The Days Being Shortened

Achilles6129 said:

"And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise." Rev. 8:12

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The Greek inter linear directly translates ''no may be appearing'' for ''the day shone not''. It wouldn't suggest a shortening of the literal day/night, as it seems to refer to the actual appearance of the sun/moon/stars.

Achilles6129 said:

However, the question is, how is the day shortened to 16 hours? The only way this would be possible is for the earth's rotation to be sped up, which would require simply a tremendous amount of force. It is impossible that an asteroid could "hit" the earth and speed up it's rotation, b/c in order to speed up the earth's rotation by 8 hours the asteroid would impact the planet at such an incredible velocity that it would vaporize everything.

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Achilles6129 said:

I think that the only real way to speed up the earth’s rotation without destroying it entirely is to apply some sort of gravitational force from outside the earth which would speed up its rotation. However, in order for that to happen a pretty large planet like Jupiter would be needed. Other than that, I really don’t know how the earth’s rotation could possibly be sped up in order to make a day 16 hours, but it is one of the things that is going to happen in Revelation.

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The only thing that could make this possible is God's super natural intervention, and even at that shortening the day by a few hours would require speeding up Earth's rotation by a considerable amount. This would result in mostly everything on the face of the Earth shooting off its surface at a tangential trajectory into space. Unless He'd chose to do it gradually. I still hold to this not being what the passage implied, though. It is going to be a plague of darkness, that much is clear.

Mr.Waffles said:

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The Greek inter linear directly translates ''no may be appearing'' for ''the day shone not''. It wouldn't suggest a shortening of the literal day/night, as it seems to refer to the actual appearance of the sun/moon/stars.



The only thing that could make this possible is God's super natural intervention, and even at that shortening the day by a few hours would require speeding up Earth's rotation by a considerable amount. This would result in mostly everything on the face of the Earth shooting off its surface at a tangential trajectory into space. Unless He'd chose to do it gradually. I still hold to this not being what the passage implied, though. It is going to be a plague of darkness, that much is clear.

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The Greek is to cut off/mutilate, in Matthew 24:22. The days and the nights do not shine for one third of their parts [18 parts to a day and night, total, in Enoch].
According to Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam, the paths of the sun, moon, and stars in the heavens, around the earth, cause the days and nights to "shine" in parts diminishing and increasing in light and darkness, but always 18 total parts in one day, as the sun and moon follow their paths in the heavens, year by year.

The cutting off by mutilation of the third part of the night and the third part of the day means exactly that.
koloboō 1) to mutilate

The Bible specifically states that the sun,moon, and stars measure time, days, years, and that they have ordained orbits in the heavens, around the earth, but that the earth does not move, is not a planet [wanderer], is fixed in place, and was/is, itself, that [beginning/central] point in creation from which the heavens themselves were stretched out, between the divided/cut in two waters, of the created globe, on day 2 of creation week. Half the waters are above the stretched out heavens, and in the heavens, the created sun and moon were set in their orbits, on day 4, as the stars were also.

yeshuasavedme said:

The Greek is to cut off/mutilate, in Matthew 24:22. The days and the nights do not shine for one third of their parts [18 parts to a day and night, total, in Enoch].
According to Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam, the paths of the sun, moon, and stars in the heavens, around the earth, cause the days and nights to "shine" in parts diminishing and increasing in light and darkness, but always 18 total parts in one day, as the sun and moon follow their paths in the heavens, year by year.

The cutting off by mutilation of the third part of the night and the third part of the day means exactly that.
koloboō 1) to mutilate

The Bible specifically states that the sun,moon, and stars measure time, days, years, and that they have ordained orbits in the heavens, around the earth, but that the earth does not move, is not a planet [wanderer], is fixed in place, and was/is, itself, that [beginning/central] point in creation from which the heavens themselves were stretched out, between the divided/cut in two waters, of the created globe, on day 2 of creation week. Half the waters are above the stretched out heavens, and in the heavens, the created sun and moon were set in their orbits, on day 4, as the stars were also.

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Problem - you're interpreting a verse according to another verse which is never a good thing to do, provided you understand what proper exegesis is. From verse 29, Matthew 24, Greek reads ''the sun shall be being-darkened, and the moon not shall be giving the beam of her''. Only underlines the ''appearance'' of these celestial bodies, nothing to do with their ordinances. ''Mutilate'' means a removal, if someone were to lose an arm they would simply be using one less arm...in the same manner the sun being mutliated by one third of ''its'' parts means it will simply give 1/3 less light. Very clear and very obvious.

Verse 22 -> the word is ''lopped'' and better translates to ''discounted''. Example: the days of Noah --> anytime this kind of phrase is used, it is not pertaining to the literal everyday (in this example, Noah's days), it's a reference to that particular period of time as a whole. Jesus clearly meant to say that tribulation is going to occur but is going to be metered, in that this period in Earth's history is going to be shortened lest nothing survives.

Achilles6129 said:

It says for the night likewise. The day shone not for the third part of it, and the night likewise. The third part of a day is 4 hours, and the third part of the night is 4 hours. Therefore, the day shone not for four hours and the night shone not (not appearing) for four hours. This actually supports exactly what I am saying - in the tribulation (at some point) we have a 16 hour day.



I'm quite certain that God can find a way to shorten the day by 8 hours with everything surviving if he wishes. I was simply speculating on a possible cause. The book of Revelation is clear that the plagues are caused by God and are therefore of supernatural origin.

In addition, in my opinion it seems that the human race actually knows that God is causing these plagues. These verses would seem to indicate this:

"8And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.

9And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 11And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds." Rev. 16:8-11





"22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Mt. 24:22

Shortened, #2856, koloboo, to mutilate, in NT: to shorten, abridge, curtail.



Problem with this is the tribulation is for a very real, set time and is not at all "shortened" by any stretch of the imagination. The times have already been set forth and prophesied and thus cannot be altered:

"5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months." Rev. 13:5

The AC's reign is for 42 months. That is a set time period and cannot possibly be shortened or altered without altering prophecy itself, which by definition cannot be altered. The end of the GT is the return of Christ, who destroys the AC in Armageddon at the end of 42 months.

The key with the shortening of the days is the phrase "the day shone not for the third part of it, and the night likewise." As you pointed out, this actually means that the day "did not appear" for the third part of it, and the night "likewise." So neither the day nor the night will appear for the third part of it, which indicates a literal shortening of the 24-hour day.

Let's look at the verse a little more deeply:

"12And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a thirdpart of it, and the night likewise." Rev. 8:12

Shone, #5316, phaino,
1) to bring forth into the light, cause to shine, shed light
2) shine
a) to shine, be bright or resplendent
b) to become evident, to be brought forth into the light, come to view, appear
1) of growing vegetation, to come to light
2) to appear, be seen
3) exposed to view
c) to meet the eyes, strike the sight, become clear or manifest
1) to be seen, appear
d) to appear to the mind, seem to one's judgment or opinion

Now, if we had a 16 hour day, an acceptable description of this would be that 1/3 of the sun, moon, and stars were smitten and darkened. The word for darkened is #4654, skotizo, and means:

1) to cover with darkness, to darken
2) to be covered with darkness, be darkened
a) of heavenly bodies as deprived of light
b) metaph.
1) of the eyes
2) of the understanding
3) of the mind

In other words, 1/3 of the sun, moon, and stars being smitten = the sun, moon, and stars not shining for 1/3 of their time. This follows with a description of just that - the day shone not (appeared not) for the third part of it, and the night likewise. This would then reference back to Christ's discouse in Mt. 24:22, where he speaks of the days of the tribulation being shortened. We have a problem, since there cannot be a shortening of the tribulation since it is for a set time (42 months, namely), but there is no problem if Christ is referring to the literal days being shortened.

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Plain and simple...

''The fourth angel sounded, and a third of the sun and a third of the moon and a third of the stars were struck, so that a third of them would be darkened and the day would not shine for a third of it, and the night in the same way.''

The celestial bodies are struck and darkened. Like I said, the passages themselves point to the appearance (i.e. luminosity) of the sun/moon/stars. There is no scriptural basis to assume their ordinances are disturbed and that somehow the literal day length is affected.

This theory also falls apart because it assumes shortened days, in effect 42 months will not last 42 months, as will all the other time frames mentionned in the end time prophecy. You can assume Revelations has already taken this into account, but at the same time you could also assume it has taken the discounting of entire days into account. In either case, this does not stand to prove any one theory. There shouldn't even be theories, just scripture.

To expand on the ''darkened'' part, it only makes sense. Darkened literally means darkened, as one third of the sun will not give its light. That means for the time of day we are faced to THAT part, we will not be receiving its light. Pretty simple right?

It wasn't the day/night that did not appear for a thirdpart of it - the day shone not for a thirdpart of it, likewise the night.

Achilles6129 said:

It says for the night likewise. The day shone not for the third part of it, and the night likewise. The third part of a day is 4 hours, and the third part of the night is 4 hours. Therefore, the day shone not for four hours and the night shone not (not appearing) for four hours. This actually supports exactly what I am saying - in the tribulation (at some point) we have a 16 hour day.

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You are biblically correct except that the third part of the day and the third part of the night which do not shine will be a third part of their "shining" in all the seasons of the year, which change seasonally except on the equator.
The result is still a 16 hour day, but in all the latitudes of earth the hours of shining day and the hours of shining night will be cut off in all the seasons for one third part of them.
When the day shines for its smallest part, and the night equally at the same time shines for its longest part in the seasons of the year, the hours of day light/shining and the hours of the night/shining will be each cut off for a third part.
In Enoch 72, the longest day of the year [happens twice in the year, once in each hemisphere] the shining of the day has twice the parts of the shining of the night.
Likewise, the shortest day of the year [happens twice, once each in north and south hemispheres] has the opposite shining of the parts, with the night double in measured parts of its shining to those of the day.
So in that shortening of the days in the tribulation period, a third of the shining day changes "hour numbers of shining" daily. Likewise, the number of hours of the shining of the night change nightly.
None of the shining of the day or night has to do with the earth, but with the paths of the heavenly hosts which were set in the stretched out heavens on day 4 to measure time and sign the seasons, on earth.
In that day, the earth will be turned upside down, moved out of its fixed place, stagger like a drunken man, jump about as a hunted roe, and the seasons will be backwards, with the fruits appearing out of their season on the earth; meantime, the heavenly hosts measure the day and the night, and their shining is cut off for one third of their ordained measures, day by day.

Enoch 72

12And then the day becomes longer by two parts and amounts to eleven parts, and the night becomes shorter and amounts to seven parts.
13And it returns to the east and enters into the sixth portal, and rises and sets in the sixth portal one-and-thirty mornings on account of its sign.
14On that day the day becomes longer than the night, and the day becomes double the night, and the day becomes twelve parts, and the night is shortened and becomes six parts.
15And the sun mounts up to make the day shorter and the night longer, and the sun returns to the east and enters into the sixth portal, and rises from it and sets thirty mornings.
16And when thirty mornings are accomplished, the day decreases by exactly one part, and becomes eleven parts, and the night seven. 17And the sun goes forth from that sixth portal in the west, and goes to the east and rises in the fifth portal for thirty mornings, and sets in the west again in the fifth western portal.
18On that day the day decreases by two parts, and amounts to ten parts and the night to eight parts.
19And the sun goes forth from that fifth portal and sets in the fifth portal of the west, and rises in the fourth portal for one-and-thirty mornings on account of its sign, and sets in the west.
20On that day the day is equalized with the night, and becomes of equal length, and the night amounts to nine parts and the day to nine parts.
21And the sun rises from that portal and sets in the west, and returns to the east and rises thirty mornings in the third portal and sets in the west in the third portal.
22And on that day the night becomes longer than the day, and night becomes longer than night, and day shorter than day till the thirtieth morning, and the night amounts exactly to ten parts and the day to eight parts.
23And the sun rises from that third portal and sets in the third portal in the west and returns to the east, and for thirty mornings rises in the second portal in the east, and in like manner sets in the second portal in the west of the heaven.
24And on that day the night amounts to eleven parts and the day to seven parts.
25And the sun rises on that day from that second portal and sets in the west in the second portal, and returns to the east into the first portal for one-and-thirty mornings, and sets in the first portal in the west of the heaven.
26And on that day the night becomes longer and amounts to the double of the day: and the night amounts exactly to twelve parts and the day to six.
27And the sun has therewith traversed the divisions of his orbit and turns again on those divisions of his orbit, and enters that portal thirty mornings and sets also in the west opposite to it.
28And on that night has the night decreased in length by a ninth part, and the night has become eleven parts and the day seven parts.
29And the sun has returned and entered into the second portal in the east, and returns on those his divisions of his orbit for thirty mornings, rising and setting.
30And on that day the night decreases in length, and the night amounts to ten parts and the day to eight.
31And on that day the sun rises from that portal, and sets in the west, and returns to the east, and rises in the third portal for one-and-thirty mornings, and sets in the west of the heaven.
32On that day the night decreases and amounts to nine parts, and the day to nine parts, and the night is equal to the day and the year is exactly as to its days three hundred and sixty-four.
33And the length of the day and of the night, and the shortness of the day and of the night arise- through the course of the sun these distinctions are made.
34So it comes that its course becomes daily longer, and its course nightly shorter.
35And this is the law and the course of the sun, and his return as often as he returns sixty times and rises, that is the great luminary which is named the sun, for ever and ever.
36And that which thus rises is the great luminary, and is so named according to its appearance, according as the Lord commanded. 37As he rises, so he sets and decreases not, and rests not, but runs day and night, and his light is sevenfold brighter than that of the moon; but as regards size they are both equal.

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Mr.Waffles said:

It wasn't the day/night that did not appear for a thirdpart of it - the day shone not for a thirdpart of it, likewise the night.

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Not shining means cut off, not there for the shining for one third of their parts in a measured day of light and darkness.
It is the firmament that shines, and the sun rules/governs the shining light of the firmament by day, and the moon by night.
Light was called into being on day 1, before there ever was a stretched out heaven/firmament or the hosts of the heavens made and set in them to govern the day and night.


Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine/זהר zahar as the brightness/זהר zohar of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
The shining of the firmament ceases for a third of their parts in the tribulation, so the sun cannot govern it in the "cut off/mutilated" days, when the days and nights are shortened by one third of their parts

yeshuasavedme said:

Not shining means cut off, not there for the shining for one third of their parts in a measured day of light and darkness.

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Not shining means not shining, that is the extent of the passage.
Christ's own words, ''But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT''

Parts of the day are clearly not disappearing.

Notice how Rev.8:12 and Matthew 24:22 have been merged. Interpretation is no longer explicit, you have now added additional meaning to Rev.8:12, this is called eisegesis and it makes messes of Biblical interpretation.

Mr.Waffles said:

Not shining means not shining, that is the extent of the passage.
Christ's own words, ''But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT''

Parts of the day are clearly not disappearing.
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What does the "immediately after the tribulation of those days" have to do with the days being mutilated/cut off during the tribulation so that all flesh will not perish? -no connection can be made to the two, but there is the connection to the passages in Enoch, Isaiah, and Rev about those days -during the tribulation- being cut off and the seasons backwards and the sun shining more brightly and smiting the earth with great heat, and so on and so forth.

PS: the day composing of darkness/evening and light/day came before the sun, moon, and stars, in Genesis, so the days/light being cut off by one third part and the darkness/evening/night being cut off by one third does not originate with the sun or moon or stars.
you ignore the points I have made about the creation from Genesis 1, and the application of what God says there to what is being discussed here.

Plainly, you want the numbers of days to disappear which are ordained by the Word of God and cannot change, and ignore the fact of the shortened -by mutilation/cutting off of them- of the parts of the days and the nights themselves, as the Word of God plainly states and corroborates in other passages of Scripture.
But now I will really depart this conversation, as I have given enough info on what one can look for to prove all things in the Word, for themselves, if they are interested...

yeshuasavedme said:

What does the "immediately after the tribulation of those days" have to do with the days being mutilated/cut off during the tribulation so that all flesh will not perish?? -no connection can be made to the two,

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There is no need for connection, because Christ meant what he meant, in that the events he entailed would simply follow immediately after. You are taking verse 22 and now reinserting it with verse 29, bad.

yeshuasavedme said:

but there is the connection to the passages in Enoch, Isaiah, and Rev about those days -during the tribulation- being cut off and the seasons backwards and the sun shining more brightly and smiting the earth with great heat, and so on and so forth.

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Enoch is not considered canon for a reason, Rev. only refutes such an idea as clearly it speaks of the appearance of the heavenly bodies, not their ordinances, and where in Daniel is this even mentionned?

yeshuasavedme said:

PS: the day composing of darkness/evening and light/day came before the sun, moon, and stars, in Genesis, so the days/light being cut off by one third part and the darkness/evening/night being cut off by one third does not originate with the sun or moon or stars.

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Only the Revelation passages are about the sun, moon and stars directly. As if it couldn't be more obvious that you are not handling this correctly.

yeshuasavedme said:

you ignore the points I have made about the creation from Genesis 1, and the application of what God says there to what is being discussed here.

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You're just moving the goalposts, begging definitions according to Genesis rather than proving exclusively how scripture means to say the literal days are going to be shortened. What scripture does prove explicitly (according to Revelations) is that the celestial bodies are going to be struck and darkened. The end result is going to be due to this fact, nowhere is the actual shortening of the day implied whatsoever, there is no proof. I reiterate, the Revelation passages are about the sun, moon and stars directly.

yeshuasavedme said:

Plainly, you want the numbers of days to disappear which are ordained by the Word of God and cannot change,

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The fact that God has ordained these days is in no way required to conflict with what Christ has said. You are not the one sovereignly orchestrating these events of human history.

yeshuasavedme said:

and ignore the fact of the shortened -by mutilation/cutting off of them- of the parts of the days and the nights themselves, as the Word of God plainly states and corroborates in other passages of Scripture.

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Only this is not something plainly stated at all. And there are no such verses corroborating such a thing. The one and only verse that can possibly imply this is Matthew 24:22, but such a notion is quickly disproven with what Revelations itself has to say about these events. Simple cause and effect ----> Nothing is revealed as to the ordinances being affected (as the object of the passages are the literal celestial bodies), what is revealed is that these celestial bodies are struck and darkened, and according to explicit (obvious) interpretation (in accordance with the rest of the verse) luminosity of these bodies is reduced. Whatever is beind ''reduced'' is due to the striking and darkening. You fail to understand the ''evidence'' that can possibly be taken into account concerning this notion starts and ends in Matthew 24:22 with this quote unquote ''mutilation'' you keep speaking of (which more accurately translates to lopped off/discounted), and you are now meshing verses while exchanging the meaning of other verses in order to support this interpretation.

Even if we are to assume 16 hour days...

16 hrs x 30 days = 480 hours x 42 months = 20,160 hours
Using normal 24 hour days, you get 30,240 hours

Finding the difference --> 10,080 hours which equates to roughly 14 months going by 24 hour days, or 21 months going by 16 hour days.

Either way days are being discounted, only you are taking the route that requires abandonning proper exegetical interpretation.

Here is a section of a study I did that I think fits in here.

Ben

The Thirty Days
To put the placement of the Rapture in perspective with the events here at "the end," let's look at Isaiah's prophecy again:
Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Isa 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

We might be tempted here to include New Testament saints in this passage, but we would be assuming this, though spiritually, rapture into his presence would be being hidden with him while he pours out his indignation upon the wicked who have gathered around Jerusalem. To take this passage as literal as we can, then we are talking about Israel in this passage. We will look at God's dealings with them in a moment, but let's focus on the phrase, "...a little moment, until the indignation be overpast."
There are many different thoughts on Daniel's 70th Week, and we can get bogged down looking at them, but we do have a definite period of time as described in the Revelation known as the "last 1260 days," of life on Earth, as we know it.

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

This last 1260 days of Earth, which is the same as 42 month, which is a 1-1/2 years based on the 360 Jewish Sabbatical year. This might have something to do with the verse in Daniel, which states:

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

There are many theories, but we know the scripture calls it 1260 days. If we compare this with Daniel's account we have a slight difference:

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

The difference between Daniel's vision of the last days, and John's is that of 30 days.

1290-1260=30

Do we have a verse describing what could be happening in the 30 days in question? Yes! Let's go to the prophet Zechariah:

Zec 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
So, who are these three shepherds that the Lord will cut off in one month that he loathes, and that abhor him?
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be

The Beast, the False Prophet, and the Dragon will be defeated at the battle of Armageddon at the close of the thirty days. These thirty days is the culmination of the Vial judgments being poured out. It is what Isaiah called, the little moment of God's indignation. He describes this same event in chapter 13:
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

It must be noted; this is not a time of punishment for God's children, but for the wicked. The punishment for sin was meted out on the cross and God's children are not appointed to wrath, neither are they recipients of it. To claim that God would not let his children go into or through the tribulation is to ignore the tribulation they have endured, by his grace, throughout the entire church age.

1Th 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Just as the Lord supernaturally protected his own during the plagues of Egypt, those who are saved will have supernatural power to overcome during the Tribulation:

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
God has shortened this last period for the sake of the repentant of Israel.
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

/

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Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Rev 16:8And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
The Hebrew word for shortened and diminshed is yoktan, and the days are yoktan in the tribulation, when the day/light does not shine for 1/3 of its parts, and the night/darkness does not shine for 1/3 of its parts, so that all flesh on earth does not perish from the smitten sun in those days.
The light and darkness make the days, not the sun and the moon, in Genesis chapter 1. The sun and moon govern the light that is called into being before they are made and set in the stretched out heavens -but I repeat myself again, to those with no ears to hear nor eyes to see and hardened hearts of unbelief to believe all the the LORD has spoken, and go about to make up stories based on their faulty foundations removed from the Word of God from the beginning.
Rev 8:12 ¶ And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

The sun is not the day nor is the moon and stars the night. If the light is not there, nor the darkness, for 1/3 of their parts, then the governors of the light/day and the night/darkness cannot govern the light.

Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.

Isa 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD [is] at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.Isa 13:7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
Isa 13:8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces [shall be as] flames.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for [their] evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
Isa 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
Isa 13:14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.

Isa 24:1 ¶ Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof. ...Isa 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Isa 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again. Isa 24:21 ¶ And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones [that are] on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. Isa 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, [as] prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited. Isa 24:23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

Enoch 80
The Sin of Mankind Affects the Heavenly Bodies
2And in the days of the sinners the years/days shall be shortened,
And their seed shall be tardy on their lands and fields,
And all things on the earth shall alter,
And shall not appear in their time:
And the rain shall be kept back
And the heaven shall withhold it.

3And in those times the fruits of the earth shall be backward,
And shall not grow in their time,
And the fruits of the trees shall be withheld in their time.
4And the moon shall alter her order,
And not appear at her time.
5 And in those days the sun shall be seen and he shall journey in the evening on the extremity of the great chariot in the west
And shall shine more brightly than accords with the order of light.
6And many chiefs of the stars shall transgress the order prescribed.
And these shall alter their orbits and tasks,
And not appear at the seasons prescribed to them.
7And the whole order of the stars shall be concealed from the sinners,
And the thoughts of those on the earth shall err concerning them,
And they shall be altered from all their ways,
Yea, they shall err and take them to be gods.
8And evil shall be multiplied upon them,
And punishment shall come upon them
So as to destroy all."

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Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Achilles6129 said:

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What I'm saying is that this can also be a description of the sun not shining for 1/3 of its time. I'm saying that the last part of that passage explains that the sun will not shine for 1/3 of its time.



Like you pointed out at the beginning, the day "shone not" for 1/3 means that the day "appeared not" for 1/3:


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I would like to point out, again, that the day was brought into being before the heavens were stretched out from the earth [between the divided waters], and the day was composed of light and darkness/day and night , in equal parts the moment the light was called into being -and even may be the atomic power of the magnetic field of the created earth.
The sun and moon and stars were made and set in the stretched out heavens so as to govern/rule the light by day and by night, and to be the signs for the seasons.
If the day and the night do not shine for a third part of them, then the light is missing for one third of its parts -not hours, as we count the day, but as God counts it in Enoch's revelation, in parts equal only twice a year.

Achilles6129 said:

You're ignoring the part of the passage where it says that the day would not shine for the third part and the night likewise.

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And who said I was ignoring it? I am not even doing such a thing. For what reason is a third of the days/nights not shining? You only prove how there really is nothing to support this idea, as now you are chopping the verse in half and only interpreting that half. I don't even need to go much further than that. This segment you quote can be interpreted either or, it is only when you take the full passage into consideration, however, that it becomes clear why a third part of the days and nights are not shining.

''The fourth angel sounded, and a third of the sun and a third of the moon and a third of the stars were struck, so that a third of them would be darkened...and the day would not shine for a third of it, and the night in the same way. ''

Likewise, you can go and quote Matthew 10:34...

“Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.''

And conclude that Jesus was a violent man who came to bring strife, but clearly this is not the case. This is what happens when you chop up verses and remove them from the context they were placed in.

Ladies and gentlemen, shalom.

Regarding the passage in Revelation about the light being blocked for a 1/3 of the day and a 1/3 of the night, you neglect to notice that the TIME does not decrease. That 1/3 of each is not reduced; it is merely dark then!

Now, you COULD conclude that since it is dark an additional 4 hours, there's less daylight hours in which for them to kill people, but that hardly makes sense.

No, I believe that the "shortening of the days" is not the overall length of time but is the number of days within each outburst of persecution with longer gaps between persecutions.

Furthermore, I believe that the "tribulation," particularly that mentioned in the Olivet Discourse (Matt. 24-25; Mark 13; Luke 21) is a persecution that is placed on the Jews because of their rejection of the Messiah of God, the One who was supposed to be their King (and will yet be their King).

This is no mere 7-year period; it is a persecution - a tribulation - that has lasted for almost 2000 years! It started in the mid-first-century and has continued to the present. It will continue until the Jews can say, "Baruwk haba' b'shem YHVH" (interpreted as "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the LORD") which means "Welcome, Comer in the Authority of YHVH."

Yeshua` said they would not see Him again until they could (1) say those words and (2) say them from the Temple:

Matt. 23:37-39
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. (This is a quotation from Psalm 118:26.)
KJV

Ps. 118:22-26
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the Lord's doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now, I beseech thee, O Lord: O Lord, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the Lord: we have blessed you out of the house of the Lord.
KJV

Fortunately (or rather, providentially), God has told us through Rav Sha'uwl (the Apostle Paul) that the time will come when...

Rom. 11:23-27
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
KJV

So, there you go. No great mystery, it's just that God is working with His original people to bring them back to their Messiah.

In the Messiah's love,
Roy

Retrobyter said:

Ladies and gentlemen, shalom.

Regarding the passage in Revelation about the light being blocked for a 1/3 of the day and a 1/3 of the night, you neglect to notice that the TIME does not decrease. That 1/3 of each is not reduced; it is merely dark then!

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Day -measured time- and night -measured time- is cut off/shortened/mutilated -is no more- for one third of its former measure.

If your arm is 30 inches long and gets cut off/mutilated/diminished/shortened for one third of its length, then your arm is 20 inches long thereafter.
The night/darkness and day/light were made before the sun, moon, and stars, in Genesis 1. The length of the night/darkness and light/day shining on earth was 24 hours -an evening and a morning- from the beginning [Genesis 1]. The sun, moon, and stars were not the darkness or the light, and the sun and moon were set in the heavens on day 4 of creation week to "rule/govern" the light by day and by night. The stars tell the seasons, and in the tribulation, the seasons will be backwards when the earth is turned upside down, moved out of her place, and staggars as a drunken man and jumps about as a hunted roe. At that time, the sun will be smitten and shine brighter than normal, and so will the moon, burning all that lives on earth with great heat.
Therefore, during the tribulation: the days/lighttime and nights/darkness times will be cut off/diminished/mutilated/shortened, to one third of their "shining", so that all living things on earth will not perish -esp for the elect's sake [for Israel's sake, cause the Church is gone]. Since the days are not shining, then the sun and moon cannot govern them for a full 24 hours -18 parts, as Enoch states- but only for 16 hours -12 parts, as Enoch teaches us.