The Death and True Resurrection of Jesus.

Bro.T said:

So you saying we should move the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week from Moses time, to those verses you post by Paul in his time of teaching? Is that what you are saying?

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No. In fact, that has been ruled out time after time in the discussions here about this same issue.

Bro.T said:

Of course you can worship any day any time, who and what ever you want. But that doesn't mean you worshiping Jesus according to the Bible. Because you not going to find those things you want to worship in the Bible. But I see you will try to use the Bible to do it. Now there's another Jesus Paul talks about in 2 Corinthians 11: 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. And that's what it looks like you choose to do.

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That's like saying "if you pray on a Tuesday you are not talking to the right God, because Jesus never commanded us to pray on Tuesdays". Ridiculous.

You should get down from your high horse and stop being legalistic. You don't even seem to know the God we are talking about here.

I was taught that in the early days of the church people were becoming believers but were still "celebrating" some of the pagan festivals. In order to break this habit the church leaders introduced the celebrations of Easter and Christmas to allow them to celebrate something in a similar way but with Jesus at the core of it instead of the pagan beliefs. Easter includes some of the elements of the pagan festival such as eggs, chicks and new life, but instead of leading people away from Jesus they were used to lead people to Him.

The whole bunny thing is something that as far as I know was added by Americans much, much later.

So yes the OP is fairly accurate in saying Easter is not biblical but that doesnt mean its pagan, in fact just the opposite, it is so people didnt fall back into pagan practices.

GirdYourLoins said:

I was taught that in the early days of the church people were becoming believers but were still "celebrating" some of the pagan festivals. In order to break this habit the church leaders introduced the celebrations of Easter and Christmas to allow them to celebrate something in a similar way but with Jesus at the core of it instead of the pagan beliefs. Easter includes some of the elements of the pagan festival such as eggs, chicks and new life, but instead of leading people away from Jesus they were used to lead people to Him.

The whole bunny thing is something that as far as I know was added by Americans much, much later.

So yes the OP is fairly accurate in saying Easter is not biblical but that doesnt mean its pagan, in fact just the opposite, it is so people didnt fall back into pagan practices.

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What you share above is something commonly repeated, but is actually not true.

The Christian Feast of Pascha (usually called "Easter" in English) goes about as far back as can be in Christian history. It was universal and ubiquitous among Christians throughout the known world by the mid 2nd century.

When Anicetus was bishop of Rome (157-168 AD) he and Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna met together and discussed many things at length. When they came to the topic of the celebration of Pascha they differed.

In Smyrna and other parts of the Christian East the method to calculate the Feast of Pascha was effectively to simply follow the Jewish calculation of Passover; and so the Christian Paschal Feast occurred on the same day as the Jewish Passover--Nissan 14th. While in Rome, and other parts of the Christian West, as well as in Alexandria the practice was to celebrate the Paschal Feast on the first Sunday after the Jewish Passover.

These two Christian pastors both asserted that the customs of their practice dated back to the Apostles themselves; and they agreed that there was no reason to fight over the matter.

Over time the Quartodeciman tradition (Pascha on Nissan 14th) slowly faded from usage, while other methods of computation, similar to what Rome and Alexandria did, became more common. By the time of the Council of Nicea this method of computation had become nearly universal--with some regional differences. The Council of Nicea, which had gathered chiefly to address the Arian Controversy, also took the time to produce a standardized way to compute the Paschal Feast. They settled on the computation method that was already being used by the Church in Alexandria: The Paschal Feast was to be celebrated on the first Sunday after the Paschal Full Moon (the first full moon after March 21st, the spring equinox in the Northern Hemisphere).

That's why the Paschal Feast this year (2021) is on Sunday, the 4th of April. Because the Paschal Full Moon is March 28th this year. It's a simple way to calculate using things which are ubiquitous in nature--the earth's revolution around the sun and the phases of the moon.

So why is the Paschal Feast--Pascha for short--called "Easter" in English? To that we need to turn to a bit of English and European history.

In the 5th century we get into what historians refer to as the Migration Period, a period of massive migration of Germanic tribes and peoples across Europe. It's the same thing that resulted in the fall of Rome to the Visigoths and Vandals. It's why France is called France and not Gaul. In this period was when the Anglo-Saxon invasions of Britain took place. As Rome pulled out of Britain, the power vaccuum was filled by invading Anglo-Saxons.

After the Anglo-Saxon invasion, they were converted to Christianity by both Irish missionary-monks and missionaries from mainland Europe. A man by the name of Augustine (different Augustine) was sent by the bishop of Rome to establish a diocese in southern Britain--which became the Archdiocese of Canterbury, and to this day the Archbishop of Canterbury is still the spiritual head of the English Church. Under the work of Augustine of Canterbury and the Irish monks the Anglo-Saxons became Christians.

Fast forward several centuries, and we have an Anglo-Saxon monk by the name of Bede writing his possibly most well-known work, On the Reckoning of Time. In a rather brief section in the work he says he felt it was important to discuss how the Anglo-Saxons keep time, and offers the names of the 12 months which the Anglo-Saxons use. He writes that the equivalent Anglo-Saxon month to Roman April was called Eostermonath, which according to Bede gets its name from a goddess named Eostre at one time worshiped by the Anglo-Saxons prior to their conversion to Christianity. But they had long ago abandoned all their pagan practices and now only followed the Christian religion.

And that's it. That's everything Bede has to say about that. And we don't have any other sources. In fact, nobody other than Bede even mentions a goddess named Eostre that was worshipped by the formerly Pagan Anglo-Saxons. Not a single record, no written history, no archeological evidence, nothing. Which has raised the question among many scholars about the possibility that Bede may be wrong--that there was no goddess worshiped by the Anglo-Saxons named Eostre, and so Bede's etymology of Eostermonath was incorrect. It wouldn't be the first time ancient or medieval people were mistaken about the etymology of a word, false etymologies are actually pretty common.

So if Eostre wasn't the name of a goddess, then what could have been the reason for the name Eostermonath? One theory is that it really does just mean something like dawn or dawning month--the month in which the sun has began to rise earlier in the morning each day. By connecting Eostre with old word for "dawn"--like our modern word "east", the direction of the rising sun.

The simple truth of the matter is we don't know, Bede is our only source, and he could be mistaken. But in either case you'll notice that the only thing "pagan" here that could exist is the name "Easter" itself. But worrying about that is like worrying about the fact that the days of the week are named after Roman and Germanic gods (Sun's Day, Moon's Day, Tiw's Day, Woden's Day, Thor's Day, Frigga's Day, Saturn's Day). Or that many of the names of the months are named after Roman gods--January-Janus, May-Maya, June-Juno, etc.

To which we might quote Shakespeare, "A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet."

Call it "Easter", or call it by the more ancient and more universal Pascha, it's the same thing--the Feast of our Lord's Glorious Resurrection from the Dead.

The topic of Christmas is a much more complicated subject, but one which I'd be willing to go into discussion about if you'd be interested.

-CryptoLutheran

Bro.T said:

Let's continue in Mark (15:42) And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, (43) Joseph of Aarimathaea, an honourable counseller, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.

The above scriptures are where the problem lied with the early church trying to interpret the events of the bible. One should take note, that what the majority of modern day Christians practice or follow come directly from the Roman Catholic Church. You had non spiritual people trying to decipher events that were spiritual. Since the scriptures stated, that the preparation day, was the day before the Sabbath, they automatically assumed this event took place on a Friday, because they knew the Lord's Sabbath was from Friday evening to Saturday evening.

That is how they came up with the concept that Jesus died on Friday and He rose early Sunday morning. What they failed to take into account were the Lord's Holy Days or as they are also called High Sabbaths. There are seven yearly Sabbaths, and they, with the exception of Pentecost, can fall on any day of the week. At the beginning of this lesson, it was explained in Leviticus (23:4) that the Passover which is the 14th of the month, is the day before the feast of Unleavened Bread, which is a Holy Day or A High Sabbath. The Passover is sometimes referred as the preparation day because they used this day to prepare for the feast. The Feast of Unleavened Bread is the Sabbath which was being refereed to in Mark 15:42) when it was stated that Joseph craved the body of Jesus. Jesus had been crucified on the Passover and the next day was the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Jesus foretold when His death would occur.

(Matthew 26:1) And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples, (2) Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Now remember God's days start at evening and end the next evening. Keep that in mind as you view the next set of scriptures. Jesus had been betrayed by Judas the evening of the Passover. John 13 tells how Jesus and His disciples, that evening, were sharing the Passover meal. John (18:3) shows that same evening; Jesus was betrayed and taken away. It was still nighttime when they took Jesus, because the men that came and took and bound Him had lanterns and torches.

Jesus was crucified the next day but it was still the Passover. Remember God's days run from sundown to sundown. Jesus had been taken into custody the night of the Passover and the next morning which is the day of the Passover, He was condemned and crucified.

The following verses deomonstrate how Pilate was willing to release Jesus the morning after he had been taken in to custody. It was still the Passover. We all know the Jews refused and Jesus was crucified.

(John 18:39) But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews? (40) Then cried they all again, saying, Not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber.

Remember Mark (15:42) Joseph craved the body of Jesus the evening of the Passover. Now one can see that this was towards the end of the Passover.
3 Days And 3 Nights

The scriptures explain how Jesus was in the earth 3 days and 3 nights just as He had foretold.
How It Really Happened

3 Days And 3 Nights
SU M T W TH F S
Days 1 1 1
Nights 1 1 1


In looking at the previous scriptures one should now have a better understanding, as to what took place. Remember Mary did not come to the Grave site until the first day of the week which is Sunday. (John 20:1) "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulcher", And it was early in the morning and it was still dark. But Jesus had already risen. That's because Jesus went into His grave right before the end of the Passover or Wed. evening. The passing of the Passover brought in the Feast of the Unleavened Bread. So Jesus would Have been in the Grave Wednesday night, Thursday daytime and Thursday night, Friday daytime, Friday night, Saturday daytime and Jesus rose right before the sun went down on Saturday. Hence one has the 3 days and 3 nights which Jesus prophesied.

His death Wednesday night is consistent with the comment of the prophet Daniel, stating the Messiah would be cut off (killed) in the midst of the week.
Daniel 9:26-27 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (Wednesday is the middle of the week) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Remember, Jesus is the sacrificial Passover Lamb).

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Completely and utterly INCORRECT!!! The witnesses on the road to Emmaus prove your scenario FALSE!

I'll never understand why people think that we cannot worship God every day at every time for every reason and that we must do it at such and such time on such and such day at such and such hour for such and such reason...that kind of thinking was what put our Savior on the cross to begin with.

Bro.T said:

Jesus said in Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

So Jesus said, “but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments,” No matter what you read in the Bible, these commandments have to be kept to enter into life, or you will be judge by them. Now let’s read further into what Jesus is saying here in Matthew… Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

This includes the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week (Saturday). This also include, Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (which includes Easter, Christmas, going to church on Sunday and any other pagan or tradition of men that may cause another God to be worship)
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. (Exodus 20:3-8)

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You can't quote the text (Matthew 19:16-17) and then say, that one must keep the ten commandments to enter into life. That chapter (Matthew 19) is not saying you must keep the ten commandments to enter life. The text is actually saying something completely different.

1. The rich young man said he kept the ten commandments
2. The rich young man went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property

Here is the proof.

Matthew 19:20-22
The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.

Did you read that?

The rich young man failed to enter life not because he disobeyed the ten commandments. But because the ten commandments do not grant life.

If you keep reading which you probably will not do. You will read that the apostles were astonished that this obedience to the ten commandments did not grant life.

Matthew 19:25-26
When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?” And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

See, the ten commandments cannot grant life. It is wrong to say that obedience to the ten commandments grants life.

Bro.T said:

Now that we have firmly established the pagan history of Easter, we will look at it from the perspective of the bible. The scriptures will show that Easter is a tradition implemented by man. The word Easter appears in the bible one time and one time only. The following verse is the one that makes reference to Easter.

Now in Acts (12:4) And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.
Now an individual may see this, as the legitimizing of the holiday Easter. After all one sees it being referred to in the bible. However, if we look at the verse directly above this one, it points to the fact, that the period being referred to is actually the Passover.

Acts (12:3) And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.) Verse (3) states that when Peter was taken it was the days of unleavened bread. One can determine that the time they were going to bring forth Peter was the Passover, by looking at the following verses. In them one will see that the Passover is the day preceding the Feast of Unleavened Bread not Easter. In addition the verse in John, states that it was a Jewish custom that the Romans would deliver unto them one at the time of the Passover.

Let's go in Leviticus (23:5) In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's passover. (23:6) And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. Now let's go into St.John (18:39) But you have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?

One will not find that its observance is supported by the bible. And that is because, Easter itself is supposed to be a commemoration of the resurrection of Jesus. And Jesus told us to commemorate His death, not His resurrection. In Luke (22:19) And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. In reading chapter 22 of the Gospel of Luke one will find that Jesus asked this of His disciples during the Passover meal. The Passover is what Jesus asked us to observe to remind ourselves that He died for us not Easter. Jesus asked us to commemorate the Passover. He was not only to die on the Passover, He became our Passover.

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Jesus could not have been crucified on the Passover as the Jews allowed no work during the Passover. The arrest, trial by the chief priests and trial by the Roman praefect Pilate would have violated Jewish law if it was done on the Passover.

In fact the last supper was on the night before the Passover meal as may be seen:

John 13:1 Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;
3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;
4 He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
5 After that he poureth water into a basin, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.

This was the last supper. Easter is the celebration of resurrection day, the first day of the week after Jesus was crucified. Most Christian churches do not roast lambs for Passover, nor eat unleavened bread for a week.

Bro.T said:

So you saying we should move the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week from Moses time, to those verses you post by Paul in his time of teaching? Is that what you are saying? Because Paul actually kept the sabbath day in his time and taught the Gentiles to do the same.

Now lets take a look at; (Acts 13:13-15, 42, 44) (v.13) Now when Paul and his company loosed from Pa’-phus, they came to Per’-ga in Pam-phyl’-I-a: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem. (v.14) But when they departed from Per’-ga, they came to An’-ti-och in Pi-sid’-I-a, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. Paul went into the church (synagogue) on the sabbath day the seventh day not the first day (Sunday). (v.15) And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. (v.42) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

The Gentiles didn’t asked Paul to come preach us something different next Sunday. They wanted Paul to preach to them the same thing that he taught the Jews, the next sabbath. Even the Gentiles knew that if they were going to serve the same God that Paul and the Jews (Israelites) served that they would have to serve him on the day that God had set up. (v.42) And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. Not the next Sunday but the next sabbath.

The day of Pentecost always land on the first day of the week. It's a High Day an Holy of the Lord. You have to go to Leviticus 23rd chapter and read the counting of the sabbaths. Paul broke on the first day week after the sabbath day. The Lord's days start at evening not morning. So the day went into the first day at Sundown. He was just follow shipping after the sabbath day. Go back and carefully read Acts 20 again. peace in Jesus name

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Jesus rose on the third day and not after three days and nights. That is a fourth day resurrection your proposing and is heresy.

Matthew 16:21
From that time Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised up on the third day.

Matthew 17:23
And they will kill Him, and He will be raised on the third day. And they were deeply grieved.

Matthew 20:19
And will hand Him over to the Gentiles to mock and scourge and crucify Him, and on the third day He will be raised up.

Acts 10:40
God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible.

1 Corinthians 15:4
And that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.

Bro.T said:

It has been taught that Jesus died on Good Friday and rose early Sunday morning. As a result of this teaching, man instituted the holiday called Easter. On Easter Sunday you have Christians, world wide paying tribute to a day, in which they believe Jesus, was resurrected. In researching the scriptures one will find that the whole concept of Jesus dying on a Friday and being resurrected on Sunday is contrary to the bible itself. In other words, this tradition directly contradicts the word of God. This lesson will examine the history of Easter a little, and then investigate the Bible concerning the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Easter Created By Man

Before we get into the death and resurrection of Jesus we need to address history of Easter itself. We will also take a look at the symbols of Easter: rabbits and eggs. What does rabbits and eggs have to do with the birth of Jesus? Furthermore, when did rabbits start laying eggs? Additionally, we will look at the history of Easter sunrise service, lilies, candles, and hot crossed buns. If you research Easter in most encyclopedias, you will see that Easter has many customs and legends that are pagan in origin and have absolutely nothing to do with Christianity.

Easter was named after Eostre (sometimes spelled Eastre), the great Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring, fertility, and new life. Similar Teutonic dawn goddesses of fertility were known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos. Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre." Thus it is easy to see how "Eastre time" became "Easter time".
Easter Sunday falls on the first Sunday after the first full moon after March 20th, the nominal date of the Vernal (sometimes referred to as spring) Equinox. This is the day (or period of days) in spring when the days and nights are of approximately equal length. This is a time of celebrating new life, the resurrection of nature from the dead, and it has typically featured fertility rites, merrymaking, and usually centers on orgiastic sexual activities. In ancient times there were the sacrificing of virgins, the worship of fertility gods and goddesses.

The Easter sunrise service, that is practiced in many Christian churches, can be traced back to the ancient pagan custom of welcoming the sun god at the vernal equinox - when daytime is about to exceed the length of the nighttime. It was a time to celebrate the return of life and reproduction to animal and plant life as well. Worship of the sun god at sunrise is the religious ritual condemned by the Lord as recorded in Ezekiel 8:15-18.

Ezekiel 8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

Ezekiel 8:15-18 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these. And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east. Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose. Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.

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Do you attend a denomination that teaches this? If so, which one?

Bro.T said:

Jesus said in Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

So Jesus said, “but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments,” No matter what you read in the Bible, these commandments have to be kept to enter into life, or you will be judge by them. Now let’s read further into what Jesus is saying here in Matthew… Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

This includes the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week (Saturday). This also include, Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (which includes Easter, Christmas, going to church on Sunday and any other pagan or tradition of men that may cause another God to be worship)
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. (Exodus 20:3-8)

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Hi Bro T,
Nice post and I don't doubt that there could be some merit in your position. I often wondered about the fact that Friday to Sunday does not equal three full days.
I really didn't want to but in here, but I gotta throw the flag on this particular post. It's you who is including "Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week (Saturday)", not Jesus. Jesus didn't say anything about the top ten commandments, he just said commandments. And you omitted the part where Jesus was asked specifically which commandments, to which Jesus responded with the commandments you have highlighted in red. If you want add more commandments from Exodus why stop at the top ten? Why not include the other commandments issued such as 17 “Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death", and several others that are considered either obsolete or too outrageous to adhere to. If Jesus wanted to "include" the commandment that makes your point, why didn't he?
Ok, got that off my chest. Nothing personal, you just happened to be in sight. I see this kind of thing on these threads all the time, where someone tries to project what God/Jesus said beyond what he actually said. I just couldn't let it go this time. I aplogize.
Carry on.

Marvin The Bass said:

The ONLY entity on Earth, POWERFUL enough, and WICKED enough to be THE Beast, is the CHURCH. The JOB of the Church is to CREATE sinners. They do this by telling people that they DO NOT have to KEEP GOD's 10 Commandments, or to KEEP the Law of MOSES, or EVEN to keep our Nation's Laws. For 2000 years, the Church has been WEAKENING the Nations. SOON the Vatican, will be able to become RULER of the World. The VERY FIRST thing the Vatican will do, is to start a NEW round of Inquisitions. BILLIONS of people will be TORTURED to DEATH. There will be only a handful of people left on the Earth when the Church is done.

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That's the spirit.

klutedavid said:

You can't quote the text (Matthew 19:16-17) and then say, that one must keep the ten commandments to enter into life. That chapter (Matthew 19) is not saying you must keep the ten commandments to enter life. The text is actually saying something completely different.

1. The rich young man said he kept the ten commandments
2. The rich young man went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property

Here is the proof.

Matthew 19:20-22
The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.

Did you read that?

The rich young man failed to enter life not because he disobeyed the ten commandments. But because the ten commandments do not grant life.

If you keep reading which you probably will not do. You will read that the apostles were astonished that this obedience to the ten commandments did not grant life.

Matthew 19:25-26
When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?” And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

See, the ten commandments cannot grant life. It is wrong to say that obedience to the ten commandments grants life.

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Hi Klutedavid.
I'm not seeing it your way. I don't see where it says the young man failed to enter life. The young man asked what he he should do to have eternal life. Jesus responded with specific commandments to follow. End of story. Well, that part of the story, anyway. The man said he follows those commandments already, is there anything else I should do. At that point Jesus told him what he needed to do to be perfect in order to get a better seat in heaven. Didn't say anything about the commandments not being enough to be saved. If that was the case, why would he answer the initial question as such? Jesus mentioned to the apostles how difficult it is for the rich to get into heaven. The apostles astonishment didn't have anything to do with the ten commandments (which is actually only six commandments in this case- Jesus didn't mention all ten). It was the "shoving the camel through the eye of a needle comment" that raised the eyebrows. At which point Jesus calmed 'em down by telling them God can do anything, including camels through needles, so don't you worry about that. That's my take, anyway.

Bro.T said:

Let's continue in Mark (15:42) And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, (43) Joseph of Aarimathaea, an honourable counseller, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.

The above scriptures are where the problem lied with the early church trying to interpret the events of the bible. One should take note, that what the majority of modern day Christians practice or follow come directly from the Roman Catholic Church. You had non spiritual people trying to decipher events that were spiritual. Since the scriptures stated, that the preparation day, was the day before the Sabbath, they automatically assumed this event took place on a Friday, because they knew the Lord's Sabbath was from Friday evening to Saturday evening.

That is how they came up with the concept that Jesus died on Friday and He rose early Sunday morning. What they failed to take into account were the Lord's Holy Days or as they are also called High Sabbaths. There are seven yearly Sabbaths, and they, with the exception of Pentecost, can fall on any day of the week. At the beginning of this lesson, it was explained in Leviticus (23:4) that the Passover which is the 14th of the month, is the day before the feast of Unleavened Bread, which is a Holy Day or A High Sabbath. The Passover is sometimes referred as the preparation day because they used this day to prepare for the feast. The Feast of Unleavened Bread is the Sabbath which was being refereed to in Mark 15:42) when it was stated that Joseph craved the body of Jesus. Jesus had been crucified on the Passover and the next day was the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Jesus foretold when His death would occur.

(Matthew 26:1) And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples, (2) Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Now remember God's days start at evening and end the next evening. Keep that in mind as you view the next set of scriptures. Jesus had been betrayed by Judas the evening of the Passover. John 13 tells how Jesus and His disciples, that evening, were sharing the Passover meal. John (18:3) shows that same evening; Jesus was betrayed and taken away. It was still nighttime when they took Jesus, because the men that came and took and bound Him had lanterns and torches.

Jesus was crucified the next day but it was still the Passover. Remember God's days run from sundown to sundown. Jesus had been taken into custody the night of the Passover and the next morning which is the day of the Passover, He was condemned and crucified.

The following verses deomonstrate how Pilate was willing to release Jesus the morning after he had been taken in to custody. It was still the Passover. We all know the Jews refused and Jesus was crucified.

(John 18:39) But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews? (40) Then cried they all again, saying, Not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber.

Remember Mark (15:42) Joseph craved the body of Jesus the evening of the Passover. Now one can see that this was towards the end of the Passover.
3 Days And 3 Nights

The scriptures explain how Jesus was in the earth 3 days and 3 nights just as He had foretold.
How It Really Happened

3 Days And 3 Nights
SU M T W TH F S
Days 1 1 1
Nights 1 1 1


In looking at the previous scriptures one should now have a better understanding, as to what took place. Remember Mary did not come to the Grave site until the first day of the week which is Sunday. (John 20:1) "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulcher", And it was early in the morning and it was still dark. But Jesus had already risen. That's because Jesus went into His grave right before the end of the Passover or Wed. evening. The passing of the Passover brought in the Feast of the Unleavened Bread. So Jesus would Have been in the Grave Wednesday night, Thursday daytime and Thursday night, Friday daytime, Friday night, Saturday daytime and Jesus rose right before the sun went down on Saturday. Hence one has the 3 days and 3 nights which Jesus prophesied.

His death Wednesday night is consistent with the comment of the prophet Daniel, stating the Messiah would be cut off (killed) in the midst of the week.
Daniel 9:26-27 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (Wednesday is the middle of the week) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Remember, Jesus is the sacrificial Passover Lamb).

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In the NT and today the Greek word for the day of the week we call Friday is parasceue, which means "preparation."
All four gospels agree that Jesus was crucified on parasceue/Friday.

Hanging by a Thread said:

Hi Klutedavid.
I'm not seeing it your way. I don't see where it says the young man failed to enter life. The young man asked what he he should do to have eternal life. Jesus responded with specific commandments to follow. End of story. Well, that part of the story, anyway. The man said he follows those commandments already, is there anything else I should do. At that point Jesus told him what he needed to do to be perfect in order to get a better seat in heaven. Didn't say anything about the commandments not being enough to be saved. If that was the case, why would he answer the initial question as such? Jesus mentioned to the apostles how difficult it is for the rich to get into heaven. The apostles astonishment didn't have anything to do with the ten commandments (which is actually only six commandments in this case- Jesus didn't mention all ten). It was the "shoving the camel through the eye of a needle comment" that raised the eyebrows. At which point Jesus calmed 'em down by telling them God can do anything, including camels through needles, so don't you worry about that. That's my take, anyway.

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Your thinking that the rich young man was saved and just lost some reward upstairs.

I think, the rich young man could not follow Jesus, because he loved his wealth too much. How do I know this?

Because the apostles said so.

Matthew 19:25
When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?”

The apostles saw the young man grieving and leaving the area, unable to follow Jesus.

It was clear that the young man knew he could not follow Jesus, which explained his reaction.

Bro.T said:

It has been taught that Jesus died on Good Friday and rose early Sunday morning. As a result of this teaching, man instituted the holiday called Easter. On Easter Sunday you have Christians, world wide paying tribute to a day, in which they believe Jesus, was resurrected. In researching the scriptures one will find that the whole concept of Jesus dying on a Friday and being resurrected on Sunday is contrary to the bible itself. In other words, this tradition directly contradicts the word of God. This lesson will examine the history of Easter a little, and then investigate the Bible concerning the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Easter Created By Man

Before we get into the death and resurrection of Jesus we need to address history of Easter itself. We will also take a look at the symbols of Easter: rabbits and eggs. What does rabbits and eggs have to do with the birth of Jesus? Furthermore, when did rabbits start laying eggs? Additionally, we will look at the history of Easter sunrise service, lilies, candles, and hot crossed buns. If you research Easter in most encyclopedias, you will see that Easter has many customs and legends that are pagan in origin and have absolutely nothing to do with Christianity.

Easter was named after Eostre (sometimes spelled Eastre), the great Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring, fertility, and new life. Similar Teutonic dawn goddesses of fertility were known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos. Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre." Thus it is easy to see how "Eastre time" became "Easter time".
Easter Sunday falls on the first Sunday after the first full moon after March 20th, the nominal date of the Vernal (sometimes referred to as spring) Equinox. This is the day (or period of days) in spring when the days and nights are of approximately equal length. This is a time of celebrating new life, the resurrection of nature from the dead, and it has typically featured fertility rites, merrymaking, and usually centers on orgiastic sexual activities. In ancient times there were the sacrificing of virgins, the worship of fertility gods and goddesses.

The Easter sunrise service, that is practiced in many Christian churches, can be traced back to the ancient pagan custom of welcoming the sun god at the vernal equinox - when daytime is about to exceed the length of the nighttime. It was a time to celebrate the return of life and reproduction to animal and plant life as well. Worship of the sun god at sunrise is the religious ritual condemned by the Lord as recorded in Ezekiel 8:15-18.

Ezekiel 8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

Ezekiel 8:15-18 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these. And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east. Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose. Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.

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There are many Christian organizations and some Christian institutions

Bro.T said:

It has been taught that Jesus died on Good Friday and rose early Sunday morning. As a result of this teaching, man instituted the holiday called Easter. On Easter Sunday you have Christians, world wide paying tribute to a day, in which they believe Jesus, was resurrected. In researching the scriptures one will find that the whole concept of Jesus dying on a Friday and being resurrected on Sunday is contrary to the bible itself. In other words, this tradition directly contradicts the word of God. This lesson will examine the history of Easter a little, and then investigate the Bible concerning the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Easter Created By Man

Before we get into the death and resurrection of Jesus we need to address history of Easter itself. We will also take a look at the symbols of Easter: rabbits and eggs. What does rabbits and eggs have to do with the birth of Jesus? Furthermore, when did rabbits start laying eggs? Additionally, we will look at the history of Easter sunrise service, lilies, candles, and hot crossed buns. If you research Easter in most encyclopedias, you will see that Easter has many customs and legends that are pagan in origin and have absolutely nothing to do with Christianity.

Easter was named after Eostre (sometimes spelled Eastre), the great Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring, fertility, and new life. Similar Teutonic dawn goddesses of fertility were known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos. Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre." Thus it is easy to see how "Eastre time" became "Easter time".
Easter Sunday falls on the first Sunday after the first full moon after March 20th, the nominal date of the Vernal (sometimes referred to as spring) Equinox. This is the day (or period of days) in spring when the days and nights are of approximately equal length. This is a time of celebrating new life, the resurrection of nature from the dead, and it has typically featured fertility rites, merrymaking, and usually centers on orgiastic sexual activities. In ancient times there were the sacrificing of virgins, the worship of fertility gods and goddesses.

The Easter sunrise service, that is practiced in many Christian churches, can be traced back to the ancient pagan custom of welcoming the sun god at the vernal equinox - when daytime is about to exceed the length of the nighttime. It was a time to celebrate the return of life and reproduction to animal and plant life as well. Worship of the sun god at sunrise is the religious ritual condemned by the Lord as recorded in Ezekiel 8:15-18.

Ezekiel 8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

Ezekiel 8:15-18 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these. And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east. Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose. Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.

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I agree ...... Many Christian organizations / institutions have come to the conclusion, after doing their research of scripture and the ways of the ancient Hebrews, Jesus rose on the 7th Day the Sabbath.

It seems the Hebrew days began at 6 p.m. and ended 24 hours later at 6 p.m. unlike the now used Roman's - which begins at 12 a.m.

The Hebrews had several different sabbath celebrations, besides the 7th Day Sabbath. One must know which Sabbath was being referred to when the word Sabbath is used.

Organization such as The Trumpet _ Beyond Today _ Tomorrow's World _Church of The Great God _ The Israel of God _ Biblical Archaeology are some that gives their reasonings in their articles.

It is theorized and you have stated in your comments about Easter - when Constantine became a Christian he and the early Roman church leaders changed the old Roman pagan gods celebration did on the first day, to a Christian celebration of the Resurrection.

Whatever happened, from Friday night on the Roman Calendar to before day Sunday morning is not three days and three nights. Plus if Christ rose on the 7th Day Sabbath -that goes back to Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. And I have to add in The Lost Gospel According to Peter / The Last Gospel of Peter - which is only one incomplete chapter verse 12 says "and at dawn upon the Lord's Day Mary Magdalene, a disciple of the Lord, fearing because of the Jews, since they were burning with wrath, had not done at the Lord's sepulchre the things which women are wont to do for those that die and for those that are beloved by them - she took her friends with her and came to the sepulchre where he was laid. I asked the question what and when is the Lord Day? This gospel was supposedly discovered it 1886, in the Valley of the upper Nile called Akhmim, in a monk's grave. I wonder where is it now?

Bro.T said:

So you saying we should move the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week from Moses time, to those verses you post by Paul in his time of teaching? Is that what you are saying? Because Paul actually kept the sabbath day in his time and taught the Gentiles to do the same.

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Sabbath is the sabbath, Sunday is a different day. what's your point? the early biblical church valued worship on Sunday without dispute but this in no way attacks the Sabbath. The bible has never mandated worship to be only held on one day of the week regardless of which day you think that is.

Sheila Davis said:

Jesus rose on the 7th Day the Sabbath.

It seems the Hebrew days began at 6 p.m. and ended 24 hours later at 6 p.m. unlike the now used Roman's - which begins at 12 a.m.

The Hebrews had several different sabbath celebrations, besides the 7th Day Sabbath. One must know which Sabbath was being referred to when the word Sabbath is used.

Organization such as The Trumpet _ Beyond Today _ Tomorrow's World _Church of The Great God _ The Israel of God _ Biblical Archaeology are some that gives their reasonings in their articles.

It is theorized and you have stated in your comments about Easter - when Constantine became a Christian he and the early Roman church leaders changed the old Roman pagan gods celebration did on the first day, to a Christian celebration of the Resurrection.

Whatever happened, from Friday night on the Roman Calendar to before day Sunday morning is not three days and three nights. Plus if Christ rose on the 7th Day Sabbath -that goes back to Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. And I have to add in The Lost Gospel According to Peter / The Last Gospel of Peter - which is only one incomplete chapter verse 12 says "and at dawn upon the Lord's Day Mary Magdalene, a disciple of the Lord, fearing because of the Jews, since they were burning with wrath, had not done at the Lord's sepulchre the things which women are wont to do for those that die and for those that are beloved by them - she took her friends with her and came to the sepulchre where he was laid. I asked the question what and when is the Lord Day? This gospel was supposedly discovered it 1886, in the Valley of the upper Nile called Akhmim, in a monk's grave. I wonder where is it now?

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No He did not. He rose on the 1st day of the week, after sunset, not on Shabbat. If it was found in a Monk's grave then he understood the Lord's day as being that 1st day of the week.

You're counting nights and days in accordance with contemporary reasoning and not with knowledge of how nights and days are counted in the Bible.

Bro.T said:

Let's continue in Mark (15:42) And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, (43) Joseph of Aarimathaea, an honourable counseller, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.

The above scriptures are where the problem lied with the early church trying to interpret the events of the bible. One should take note, that what the majority of modern day Christians practice or follow come directly from the Roman Catholic Church. You had non spiritual people trying to decipher events that were spiritual. Since the scriptures stated, that the preparation day, was the day before the Sabbath, they automatically assumed this event took place on a Friday, because they knew the Lord's Sabbath was from Friday evening to Saturday evening.

That is how they came up with the concept that Jesus died on Friday and He rose early Sunday morning. What they failed to take into account were the Lord's Holy Days or as they are also called High Sabbaths. There are seven yearly Sabbaths, and they, with the exception of Pentecost, can fall on any day of the week. At the beginning of this lesson, it was explained in Leviticus (23:4) that the Passover which is the 14th of the month, is the day before the feast of Unleavened Bread, which is a Holy Day or A High Sabbath. The Passover is sometimes referred as the preparation day because they used this day to prepare for the feast. The Feast of Unleavened Bread is the Sabbath which was being refereed to in Mark 15:42) when it was stated that Joseph craved the body of Jesus. Jesus had been crucified on the Passover and the next day was the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Jesus foretold when His death would occur.

(Matthew 26:1) And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples, (2) Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Now remember God's days start at evening and end the next evening. Keep that in mind as you view the next set of scriptures. Jesus had been betrayed by Judas the evening of the Passover. John 13 tells how Jesus and His disciples, that evening, were sharing the Passover meal. John (18:3) shows that same evening; Jesus was betrayed and taken away. It was still nighttime when they took Jesus, because the men that came and took and bound Him had lanterns and torches.

Jesus was crucified the next day but it was still the Passover. Remember God's days run from sundown to sundown. Jesus had been taken into custody the night of the Passover and the next morning which is the day of the Passover, He was condemned and crucified.

The following verses deomonstrate how Pilate was willing to release Jesus the morning after he had been taken in to custody. It was still the Passover. We all know the Jews refused and Jesus was crucified.

(John 18:39) But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews? (40) Then cried they all again, saying, Not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber.

Remember Mark (15:42) Joseph craved the body of Jesus the evening of the Passover. Now one can see that this was towards the end of the Passover.
3 Days And 3 Nights

The scriptures explain how Jesus was in the earth 3 days and 3 nights just as He had foretold.
How It Really Happened

3 Days And 3 Nights
SU M T W TH F S
Days 1 1 1
Nights 1 1 1


In looking at the previous scriptures one should now have a better understanding, as to what took place. Remember Mary did not come to the Grave site until the first day of the week which is Sunday. (John 20:1) "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulcher", And it was early in the morning and it was still dark. But Jesus had already risen. That's because Jesus went into His grave right before the end of the Passover or Wed. evening. The passing of the Passover brought in the Feast of the Unleavened Bread. So Jesus would Have been in the Grave Wednesday night, Thursday daytime and Thursday night, Friday daytime, Friday night, Saturday daytime and Jesus rose right before the sun went down on Saturday. Hence one has the 3 days and 3 nights which Jesus prophesied.

His death Wednesday night is consistent with the comment of the prophet Daniel, stating the Messiah would be cut off (killed) in the midst of the week.
Daniel 9:26-27 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (Wednesday is the middle of the week) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Remember, Jesus is the sacrificial Passover Lamb).

Click to expand...

This pattern of numbers captures the heart beat of creation

5 have passed one is now one is yet to come when he does he will stay a short time for he is also the eighth and of the seven and he goes to his destruction. Convert that to days and the 7th day is also the eighth which is the first day of the week. The eighth is one of the 7. The eighth day is the eternal day and one of the 7. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath so it conforms to His life. Just as we know this creation goes to its destruction to become the New Heaven and New Earth, so it is with the 7th day rest. Jesus was at rest in the tomb on the seventh day and rose on the 1st day of the week. The eighth day the eternal day one of the seven.