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Which makes Christ the Justifier. What made Jesus Christ the Divine Logos the Justifier?Gal. 2:17
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Hi Ripheus, just to be clear before I comment further, you think that the idea of imputation is "profane", whether that be the Father crediting His Son's righteousness to our accounts or, on the other hand, His crediting of our sinfulness to His Son's account?
The Pilgrim's Progress is a fictional work by John Bunyan, it is not meant to be taken literally, it is meant to be an allegory.
I don't quite understand, you start a thread saying that The Doctrine of Imputation is Hypocritical, but you aren't able to come up with anything that you are saying is Hypocritical.
Isaiah 53 shows this as well:
Isaiah 53: NASB
11As a result of the anguish of His soul,
He will see it and be satisfied;
By His knowledge the Righteous One,
My Servant, will justify the many,
As He will bear their iniquities.
When you start with a false precept, whatever follows will not stand. Therefore, if you think it is a waste of time to stop or point out construction on quicksand, that's on you.Do not waste my time with word-games, unless you find it pleasing to speak so disrespectfully of the question of our salvation.
see preceding.You asked me to demonstrate that there are works of Christ that are imputed to us and by which we are saved. Since God does not impute any of Christ's works to us in order to save us, you seemed to be asking me to demonstrate something false.
You still did not show, even (apparently) in the quotes you posted, that we "Christians" think or ever said "WORKS" were 'imputed' to anyone.
RIGHTEOUSNESS is different and separate and distinct from WORKS
This wasn't questioned. (it might be later)Christ's justificatory righteousness is defined as His obedience, which is a work.
Who said our works save us ? (anyone?)When it is said that "all our righteousness is as rags" and that this is why our works do not save us,
So is Christ's righteousness imputed to anyone, and if so, then His work is also imputed to them?well, that just goes to show that Christ's righteousness is His work.
Who said our works save us ? (anyone?)
So is Christ's righteousness imputed to anyone, and if so, then His work is also imputed to them?
If so, why the title "doctrine of imputation is hypocritical" ?
I think this is clearly false.No one SAYS that our works save us, but it is entailed by the doctrine of imputation.
Do YOU believe your works save you ?!So if you don't want to believe that your works save you
I think this is clearly false.
Do YOU believe your works save you ?!
Is it your position 'we' need to be as obedient as Jesus to merit the righteousness of God?I think it's clearly true, and in the most horrible way imaginable, because the doctrine literally asserts that the actions of a person different from us are thought of (if not out-and-out believed) by God, contrary to reality, to be our actions, so that God basically lies to Himself to get us off the hook.
No.
Is it your position 'we' need to be as obedient as Jesus to merit the righteousness of God?
What does it mean to you to be justified by faith?My position is that God decides to pardon us because Christ (as a man) asks Him to, and God agrees because Christ is righteous. Not because God does a mental loop-de-loop where He looks at Christ, then looks at us, then superimposes the image of Christ over our image and so on and on.
OK, then I have a couple of more questions if you don't mind? Why the Incarnation and why the CrossHi Ripheus, just to be clear before I comment further, you think that the idea of imputation is "profane", whether that be the Father crediting His Son's righteousness to our accounts or, on the other hand, His crediting of our sinfulness to His Son's account?
Thanks!
--David
2 Corinthians 5
21 ..He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Sorry but this op, topic, thread and these ideas are looking more and more like 'loop-de-loop's.....My position is that God decides to pardon us because Christ (as a man) asks Him to, and God agrees because Christ is righteous. Not because God does a mental loop-de-loop where He looks at Christ, then looks at us, then superimposes the image of Christ over our image and so on and on.
What does it mean to you to be justified by faith?
OK, then I have a couple of more questions if you don't mind? Why the Incarnation and why the CrossIOW, why do you believe that Jesus had to 1. come here as a man and 2. die that horrible death on the Cross for us if it was not absolutely necessary for Him to do so?
Sorry but this op, topic, thread and these ideas are looking more and more like 'loop-de-loop's.....
i.e. the position(s) and idea(s) stated in this quoted post is not found in Yahweh's Plan, Purpose or Word.
Consider going back and discovering, if Yahweh permits, who taught you this and judge it according to Yahweh's Word (i.e. don't accept it because of whatever other reasons you believed it when you were taught this) .
Thank you for the thoughtful reply.We have faith that Christ will save us, that is, that He will ask the Father for our forgiveness, and that because of His righteousness, His Father will agree. We don't have a merely intellectual assent to the declarative sentences, "Jesus is God," or suchlike. We have a specific mental image of Christ saving us in mind.
Hi Ripheus, why do you believe that the Lord's death on the Cross was absolutely necessary for our salvation?I never said that it wasn't absolutely necessary for Jesus Christ to die on a cross as such, did I? I just said that it wasn't due to the logic of imputation that He had to.
Notice that you said imputed works, earlier. NOT imputed righteousness.
See?
There is A LOT OF DIFFERENCE.
Yes, it seems you were apparently terribly wrong.... no worries though, it can be corrected.
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