The Deception of Evolution and the Fossil Sequence

RickG · May 30, 2015

MoreCoffee said:
Okay, and is atheism a religion for folk who follow it with great devotion as the Oxford English Dictionary defines religion under 1.2 Noun? (see this link)

Atheism doesn't follow anything. It only describes people who do not believe in a God, any god.

MoreCoffee · May 30, 2015

Since atheism is a religion under the definition I gave earlier; namely that Religion = a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion. I think the main task is done. But if you want to complain that Christianity is a religion then I am not going to baulk at that. I am not one of the folk who thinks "religion" is a bad word. Some folk do but I am not one of them.

Subduction Zone · May 30, 2015

GrimKingGrim said:
How do you "follow" atheism? And more importantly how did this topic even come up?

A foolish AV derail and MoreCoffee thought that he could defend it. He keeps forgetting the hard part of the assignment.

AV1611VET · May 30, 2015

Subduction Zone said:
But one cannot "follow" atheism with great devotion.

Atheism replaces the King James Bible with their own King James* versions.

* James McGraw ... as in McGraw-Hill textbooks.

MoreCoffee · May 30, 2015

RickG said:
Atheism doesn't follow anything. It only describes people who do not believe in a God, any god.

Your post is equivocating. The definition says Religion = a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion. It doesn't say Atheism is following anything. But people may follow atheism with great devotion.

Subduction Zone · May 30, 2015

MoreCoffee said:
Since atheism is a religion under the definition I gave earlier; namely that Religion = a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion. I think the main task is done. But if you want to complain that Christianity is a religion then I am not going to baulk at that. I am not one of the folk who thinks "religion" is a bad word. Some folk do but I am not one of them.

No, you did not understand the challenge. The challenge was to show that atheism is a religion and Christianity is not by the same definition. That was the claim of AV. You can go back and look at it. I doubt if he will have edited it.

Subduction Zone · May 30, 2015

AV1611VET said:
Atheism replaces the King James Bible with their own King James versions.

(James McGraw ... as in McGraw-Hill textbooks.)

Nope, unlike you we do not worship false idols.

MoreCoffee · May 30, 2015

Subduction Zone said:
No, you did not understand the challenge. ....

Bah & humbug.

RickG · May 30, 2015

Now, what was this thread about?????????????????????????

Subduction Zone · May 30, 2015

MoreCoffee said:
Bah & humbug.

And again, this is just an admission that you are wrong. Thank you. Here is a quote of AV's post that you did not understand:

"I came up with a definition of "religion" that both excludes Christianity as a religion and includes atheism as a religion:"

MoreCoffee · May 30, 2015

Subduction Zone said:
That is the equivalent of an admission of defeat on your part. ...

It's a declaration that the complaint in your post was nonsense; "bah & humbug" is a good short way of saying so.

Subduction Zone · May 30, 2015

MoreCoffee said:
It's a declaration that the complaint in your post was nonsense; "bah & humbug" is a good short way of saying so.

Nope, it was an admission of defeat, and you still have failed to own up your mistake even after I quoted AV's claim for you.

MoreCoffee · May 30, 2015

Let's return to the topic.

Religion = a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion.

Atheism fits that definition. It is a standard definition for the word religion. Therefore it is fair and reasonable to assert that atheism is a religion for those who pursue it with great devotion or who follow it with great devotion. People such as Richard Dawkins and the late Christopher Hitchens are prominent examples of atheists who pursued their atheism with great devotion and hence were religious about it.

Subduction Zone · May 30, 2015

MoreCoffee said:
Let's return to the topic.

Religion = a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion.

Atheism fits that definition. It is a standard definition for the word religion. Therefore it is fair and reasonable to assert that atheism is a religion for those who pursue it with great devotion or who follow it with great devotion. People such as Richard Dawkins and the late Christopher Hitchens are prominent examples of atheists who pursued their atheism with great devotion and hence were religious about it.

Once more that was only half of the challenge. Go back and look at my reply to AV about this claim of his:

"I came up with a definition of "religion" that both excludes Christianity as a religion and includes atheism as a religion:"

How does your definition exclude Christianity as a religion? If it does not then it fails. You tried to change the challenge after the fact.

GrimKingGrim · May 30, 2015

MoreCoffee said:
Let's return to the topic.

Religion = a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion.

Lol ironically this wasn't the actual topic.

Atheism fits that definition.

No I'm afraid not. Atheism lacks a point of interest.

It is a standard definition for the word religion. Therefore it is fair and reasonable to assert that atheism is a religion for those who pursue it with great devotion or who follow it with great devotion.

Give me an example of how one can pursue atheism. Let's see you.

People such as Richard Dawkins and the late Christopher Hitchens are prominent examples of atheists who pursued their atheism with great devotion and hence were religious about it.

I believe someone who has an interest in the effects religions can have on society is not religious. Their harsh critiques of religions are reactive, not proactive. They recognize religion's history and the current effects it's having in today's world. They're people who actively take up talking about it because it concerns them. That's what they're interested in doing. Me, once I'm not on this forum I could care less. As long as I'm not being machete'd in the street for not believing you can go about your day. We don't "follow" atheism with a devotion, we just are atheists.

MoreCoffee · May 30, 2015

GrimKingGrim said:
Atheism lacks a point of interest.

That's true

Subduction Zone · May 30, 2015

And I need to emphasize that even if we grant that a definition of religion could be found where atheism would be a "religion" that same definition will also say that Christianity is a religion, thus failing the challenge. Yes, it is always easy to win an argument if you can change the argument after it started. It seems that MoreCoffee simply did not understand the challenge.

lifepsyop · May 30, 2015

Atheism = "lack of belief in God" = a belief that God is unnecessary to explain the universe.

In that sense Atheism is a religious position in that it is a set of beliefs about the ultimate cause, nature, and purpose of the universe. Saying you "lack belief in God" is simultaneously a positive metaphysical claim whether you like it or not.

This "lack of belief" thing is just a trick used in order to cowardly avoid defending one's metaphysical worldview.

It is essentially no different than saying Theism is the "lack of belief in a universe in which God is unnecessary". Anyone can flip their position into a "lack of belief" of the opposite.

As far as I know, modern atheists were the first ideological sect that began running away from the prospect of actually defending their beliefs like this.

RickG · May 30, 2015

RickG said:
Well AV, I'm still waiting for you explanation of why you discredit speleomeths. Or, perhaps you are realized that you are in way over your head with a baseless supported claim? Or is it that when you said deep time doesn't work, you realized that you were contradicting your own idea of embedded age?

Still waiting AV.

florida2 · May 30, 2015

MoreCoffee said:
Since atheism is a religion under the definition I gave earlier; namely that Religion = a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion. I think the main task is done. But if you want to complain that Christianity is a religion then I am not going to baulk at that. I am not one of the folk who thinks "religion" is a bad word. Some folk do but I am not one of them.

The main problem is that your definition is so vague and all-encompassing to become meaningless.

If I train over the course of months for a marathon, is that a religion?

If sit down and read a book cover to cover, is that a religion?

If I spend a lot of time and money collecting 19th century teapots, is that a religion?

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