The Days Being Shortened

Achilles6129 said:

We're just going to have to disagree on this then. I already presented my case on the first part of the passage several times.

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There isn't anything to even disagree on. Scripture is clear, and we don't go by half verses when we interpret.

Shalom, yeshuasavedme.

yeshuasavedme said:

Day -measured time- and night -measured time- is cut off/shortened/mutilated -is no more- for one third of its former measure.

If your arm is 30 inches long and gets cut off/mutilated/diminished/shortened for one third of its length, then your arm is 20 inches long thereafter.
The night/darkness and day/light were made before the sun, moon, and stars, in Genesis 1. The length of the night/darkness and light/day shining on earth was 24 hours -an evening and a morning- from the beginning [Genesis 1]. The sun, moon, and stars were not the darkness or the light, and the sun and moon were set in the heavens on day 4 of creation week to "rule/govern" the light by day and by night. The stars tell the seasons, and in the tribulation, the seasons will be backwards when the earth is turned upside down, moved out of her place, and staggars as a drunken man and jumps about as a hunted roe. At that time, the sun will be smitten and shine brighter than normal, and so will the moon, burning all that lives on earth with great heat.
Therefore, during the tribulation: the days/lighttime and nights/darkness times will be cut off/diminished/mutilated/shortened, to one third of their "shining", so that all living things on earth will not perish -esp for the elect's sake [for Israel's sake, cause the Church is gone]. Since the days are not shining, then the sun and moon cannot govern them for a full 24 hours -18 parts, as Enoch states- but only for 16 hours -12 parts, as Enoch teaches us.

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Sorry, but this is not just my opinion:

Rev. 8:12
12 Kai ho tetartos aggelos esalpisen; kai epleegee to triton tou heeliou kai to triton tees seleenees kai to triton toon asteroon, hina skotisthee to trition autoon kai hee heemera mee fanee to triton autees kai hee nux homoioos.
PC Study Bible V5 Interlinear Bible

12 Kai = 12 And
ho = the
tetartos = fourth
aggelos = messenger
esalpisen: = sounded:
kai = and
epleegee = was-pounded
to = the
triton = third
tou = of-the
heeliou = sun
kai = and
to = the
triton = third
tees = of-the
seleenees = moon
kai = and
to = the
triton = third
toon = of-the
asteroon, = stars,
hina = so-that
skotisthee = was-darkened
to = the
trition = third
autoon = of-them
kai = and
hee = the
heemera = day
mee = not
fanee = shone
to = the
triton = third
autees = of-it
kai = and
hee = the
nux = night
homoioos. = likewise.

12 And the fourth messenger sounded: and was-pounded the third of-the sun and the third of-the moon and the third of-the stars, so-that was-darkened the third of-them and the day not shone the third of-it and the night likewise.

It doesn't say that the thirds go away or are "cut off," like 10 inches of arm. It says they are DARKENED, but they are STILL THERE! This verse doesn't say that the day was shortened by that amount of time.

In the Messiah's love,
Roy

Retrobyter said:

Shalom, yeshuasavedme.



Sorry, but this is not just my opinion:
Roy

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Jesus said it. The days are mutilated/shortened -by one third of their total parts.
Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened/κολοβόω koloboō those days/ἡμέρα hēmera, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened/κολοβόω koloboō the days/ἡμέρα hēmera.
κολοβόω koloboō 1) to mutilate

Shalom, yeshuasavedme.

yeshuasavedme said:

Jesus said it. The days are mutilated/shortened -by one third of their total parts.
And except that the Lord had shortened/κολοβόω koloboō those days/ἡμέρα hēmera, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened/κολοβόω koloboō the days/ἡμέρα hēmera.
κολοβόω koloboō 1) to mutilate

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Have you ever considered that He wasn't talking about shortening each day but shortening the GROUP of days? It would be MUCH simpler to shorten the NUMBER of days in the group rather than to shorten a day from 24 hours to 16 hours.

The earth's circumference at the equator is 24,902 miles. To travel that distance in 24 hours, the earth has to spin with a surface speed at the equator of 24,902/24 = 1,037.6 mph. To travel the same distance in 16 hours would require the earth to spin with a surface speed at the equator of 24,902/16 = 1,556.4 mph! That's quite a speed-up! The inertia involved in speeding up the rotation of the earth would literally throw things around!

Furthermore, you have no real link between the two verses suggesting that they are talking about the same event!

Be careful making unsubstantiated claims.

In the Messiah's love,
Roy

Retrobyter said:

Shalom, yeshuasavedme.



Have you ever considered that He wasn't talking about shortening each day but shortening the GROUP of days? It would be MUCH simpler to shorten the NUMBER of days in the group rather than to shorten a day from 24 hours to 16 hours.

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God numbered the days and added them up for you in His Word. He didn't change His mind on the number of days. They are exact. If you read this thread from the beginning someone else -or a couple of folk- has already dealt with that Scripturally.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7493818/

Retrobyter said:

... the earth has to spin with a surface speed at the equator of 24,902/24 = 1,037.6 mph. To travel the same distance in 16 hours would require the earth to spin with a surface speed at the equator of 24,902/16 = 1,556.4 mph! That's quite a speed-up! The inertia involved in speeding up the rotation of the earth would literally throw things around!

Furthermore, you have no real link between the two verses suggesting that they are talking about the same event!

Be careful making unsubstantiated claims.

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Would you please substantiate your assumptions above with Scripture? -you can't, and surely you "know" that; but have not even had your eyes opened to understand it -and the implications of making claims that are not to be found in the Word anywhere, and which are refuted from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22.

In the Word, the earth does not revolve, rotate/spin or tilt, and is not a "planet" =wanderer. In the Word, the earth is fixed in place and the heavens revolve around the earth once each day, with the sun, moon, and stars in the heavens following their own peculiar paths, as ordained from the beginning.
You might like to read the thread I started that deals with the creation from Genesis 1, taking God's own Word exactly as He had Moses write it for us to read - http://www.christianforums.com/t7493818/ -and then you might benefit from reading the revelation He gave Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam, on the geo-centric creation. The Book of Enoch, Translated by Robert H. Charles, 1912 : -from chapter 33, the paths of the heavenly bodies is revealed.

Then after that, you might like to read the book "Galileo Was Wrong, the Church Was Right" The Scientific Case for Geocentrism, by Dr. Robert Sungenis and Dr. Robert Bennett. 650 pgs." by Robert Sungenies geocentrism.com GWW

Shalom, yeshuasavedme.

yeshuasavedme said:

God numbered the days and added them up for you in His Word. He didn't change His mind on the number of days. They are exact. If you read this thread from the beginning someone else -or a couple of folk- has already dealt with that Scripturally.



Would you please substantiate your assumptions above with Scripture? -you can't, and surely you "know" that; but have not even had your eyes opened to understand it -and the implications of making claims that are not to be found in the Word anywhere, and which are refuted from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22.

In the Word, the earth does not revolve, rotate/spin or tilt, and is not a "planet" =wanderer. In the Word, the earth is fixed in place and the heavens revolve around the earth once each day, with the sun, moon, and stars in the heavens following their own peculiar paths, as ordained from the beginning.
You might like to read the thread I started that deals with the creation from Genesis 1, taking God's own Word exactly as He had Moses write it for us to read -and then you might benefit from reading the revelation He gave Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam, on the geo-centric creation. : -from chapter 33, the paths of the heavenly bodies is revealed.

Then after that, you might like to read the book "Galileo Was Wrong, the Church Was Right" The Scientific Case for Geocentrism, by Dr. Robert Sungenis and Dr. Robert Bennett. 650 pgs." by Robert Sungenies

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You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding! You can't be serious about this! If you truly believe in a geocentric system, then we have no basis for meaningful conversation! Just tell me it was a weak attempt at a last-ditch effort to save your argument from going up in flames!

Have you never read...

Job 38:12-14
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
KJV

or

Job 26:7
7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
KJV

Galileo aside, what about that wonderful Renaissance man, closer to our time, Sir Isaac Newton, a wonderful Christian man who gave God all the glory for the things he discovered?! He gave us a very descriptive relationship between objects of various mass and distance and gave us the mathematics of gravitational theory as well as valuable laws of gravitation! It's BASED on what we witness in the heavens! How do you explain retrograde motion of the planets? How do you explain the difference between the paths of Mercury and Venus compared to the rest of the planets? HE did! It all falls into place when one uses a solarcentric model for the planetary system!

He even said, "Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who sets the planets in motion."

He also said, ...

"Trials are medicines which our gracious and wise Physician prescribes because we need them; and he proportions the frequency and weight of them to what the case requires. Let us trust his skill and thank him for his prescription."

"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."

"Live your life as an Exclamation rather than an Explanation."

"This most beautiful system [The Universe] could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being."

"To explain all nature is too difficult a task for any one man or even for any one age. Tis much better to do a little with certainty & leave the rest for others that come after than to explain all things by conjecture without making sure of any thing."

and...

"A man may imagine things that are false, but he can only understand things that are true."

Have you EVER studied astronomy or physics? If not, you NEED to!

I'll look at the sources, but I'll also give you an honest, blunt, critical review of those sources.

In the Messiah's love,
Roy

Retrobyter said:

Shalom, yeshuasavedme.



You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding! You can't be serious about this! If you truly believe in a geocentric system, then we have no basis for meaningful conversation!
Roy

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Genesis 1:
Earth created in darkness as a globe of water of immense size suspended within the magnetic forces that not only support it, but support the [later stretched out[ heavens; which heavens/shamayim were stretched out from the created earth between the mayim/ waters divided/cut in half, on day 2 of 6 evenings and mornings of the creation week.

Isa 42:5 ¶ Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: [BTW: the ends of the earth are the extremes of it, as the extremes of heaven are the "ends" of heaven.]

How do you get anything out of that other than what God said, unless you believe fallible men who were not there and who cannot measure even the "breath/Rahab -stretched out expanse/firmament/heavens- of the earth?

Job 38:18 Hast thou perceived the breadth/רחב rachab of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
רחב rachab 1) breadth, broad or wide expanse


The broad expanse -heaven- of earth is where Mount Eden, the City of God/Paradise, is, and where Adam got cast down from at the fall, and where the saints go to, at death, and where they will dwell in their bodies of regeneration after the first resurrection is completed.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city [Mount Eden/Mount Zion above]: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.