The Double Message of Eternal Security.

Jason0047 said:

Speaking of His rest:

11 ...They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;"
(Hebrews 3:11-14).


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Dan61861 said:

I agree, The Holy Spirit never glorifies Himself. He glorifies Christ. He testifies that Christ has come. He convicts the world of sin. This is exactly what the Holy Spirit was doing when Christ was accused of miracles by the devil. I have watched many charismatic programs...Christ isn't found.

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1stcenturylady said:

What kind of tongues do you speak?

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stuart lawrence said:

Without wishing to offend others. Many in these churches do have a very phariseeical attitude. For they earnestly believe in righteousness according to observing the law. I had a relative. They went to one of these churches. They insisted you must live to a very high moral standard. They looked down on single parents, and those who smoked or drank. my relative lacked love, mercy and compassion for others.
For many years we did not meet. Then one day I went to visit them. I was stunned by the person standing before me. Love shone from them, they had totally changed. The reason?
My relative said they now knew they did not have to be good enough for God. They were saved because Jesus died for them.
In my experience, the more in earnest you are that heaven is attained based in a very high standard of moral living, the less you reflect what Christ termed the higher points off the law in your life. Love is the first casualty of such an aporoach

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stuart lawrence said:

It doesn't help you know trying to tell others they need to speak in tongues. Much better to encourage them. I don't see encouragement as proclaiming it is easy never to commit sin, and to suggest you yourself do not sin.
Contemplate the effect that would have in others who do not claim to be sinless. Try and contemplate hard on it. Try and put yourself in their shoes. Think of their feelings.

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Dan61861 said:

yet, they measure their perfection by the Law.

The only way a person cannot sin is by being in Christ and not under the Law. That is when God no longer imputes sin on us. It isn't that we don't sin, it is God not charging us with sin.

In Christ
Daniel

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stuart lawrence said:

A minister once wrote that when you try and obey the law to attain heaven you either become crushed or hard nosed. He is correct. The only way you can convince yourself you never sin is to dumb down the law of God from the pristene level it is set at.

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Dan61861 said:

Tell me, you have been in this conversation for a LONG time. What am I preaching?

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Dan61861 said:

I agree, The Holy Spirit never glorifies Himself. He glorifies Christ. He testifies that Christ has come. He convicts the world of sin. This is exactly what the Holy Spirit was doing when Christ was accused of miracles by the devil. I have watched many charismatic programs...Christ isn't found.

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Dan61861 said:

Yes, it is foolishness to them...to them I am speaking a foreign language. They do not understand a word I say.

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stuart lawrence said:

It doesn't help you know trying to tell others they need to speak in tongues. Much better to encourage them. I don't see encouragement as proclaiming it is easy never to commit sin, and to suggest you yourself do not sin.
Contemplate the effect that would have in others who do not claim to be sinless. Try and contemplate hard on it. Try and put yourself in their shoes. Think of their feelings.

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1stcenturylady said:

Yes, I can relate to that. That even happens to me among Christians! And even get ganged up upon, and get unkind accusations thrown at me, like I'm stupid, and their unbalanced liberal grace is right. But the unkindness shows they have no love. So who has the Spirit?

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Dan61861 said:

I truly hope you don't think I have been unkind...several times I have agreed with your post. I am blunt though, I won't back down from dangerous doctrine. If I did, that would be truly unloving.

I truly do try to explain myself as best I can. I'm a steelworker though...not a college professor.

In Christ
Daniel

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1stcenturylady said:

Its that you believe I am preaching "dangerous doctrine." You even asked me if I believe I am sinless, when I deliberately stated, willful sin. You and stuart believe the scriptures I teach on are impossible, thus foolishness.

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1stcenturylady said:

I wasn't suggesting he needs to speak in tongues, just asking as I didn't know. Just trying to figure his background. You, he, and even Jason argue with me so much I was troubled. You sometimes can be friendly, then always end up accusing me of not understanding grace, as if only you know. Its like the scorpion riding across the river on a frogs back. In the middle he stings the frog, because it is his nature. What scriptures I preach are foolishness to you all.

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stuart lawrence said:

Your insistence it is easy not to commit sin, is at best naive, at worst.......
I am afraid it is the mantra I grew up with. At church on a Sunday many folk gave the impression they lived virtually sinless lives but they could not keep it up 24/7.
BTW
Biblical perfection is not sinless perfection.
As the insults are flying and you are likening me to being a scorpion/ that us my nature whilst you are the innocent one being persecuted, it may be better if we cease discussion.
Please note, I have not inferred you may be a scorpion. I wouldn't use such language

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