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The Doctrines Of Grace

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TimRout

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Can the doctrines of grace be demonstrated unequivocally from the Scriptures alone?

Now then...not to be piggish about it, but I would dearly love a calm, scholarly, intelligent discussion of the Scriptures to result here. If we start going off the rails, you won't need to wait for the mods to shut us down; I'll request a thread closure myself. Many thanks, and may the discussion be God honoring.
 
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mlqurgw

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Can the doctrines of grace be demonstrated unequivocally from the Scriptures alone?
Would it be agreeable to you if some of us take turns with each of them and show the Biblical foundations for them. What I mean is maybe I could take total depravity and you take unconditional election and Dean take particular redemption and another take effectual calling and another take perseverance of the saints. Or any order you wish by whom you think would be able to do it. If you would be agreeable to this perhaps you could asigne the different points to each and than leave it up for discussion.
 
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TimRout

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That sounds agreeable.

And let us include a discussion of compatiblism, divine decrees, the nature of God's foreknowledge, etc. Take it to town, lads!
 
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DeaconDean

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I do it reluctantly because I have some underlying reasons that my answers may not be received. "P" for Preseverance is my speciality, but "P" for Particular may do also.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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sealacamp

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God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.

That seems pretty clear to me as well as other scriptures that mention grace abounding despite our sin. It would appear that grace imparts the gift of life and Christ lived a life that exemplified that grace by giving up all of His rights and submitting to the plan of the Father to redeem us all.

Sealacamp
 
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TimRout

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I do it reluctantly because I have some underlying reasons that my answers may not be received. "P" for Preseverance is my speciality, but "P" for Particular may do also.

God Bless

Till all are one.
Sounds good brother. Perseverance Of The Saints it is.
 
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TimRout

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Concepts To Consider


SECONDARY MEANS:
Often, when critics of Calvinism seek to find fault, they demonstrate a lack of understanding concerning the very thing against which they would argue. Some will say, "If you claim that God is in sovereign control of absolutely everything, then you're saying that God planned the fall, and therefore God is the author of sin."


Oddly enough, while this argument might at first seem to carry some substance, it fails to consider the actual position the majority of Calvinists have espoused down through the years; namely, the Doctrine Of Secondary Means. God did indeed decree the fall and the existence of evil. If He had not, then these things would not have come about. However, God's creatures nevertheless acted in keeping with their own wills, rebelling against their Creator and bringing upon themselves the due penalty of their transgressions. We will discuss this matter further in the "Compatibilism" section.


EQUAL ULTIMACY:
At this juncture, it is important to point out an heretical theology that Calvinists strongly repudiate. Equal Ultimacy is not Calvinism, though to the untrained eye it might at first seem similar. Equal Ultimacy teaches that human beings are created in a state of moral neutrality, and are then programmed by God to be either good or bad, savable or unsavable. This theology does indeed make God the author of sin, and is therefore heterodoxical.


TOTAL DEPRAVITY:
The historical Calvinist position regarding the nature of man asserts that man is totally depraved. This means the natural man is dead in his tresspasses and sins, enslaved to unrighteousness, in love with wickedness, and utterly helpless to change his own heart, comprehend the gospel, or believe on the Lord Jesus Christ unto salvation. Others will discuss this doctrine in greater detail, but I point it out here in order to contrast the biblical doctrine of Total Depravity, with the false doctrine of Equal Ultimacy.


Compatiblism
THE ARGUMENT:
Critics of Calvinist theology will sometimes make statements like, "You think we're all a bunch of ROBOTS!" They assert this sort of thing in response to the Calvinist view that "free will" is unbiblical. However, Calvinists do not argue that we are robots, or puppets on a string. We believe that man has a will, but we do not believe his will is free (in the libertarian sense). Rather, in keeping with total depravity, we believe man's will is enslaved to sin [Ro. 6:6]. Everything the natural man does is corrupt; even his best efforts are tainted with transgressive tendencies [Is. 64:6]. Yet this does not keep God from getting His own way [Ro. 8:28].
One Reformed theologian likes to put it this way: God has a will. I have a will. When my will comes into conflict with God's will, God wins! This is the heart of the Doctrine Of Compatiblism. There is a compatible interaction between the will of God and the will of man, such that man always acts in keeping with his desires, yet God always gets His way. And since God's intentions are always holy, He cannot be accused of authoring sin, even though His holy gameplan requires that sin exist. Confusing? Perhaps a biblical example would be helpful.

Then Joseph said to his brothers, "I am Joseph! Is my father still alive?" But his brothers could not answer him, for they were dismayed at his presence. Then Joseph said to his brothers, "Please come closer to me." And they came closer. And he said, "I am your brother Joseph, whom you sold into Egypt. Now do not be grieved or angry with yourselves, because you sold me here, for God sent me before you to preserve life. For the famine has been in the land these two years, and there are still five years in which there will be neither plowing nor harvesting. God sent me before you to preserve for you a remnant in the earth, and to keep you alive by a great deliverance. Now, therefore, it was not you who sent me here, but God; and He has made me a father to Pharaoh and lord of all his household and ruler over all the land of Egypt." [Gen. 45:3-8/NASB]​

If one were to ask the brothers "Who sold Joseph into slavery?", their immediate answer would have been, "We did." Would they be lying? Not at all. It is perfectly true that the brothers sold Joseph into slavery.

On the other hand, it is ALSO true that God was the one who caused Joseph to be sold into slavery. Even though the brothers acted in keeping with their own wicked desires, this did nothing to contravene the sovereign, holy plan of God.

Now then, some will say, "God didn't cause Joseph to be sold into slavery. He just USED the free actions of Joseph's brothers and steered them a bit." As always, though, we must take the matter back to the text of Scripture. Consider the conversation Joseph had with his brothers following their father Jacob's death. The brothers rightly feared that Joseph might kill them now that their father was no longer around.

But Joseph said to them, "Do not be afraid, for am I in God's place? As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive." [Gen. 50:19-20/NASB]​

Notice that there are two wills in play here -- two intentions for the same event. The brothers intended their actions for evil, but God intended their actions for good. Thus, God did not merely use the wicked actions of the brothers; He "meant" them to happen. Intention demands a plan. Thus God planned Joseph's experiences. But note the key distinction here: God intends evil to accomplish good. All God's actions are good because the outcomes of each action results in good...even if the process itself is horrific.

Here is a Bible promise many Christians rightly hold on to:

"And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose." [Ro. 8:28/NASB]​

If God were not sovereignly in control of everything, including evil, then this verse would be meaningless.



SUMMATION:

You have a will. God has a will. When your will comes into conflict with God's will, God wins!

God is not the author of sin, but through the use of secondary means, He maintains absolute control over every detail of His creation. He knows all things exhaustively -- past, present, and future. What He intends comes to pass and nothing can stop Him from succeeding in all He has planned. When man acts in keeping with his own fleshly will, this in no way impedes God's sovereign decree, but rather serves to fulfill it.
 
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LiturgyInDMinor

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Limited Atonement...the "L" part one:

The doctrine of Limited Atonement (or Particular Redemption) is probably the most controversial of the doctrines of grace and most difficult to accept by many believers. Limited Atonement states that Christ's redeeming work was intended to save the elect only, and actually secured salvation for them. His death was the substitutionary endurance of the penalty of sin in the place of certain specified sinners. In addition to putting away the sins of His people, Christ's redemption secured everything necessary for their salvation; including faith which unites them to Him. The gift of faith is infallibly applied by the Spirit to all for whom Christ died, therefore guaranteeing their salvation.
Scriptural Support:
Exodus 4:21, 14:4, 8, 17; Deuteronomy 2:30, 9:4-7, 29:4; Joshua 11:19; 1 Samuel 2:25, 3:14; 2 Samuel 17:14; Psalm 105:25; Proverbs 15:8, 26, 28:9; Isaiah 53:11; Jeremiah 24:7; Matthew 1:21, 11:25-27, 13:10-15, 44-46, 15:13, 20:28, 22:14, 24:22; Luke 8:15, 13:23, 19:42; John 5:21, 6:37, 44, 65, 8:42-47, 10:11, 14, 26-28, 11:49-53, 12:37-41, 13:1, 18, 15:16, 17:2, 6, 9, 18:9, 37; Acts 2:39, 13:48, 18:27, 19:9; Romans 9:10-26, 11:5-10; 1 Corinthians 1:18-31, 2:14; 2 Corinthians 2:14-16, 4:3; Galatians 1:3; Ephesians 2:1-10; Colossians 2:13; 2 Thessalonians 2:9-14; 2 Timothy 2:20, 25; Titus 2:14; Hebrews 1:3, 14, 2:9, 16 (cp. Galatians 3:29, 4:28-31), 9:28; 1 Peter 2:8; 2 Peter 2:7; 1 John 4:6; Jude 1, 14; Revelation 13:8, 17:8, 15-18, 21:27.

The first thing to consider is the purpose of Christ's death. Hebrews 10:9 says that Jesus came to do the will of the Father. So it follows that the purpose of His death was to accomplish the Father's will. But what was the Father's will in the death of Christ? It is shown from Scripture upon the doctrine of unconditional election(someone elses post I hope. ) that it is the purpose of the Father to choose some for salvation, not make salvation a potential for all based on the exercise of free will, which is totally corrupted and depraved by sin. If, then, Christ came to fulfill the purpose of the Father; and it was not the purpose of the Father to elect some to salvation rather than all; then it logically follows that it was not the purpose of Christ to die for all men.
 
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student ad x

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Howdy all,


Efficacious grace or irresistible grace:

Man in his natural state of being is radically corrupt of purpose and at enmity with God, separated from His Holiness. Man's natural heart condition does not seek out God, rather, openly rebells in sin and suppresses the things of God. What man requires is an inward change, yet man in his fallen state doesn't realize this need, nor have the capacity to initiate the change from within himself. This change, a change in the condition of the heart, this spiritual resurrection is regeneration, and it is a sovereign gift of God.

This inward change: man turning from the bondage of sin and seeker of self purpose to a man seeker of holiness and the righteousness of God is brought about by His efficacious grace or irresistible grace alone. By God's efficacious grace, a person is so influenced by Divine power, that a holy character is born & the mind illuminated to see and hear the things of God. The conception of self and sin is changed by the Holy Spirit. As He constrains a person to yield to new motives and desires, the person voluntarily seeks the will of God - professing Jesus as Lord and the offer of salvation in Him. This change, created within the soul by God, is wrought through this new principle of life which is evidenced by the exercising of repentance and faith.

I'll go ahead and mention this as one must remember there is an outward call and an inward calling. The outer call goes out in a church, or in the open air, or through reading God's Word, but not everyone hears the message or is convinced of their sin. For a work of salvation to be wrought, the outward call must be accompanied by the inward call of God's Holy Spirit. When God calls a man or woman in this way, it cannot be frustrated.

An example of the efficacious call or inner call and the outer calling is in Acts 16:14. Paul preaches the Gospel of Christ crucified to a group of women by the riverside at Philippi. As he does so, a woman named Lydia hears the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached by Paul. The Lord opened Lydia's heart to respond to the Gospel. Paul, the preacher, spoke to Lydia's ear — the outward call; but the Lord spoke to Lydia's heart — the inward call, an efficacious calling.

My brother's, as this is only one way I would try to explain to others without pulling out Berkhof or Dabney, feel free to correct my rendering of the doctrine if I am in error in any way.

humbly,
Cam
 
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TimRout

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A good introduction brother. Thank-you.
 
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keryakos

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Yes they can if by grace you mean unmerited favor ..

As to the rest i say after you ..if you can maintain a polite discourse then so can i ..
 
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DeaconDean

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Among the doctrines of grace, this one ranks right up there among the top debated ones. To most Baptists, most of the Refromed faith, and all of the Calvinistic faith, believe in the Perseverance of the Saints.

However, in todays society, with liberalism running rampant, and with the ever push of Arminian beliefs, this doctrine is quickly being refuted and denied.

Many today hear this and John Calvin automatically springs to mind. With the T.U.I.L.P. outline. Many however fail to take into account where Calvin got his premise. Just like Predestination, people often link this doctrine to Calvin, yet they fail to realize that these two doctrines were originally formulated by a Bishop of the Roman Catholic church.

Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, first wrote treasties on both these subjects. Augustine wrote: "On the Gift of Perseverance" sometime between AD 428-429.

But in reality, the doctrine goes even further back than this. Isaiah the Prophet is first mentioned in 2 Kings 19:2:

"And he sent Eliakim, which was over the household, and Shebna the scribe, and the elders of the priests, covered with sackcloth, to Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz." (KJV)

You may ask why I bring this out. It is because that with Isaiah, we see the forumation of the doctrine of preseverance. It is Isaiah that states:

"And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you: I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you." -Isa. 46:4 (KJV)

And it is Jeremiah, Isaiah's contemporary, who said:

"And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me." -Jer. 32:40 (KJV)

The core of the doctrine of the Perseverance of the saints hinges mainly around several passages in the New Testament.

In the book of John we have two passages:

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day." -Jn. 6:39 (KJV)

And:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." -Jn. 10:27-29 (KJV)

Also at the heart of this doctrine is the belief in one of the attributes of God, His omnipotence.

In recent years there has been the Judas controversy where the belief was that Jesus worked with Judas to bring about God's plan. However, this writer see's this as nothing more than another attempt by Satan to spread unbelief among believers. Jesus ws given 12 disciples for his ministry. And according to our Saviors own words, He lost none but the son of perdition. (cf. Jn. 17:12) If Judas was a real disciple to begin with, how is it Jesus associated him with being a son of the devil?

Judas could betry Jesus because even though he was one of the twelve, he was not "saved" to begin with.

Jesus taught that all that the Father gavce Him, He would lose none, and of them, He would raise them in the last day. This certainly applies to the disciples, but more importantly, it applies to the believer today.

In John 10, we outlined:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

True sheep of the Lord, know His voice. They know the voice of their shepherd and they will not follow after the voice of another. Jesus stated that He gave to them eternal life. Eternal life is not eternal life if it can be gained in the morning, lost by noon time, and gained in the evening. We shal never perish and no man can take us out of Jesus' hand. Jesus states that since the Father gave them to Him, the Father is greater than Him, and no man is able to pluck them out of the Father's hand.

The reason I taked of God's omnipotence (all-powerful) was to bring out the importance of John 10:26. No man can take us out of the Father's hand, not even ourselves, for if we could, then God would cease to be omnipotent because man would be more powerful than the Lord God.

The Apostle Paul taught us:

"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: " -Phil. 1:6 (KJV)

God began a work in the believer beginning at the point of salvation, and no matter what, God will see it through to fruition.

Now we know that in this life, just because we are saved, born-again, that sinning will not stop. And we also recognize that certain incidents in our lives may cause us to doubt our faith, and may even cause us to drift back out into an old sinful lifestyle.

However, just becase one can and often does sin, does not mean we (born-again, blood bought, saved, believers) will be left in that condition. As in the parable of the prodigal son, we may drift back out into sin, and we may endure "spiritual" spankings from the Lord, but God in His infinate mercy, will call us back into the fold.

Hebrews 12: 6-8 tells us that God's own sons, whom He loves, if they drift away, they will receive punishement, and if they don't, then they are not sons:

"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons."

And if we go astray, we can be assured the the Good Shepherd will come and find us:

"How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray." -Mt. 18:12-13 (KJV)

And I can testify personally that the Good Shepherd indeed came and found me when I went astray.

And through it all, it is a testimony to God's Sovereignty that while we have put forth an effort, ultimately, it is not our doings, but God's that we are kept in Him:

"Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." -1 Pet. 1:5 (KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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TimRout

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The Golden Chain Of Redemption
[Ro. 8:29-30]

DIVINE FOREKNOWLEDGE:
A common error made by some critics of Calvinism, relates to their understanding of divine foreknowledge. In defense of free will, they often insist that God's foreknowledge is passive -- meaning that before creation, God gazed down the tunnels of time and passively received information from the future -- information about who would believe on Christ, and who would not. Then, based on this foreknown data, God chose to elect unto salvation all whom He foreknew would employ their free wills and believe. This argument is intended to preserve the free will of man, while accounting for the sovereignty of God. Thus the individual alone is responsible for the eternal outcome.

While this argument might at first seem reasonable, it presents at least two significant problems:

1. If God knows in advance who will believe and who will not, yet He chooses to create all people anyway, then He is still responsible for the outcome.

2.
προέγνω (foreknew) is an active verb. Active verbs describe an action performed by the subject; passive verbs, on the other hand, describe something being done to (or received by) the subject. It is impossible to argue from the text of Romans 8:29-30 that God's foreknowledge is passive. προέγνω is an active verb. Therefore, it describes something God did, not something God received. In this case, God actively foreknew all whom He would predestine, call, justify, and glorify. Each of the verbs in Romans 8:29-30 is an active verb, and therefore each is something God does. From first to last, salvation is of the Lord.

"For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." [Ro. 8:29-30/NASB]
 
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the particular baptist

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U for Unconditional Election

Part 1


Summary:

Unconditional Election is the doctrine which states that God chose those whom he was pleased to bring to a knowledge of Himself, not based upon any merit shown by the object of His grace and not based upon His looking forward to discover who would "accept" the offer of the gospel. God has elected, based solely upon the counsel of His own will, some for glory and others for damnation

Romans 9:15,21-23 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory.




He has done this act before the foundations of the world

Ephesians 1:4-9 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ.




This doctrine does not rule out, however, man's responsibility to believe in the redeeming work of God the Son

John 3:16-18 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that all the believing ones in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.





Scripture presents a tension between God's sovereignty in salvation, and man's responsibility to believe which it does not try to resolve. Both are true -- to deny man's responsibility is to affirm an unbiblical hyper-calvinism; to deny God's sovereignty is to affirm an unbiblical Arminianism.





The elect are saved unto good works

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.





Thus, though good works will never bridge the gulf between man and God that was formed in the Fall, good works are a result of God's saving grace. This is what Peter means when he admonishes the Christian reader to make his "calling" and "election" sure

2 Peter 1:10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.

Bearing the fruit of good works is an indication that God has sown seeds of grace in fertile soil.





Unconditional Election
is also summarized in historic Baptist confessions;

































 
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Part II

Unconditional Election


Historic Baptist Confessions cont.












































The following verses explicitly state that God is righteous, good, just, holy, in all that He does.

Daniel 9:14 Therefore the LORD has kept ready the calamity and has brought it upon us, for the LORD our God is righteous in all the works that he has done, and we have not obeyed his voice.

Psalms 145:17 The LORD is righteous in all his ways and kind in all his works.

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is upright, and all his work is done in faithfulness.

Psalms 103:22 Bless the LORD, all his works, in all places of his dominion. Bless the LORD, O my soul!




The following verses explicitly states that God has made all things for Himself, even the wicked, and reserves them for judgment.

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

2Peter 2:9 ... the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment

2Peter 2:17 These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm. For them the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved.

Jude 1:13 wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.

Romans 9:21-23 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory


2Timothy 2:20 Now in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and clay, some for honorable use, some for dishonorable.




Word Study, Election

evklogh, ekloge {ek-log-ay'} • 1) the act of picking out, choosing 1a) of the act of God's will by which before the foundation of the world he decreed his blessings to certain persons 1b) the decree made from choice by which he determined to bless certain persons through Christ by grace alone 2) a thing or person chosen 2a) of persons: God's elect


evklekto,jeklektos{ek-lek-tos'} • from 1586; TDNT - 4:181,505; adj • AV - elect 16, chosen 7; 23 • 1) picked out, chosen 1a) chosen by God, 1a1) to obtain salvation through Christ 1a1a) Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God 1a2) the Messiah in called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable 1a3) choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians eklektos {ek-lek-tos'} • from 1586; TDNT - 4:181,505; adj • AV - elect 16, chosen 7; 23 • 1) picked out, chosen 1a) chosen by God, 1a1) to obtain salvation through Christ 1a1a) Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God 1a2) the Messiah in called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable 1a3) choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians


Matt. 24:22 Matt. 24:24 Matt. 24:31 Mk. 13:20 Mk. 13:22 Mk. 13:27 2 Tim. 2:10 Acts 9:15 Rom. 9:11 Rom. 11:5 Rom. 11:7 Rom. 11:28 1 Thess. 1:4 2 Pet. 1:10


KJV Mark 13:27, "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."



GNT Mark 13:27kai. to,te avpostelei/ tou.j avgge,louj kai. evpisuna,xei tou.j evklektou.j Îauvtou/Ð evk tw/n tessa,rwn avne,mwn avpV a;krou gh/j e[wj a;krou ouvranou/
 
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