the author of the principles, and be led by The Holy Spirit....

That is really interesting. I have always said that they sound like us because they are ripping the Bible off, not because we are ripping them off. Only someone with abject ignorance of the Bible would say that the power of faith and being successful is a New Age idea!

Now we see that at least one of them directly ripped us off!

Take the godly principle and rip out the person that offends the world and came to bring a sword and make some cheap money. Not how I intend to succeed... nor any other Word of Faith Christian I know.

Thanks for posting Russ...
 
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Shepherd1

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Ekhardt Tolle used to attend a WOF church I was a member of before God sent me out to start a church. I talked with him one day (this was back in the 90's by the way) and he did not like the Jesus thing only the principles like "The Power of Now"- my pastor had done a message on faith is now. I would rather have the author of the principles, and be led by The Holy Spirit....

Amen. We are designed by our creator to live in close contact and connection with Him and that is why we are commanded in the Bible to abide in Him and seek His face - only Jesus can fill that gaping big hole that we have in our lives before we really start getting to know Him and having an intimate relationship with Him. I can vouch for this - until I was saved and born again, I was desperately lonely and desolate, despite having a marriage, family and friends around me etc. Nothing fills that aching emptiness until we meet and come to know and love, and feel the love of Jesus! He not only is our Saviour, He is our everything! I will never be lonely again...:bow::bow:
 
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Jedi.Kep

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Hello, my fellow WOFers. :wave:

I have something important I wish to discuss with you. It's been something that has been on my mind for awhile now and I need your thoughts on it.

I was at a bookstore awhile back looking through some Christian titles. A couple of books caught my eye. One was a book on prosperity written by a guy I've never heard of. As I skimmed through it, I found out this guy takes a moderate view regarding prosperity and I believed his writings to be biblical based.

And the other one was a book entitled "The Dynamic Laws of Prosperity" written by a woman named Catherine Ponder.

As I skimmed through that one, I discovered it to be the most extreme book on prosperity I've ever seen. Some of the phrases in the book jumped out at me such as "giving will put you in touch with God's rich supply" and "never think of yourself as poor and needy". She goes on to say that you should live like you already received God's rich supply by wearing your best clothes to the dinner table and getting out the best china, even if what you are eating is pork and beans. The reason these phrases jumped out at me is not because they are so extreme, but because they are actual biblical principles and I recognize things like this from WOF literature I've read. Some of the more extreme things she says is to create a "vacuum" if you want to receive more things from God. She explains that there is a "vacuum law of prosperity" that works like this: getting rid of what you don't want to make room for what you do want. I agreed with many of the things she said but I was very skeptical.

After further research, I discovered that the author is a minister in the Unity church and the book falls under the category of "New Thought". I found this out by using google on my phone (gotta love cell phones :p). When I found this out, I purchased the book almost immediately.

I bought the book for research purposes because many people say that WOF is rooted in cults such as New Thought. I wanted to point out differences in what this author was saying and what WOF believes regarding prosperity. But as I continued to read, I discovered that many of the things she says and many of the things some of the more popular "prosperity gospel" proponents say is almost identical. And this disturbed me. For awhile there, I started wondering if I really was involved in a movement that had metaphysical influences. Aside from a few questionable statements (such as poverty being a sin) if you were to take her name off the cover and replace it with another name, say Creflo Dollar, chances are you might not be able to tell the difference. So far, I've read many WOF principles in the book such as positive confession, correct thinking, giving and receiving, acting like you've already received what you ask God for, etc etc. I am aware that these things are also rooted in the Bible. And that is what confused me.

While I did question WOF after I read some of this book, I now think the whole thing is a huge devilish deception. Could it be possible that cults such as New Thought have discovered biblical principles and tapped into them to give them such things as prosperity and healing? Personally, I think so. I believe they use biblical principles and they work because God is no respecter of persons. And just because WOF teaches similar principles doesn't mean that WOF is influenced by New Thought. If WOF was influenced by New Thought, we would have a similar understanding of things like the Trinity, which we obviously do not. Isn't it a logical fallacy to suggest that just because a cult teaches a doctrine similar to a group you don't like, the group MUST be influenced by that cult? I can now see where the deception comes from and why so many people are deceived into believing we are part of a cult. It just makes me very upset.



What are your thoughts on this?

What you mentioned in your last paragraph is absolutely correct. Satan is trying to discredit the genuine by making very good counterfits. Counterfit 20 dollar bills are very, very similiar to real 20 dollar bills. The best way to know the difference is to study the real 20 dollar bill. That way, the counterfits are easy to spot.

Yes, it is a logical fallacy to lump all things that look alike into the same pot. Many people do this trying to discredit the truth of the Gospel and it is a shame, but the facts are that these are the last days and many will not be able to tell the difference between what is real and what is fake because they haven't studied the real enough to recognize the fake.

Keep the main thing the main thing. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is about saving souls from hell. Yes, there are benefits that go along with that, prosperity being one of them, but the main and most important thing is getting the lost to get saved. Keep that as the main focus my friend and you'll never go wrong.
 
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1Prophetess

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I love what you all have said here. It is so fun to see it.

Of course, I do believe in the prosperity of the Word. I actually was living in a rented house nine years ago, with no money in the bank, and no hope to have money, and now I have most of the material possessions I want in my life. God is the author of prosperity! I totally know that the Jabez Prayer works, and I also know that God is faithful to us.

However, I wanted to chime in here and give you a perspective that you might not think about. So here goes.

I am going to say some things that you know are true. Jesus is wonderful and good. He died on the cross for us. And when He died, we were able to be saved. We were able to be washed in the blood, and, because we have accepted Him as our savior, we have everlasting life as the gospel of John tells us. Jesus has treated us like family, and now we are His bride. I love the Lord so much.

Are you following me?

Okay, so all of what I've said above it true. It is all true with God who has everything handled for us.

.....


...

..

But wait! Is it all true?

Well, actually there is no scripture that says that we are "washed in the blood." That's a song. It isn't in the Bible and definitely not in John (that I know of).

And that is how the devil destroys you. He gives you all truth except for one little piece. And that piece he deceives you with. Once you believe the lie, you are headed his direction. Then he can begin to help you see the lie over and over.

I often think (about the lie) when I think of Eve. What did the devil say to her?

Well, first, let's look at what God said to them.

Genesis 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

So next chapter, in Genesis 3:4, the devil said:

"You will not surely die" ...

He used God's words, twisted them, and then convinced Eve to do the wrong thing. That's the way he does things. Just a twist, and you're off on the wrong road.

So I do agree that it is always best to stay away from those who use the Word's truth to lead others to it. They often add things that are not part of the Word, and then you are led astray.

And you will be like the one in Proverbs 5:23

[You] will die for lack of discipline, led astray by [your] own great folly.

God Bless You All.

Pastor Russ, my brother in law is also Pastor Russ. I had to look you up to see if you were him or not. And then I saw that you were in Vacaville??? Where is your church?
 
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1Prophetess

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anyman: I personally feel that the nudity in your youtube site pretty much ruins it for me. If something is good, it doesn't need to have nudity to cause anyone to watch it. Good is good on it's own merit--like God.

Besides, I do believe that voyeurism is a sin, and I don't want to sin.
 
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anyman

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anyman: I personally feel that the nudity in your youtube site pretty much ruins it for me. If something is good, it doesn't need to have nudity to cause anyone to watch it. Good is good on it's own merit--like God.

Besides, I do believe that voyeurism is a sin, and I don't want to sin.


Didn't see any nudity. & if I were voyeristic it wouldn't be towards Joplin...........Ewwwwwwww......... I was just trying to post the song. I'll check it out & if I see any nudity I'll edit.
 
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jazzypooh

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Hello, my fellow WOFers. :wave:

I have something important I wish to discuss with you. It's been something that has been on my mind for awhile now and I need your thoughts on it.

I was at a bookstore awhile back looking through some Christian titles. A couple of books caught my eye. One was a book on prosperity written by a guy I've never heard of. As I skimmed through it, I found out this guy takes a moderate view regarding prosperity and I believed his writings to be biblical based.

And the other one was a book entitled "The Dynamic Laws of Prosperity" written by a woman named Catherine Ponder.

As I skimmed through that one, I discovered it to be the most extreme book on prosperity I've ever seen. Some of the phrases in the book jumped out at me such as "giving will put you in touch with God's rich supply" and "never think of yourself as poor and needy". She goes on to say that you should live like you already received God's rich supply by wearing your best clothes to the dinner table and getting out the best china, even if what you are eating is pork and beans. The reason these phrases jumped out at me is not because they are so extreme, but because they are actual biblical principles and I recognize things like this from WOF literature I've read. Some of the more extreme things she says is to create a "vacuum" if you want to receive more things from God. She explains that there is a "vacuum law of prosperity" that works like this: getting rid of what you don't want to make room for what you do want. I agreed with many of the things she said but I was very skeptical.

After further research, I discovered that the author is a minister in the Unity church and the book falls under the category of "New Thought". I found this out by using google on my phone (gotta love cell phones :p). When I found this out, I purchased the book almost immediately.

I bought the book for research purposes because many people say that WOF is rooted in cults such as New Thought. I wanted to point out differences in what this author was saying and what WOF believes regarding prosperity. But as I continued to read, I discovered that many of the things she says and many of the things some of the more popular "prosperity gospel" proponents say is almost identical. And this disturbed me. For awhile there, I started wondering if I really was involved in a movement that had metaphysical influences. Aside from a few questionable statements (such as poverty being a sin) if you were to take her name off the cover and replace it with another name, say Creflo Dollar, chances are you might not be able to tell the difference. So far, I've read many WOF principles in the book such as positive confession, correct thinking, giving and receiving, acting like you've already received what you ask God for, etc etc. I am aware that these things are also rooted in the Bible. And that is what confused me.

While I did question WOF after I read some of this book, I now think the whole thing is a huge devilish deception. Could it be possible that cults such as New Thought have discovered biblical principles and tapped into them to give them such things as prosperity and healing? Personally, I think so. I believe they use biblical principles and they work because God is no respecter of persons. And just because WOF teaches similar principles doesn't mean that WOF is influenced by New Thought. If WOF was influenced by New Thought, we would have a similar understanding of things like the Trinity, which we obviously do not. Isn't it a logical fallacy to suggest that just because a cult teaches a doctrine similar to a group you don't like, the group MUST be influenced by that cult? I can now see where the deception comes from and why so many people are deceived into believing we are part of a cult. It just makes me very upset.



What are your thoughts on this?

people like to label the entire group because of the extreme beliefs of a few. as long as we base our beliefs on what God's Word says and not on a movement or a preacher, i believe we'll be okay :thumbsup: the Bible says it is the Word of faith that we preach, so that is what i believe. people in the world have always tried to achieve the things of God apart from God. its just that the New Age movement is way out there with it. but as long as we have relationship with God and are searching the Scriptures to make sure what we are learning is true, the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth and will raise a red flag whenever we run into deception as He did with you in your case

Love,
~jazzy
 
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anyman

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anyman: I personally feel that the nudity in your youtube site pretty much ruins it for me. If something is good, it doesn't need to have nudity to cause anyone to watch it. Good is good on it's own merit--like God.

Besides, I do believe that voyeurism is a sin, and I don't want to sin.

I didn't see any nudity. I'll go back & check & edit if I missed something.
I wasn't trying to be voyerictic & if I were going to be, it wouldn't be towards Joplin........Ewwww........ I was just posting the song as a reply.
 
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anyman

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anyman: I personally feel that the nudity in your youtube site pretty much ruins it for me. If something is good, it doesn't need to have nudity to cause anyone to watch it. Good is good on it's own merit--like God.

Besides, I do believe that voyeurism is a sin, and I don't want to sin.


Didn't see it origionaly. I fixed it. Sorry I made you stumble by thinking of Janis like that........however disturbing that might be..............I didn't see all the frames origionally. Hope your not to tramatized..
 
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1Prophetess

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I was traumatized! :cool: I don't exactly like to see naked women with beads all over their chest. She was weird for sure.

Personally, I don't find much at all attractive about a female's body. So it wasn't sexual for me. But I did think that this might be a sight where kids might see.....

***protecting those little minds***

I actually like Janis Joplin's singing, and most of her songs are really protest songs related to society's rich. I think that's pretty fun myself.
 
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KingZzub

Blessed to Be A Blessing
Dec 23, 2005
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Tilton is not a reflection of what Word of Faith Christianity should be like anymore.

I believe that ever since his (first!) divorce and the subsequent failure of his church he has not been right in his teaching or ethos.
 
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