The Creationist Corner

Loudmouth · Dec 3, 2015

rockytopva said:
There is no such thing as natural selection.

Then how is it that the mice found on black basalt lava flows are predominantly black, and the mice found in the brown desert around the lava flows are predominantly brown, even though the two populations freely interbreed?

http://www.pnas.org/content/100/9/5268.full

Loudmouth · Dec 3, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
Function follows design.

Function doesn't require intelligent design.

rockytopva · Dec 3, 2015

There is no way nothing can put together a body composed of trillions of cells working together for the good of one body. It can't happen! Consider also that each cell is like a tiny computer...

And each of these cells are like tiny computers...

Nucleus of a cell is like a mother board of a computer.
Lysosome is like a trash bin, they both break down items in the computer or cell. A lysosome breaks down cell substances. Where as in a computer the trash bin breaks down files you put into it
A gegi body modify s proteins, and distributes them throughout the cell. Where in a computer the graphics card breaks down video, and sends it to the monitor.
Mitochondrion A power supply, supply's the computer with the power for it to turn on and do its functions. Mitochondrion Provides power for a cell to do its functions. Both the cell membrane and the case of a computer are the same thing.The cell membrane is a thin flexible barrier of the cell, controlling substance going into and out of the cell.
Cytoplasm is basically the filling in between all the parts of a cell. To a computer this is the whole setup of the computer system. Endoplasmic Reticulum A RAM stick in a computer makes all the computations the computer is doing. This makes is so you can basicly do everything you need to. In a cell the Endoplasmic Reticulum is the site of protein synthesis, which gives you the necessary things you need to do work.
The nuclear membrane in a cell compares to virus protection in a computer. the nuclear membrane surrounds the nucleus,as virus protection surrounds the whole computer.
The nucleus is the main unite of a cell and like a processor. They both control the basic functions of the cell, and the computer.
The cytoskeleton is the framework of a cell. In a computer the framework of a cell would be the internal metal of the computer case The nuceous is the site of ribosome production for a cell. But in a computer the CPU is the site of small and large computations.
The Ribosomes are the site of protein synthesis. Vacuoles are temporary storage in a cell. In a computer the Hard Drive stores and saves all files as well.

Consider also that these cells can crave elements such as Calcium and literally draw them out of your bone structure. Cell craving can also make us experience hunger as the cells needs nutrients to survive. For trillions of these cells to come together for the reality of a human life had to take intelligent design.

joshua 1 9 · Dec 3, 2015

Loudmouth said:
Function doesn't require intelligent design.

The point is all of the universe follows all of the same natural laws or scientific laws. Evolution which represents change is governed by laws and constants that do not change.

Loudmouth · Dec 3, 2015

rockytopva said:
There is no way nothing can put together a body composed of trillions of cells working together for the good of one body.

No one is claiming that nothing put cells together.

Loudmouth · Dec 3, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
The point is all of the universe follows all of the same natural laws or scientific laws. Evolution which represents change is governed by laws and constants that do not change.

And?

DogmaHunter · Dec 4, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
Function follows design. Have you ever seen a pyramid is Egypt? When you are building out of rock that design is the only way you can build that high.

The difference is that we can demonstrate that the pyramids in egypt are the result of designers.

You cannot do the same with the universe.

Of course when you build out of iron instead of stone or rock, then you can have a different design. The same is true with brick. You have a different material so you can build using a different design. I was in the construction business way to long to believe that things can build themselves.

Things self-assemble all the time in nature.

Even if they could build themselves they still have to follow the laws of design that are built into the universe.

You mean the laws of physics

DogmaHunter · Dec 4, 2015

rockytopva said:
There is no way nothing can put together a body composed of trillions of cells working together for the good of one body. It can't happen!

Then I guess it's a good thing that nobody is claiming that, right?

Consider also that each cell is like a tiny computer...

Consider also that these cells can crave elements such as Calcium and literally draw them out of your bone structure. Cell craving can also make us experience hunger as the cells needs nutrients to survive.

Consider that that cell is also the result of 3.8 billion years of evolution.

For trillions of these cells to come together for the reality of a human life had to take intelligent design.

Just claiming it, doesn't make it true.

Also: argument of incredulity.

joshua 1 9 · Dec 4, 2015

DogmaHunter said:
The difference is that we can demonstrate that the pyramids in egypt are the result of designers.

You cannot do the same with the universe.

You can but it is at a esoteric level of consciousness that not everyone functions at. So this can only be demonstrated for people who's minds have developed and are able to function at this level.

DogmaHunter · Dec 4, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
You can

No, you cannot.

but it is at a esoteric level of consciousness that not everyone functions at.

Your claim to "special" knowledge is noted that somehow and for some mysterious reason is only accessible to a select few, is noted.

So this can only be demonstrated for people who's minds have developed and are able to function at this level.

Translation: it only impresses people that already have a priori religious beliefs on the matter.

joshua 1 9 · Dec 4, 2015

DogmaHunter said:
Your claim to "special" knowledge is noted that somehow and for some mysterious reason is only accessible to a select few, is noted.

Close but no cigar, it is not the knowledge itself that is so special. It is the ability to process the knowledge in a way that others are not able to. Kabbalah is an ancient teaching that is a unwritten and is said to go back to Moses. It is the Oral teaching that enables students to understand the written teaching of Moses. AT the time of Jesus there was a lot of controversy and as a student of the Torah Jesus was often asked by other Torah students what His interpretation and understanding was on areas that they talked about at the time. Even when He was 12 years old the people in the Temple were very impressed with Jesus and His understanding of the Torah.

Here are a few Kabbala teaching, these are not actually Christian but more Hebrew.
They point out the limitation that Science has with their limited knowledge and understanding.

"This means that it is not possible to intellectually inquire above the level of chochmah.
God's activities may be researched, inquired, thought about and analyzed up to a certain point.
Past this point intellectual understanding is impossible because higher aspects of God's providence
simply do not come through intellectual channels.

extrapolating the art of pilpul

what appeared to be contradictory, repetitive, or redundant
appeared so only because of the intellectual limitations of the students"

"Kabbalah is to Torah what philosophy is to science.
Like science, the Torah gives us the facts that are fully perceived sensually and rationally quantifiable.
Like philosophy, Kabbalah gives us the grander abstract picture that the facts present."

Hebrew Creationists tend not to be evangelical. They only their teaching available for those who are interested and want to study and learn. But if your not interested then they do not push it on you the way Christians like to do. You have to demonstrate a willingness to learn before they will offer you what they have.

DogmaHunter · Dec 4, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
Close but no cigar, it is not the knowledge itself that is so special. It is the ability to process the knowledge in a way that others are not able to. Kabbalah is an ancient teaching that is a unwritten and is said to go back to Moses.

Yes, like I said.... religious claims to "special" knowledge / abilities.

As I said... it is noted.

Meanwhile, I'll stick to things that can be demonstrated using rational evidence, which do not make an appeal to "special abilities" in a religious fashion.

rockytopva · Dec 4, 2015

DogmaHunter said:
Consider that that cell is also the result of 3.8 billion years of evolution.

the earth and the sun were plasma energy 3.8 billion years ago.

Loudmouth · Dec 4, 2015

rockytopva said:
the earth and the sun were plasma energy 3.8 billion years ago.

The Sun and Earth formed 4.5 billion years ago.

rockytopva · Dec 4, 2015

Loudmouth said:
The Sun and Earth formed 4.5 billion years ago.

By the hand of he who formed it.

Loudmouth · Dec 4, 2015

rockytopva said:
By the hand of he who formed it.

Evidence?

rockytopva · Dec 4, 2015

Loudmouth said:
Evidence?

The E = mc2 formula... If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Our brains output is a result of E/c2
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

When you disassociate and atom you can measure the energy by multiplying the mass by the speed of light squared... I understand that... But the actual dissociation is not a mathematical formula... It is something that will blind and burn you. So... Let's get away from the formula and examine the chemical properties. Fission and Fusion power the sun as the massive amounts of energy are emitted from the energy and light already sewn inside the atom.

A heart full of the spiritual E/c2 is soft, tender, gentle, full of goodness light, energy, motivation... In order to see these things you must become at one with the creator, then you will find his spiritual energies and believe.

Loudmouth · Dec 4, 2015

rockytopva said:
The E = mc2 formula... If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Our brains output is a result of E/c2
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

When you disassociate and atom you can measure the energy by multiplying the mass by the speed of light squared... I understand that... But the actual dissociation is not a mathematical formula... It is something that will blind and burn you. So... Let's get away from the formula and examine the chemical properties. Fission and Fusion power the sun as the massive amounts of energy are emitted from the energy and light already sewn inside the atom.

A heart full of the spiritual E/c2 is soft, tender, gentle, full of goodness light, energy, motivation... In order to see these things you must become at one with the creator, then you will find his spiritual energies and believe.

Nowhere do I see evidence for this claim: "By the hand of he who formed it."

DogmaHunter · Dec 5, 2015

rockytopva said:
By the hand of he who formed it.

It's called "gravity".

rockytopva · Dec 26, 2015

As E = mc2 so we can divide and conclude that,

m (mass) = E/c2 (energy) - And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - The natural E/c2, or mass, has gravity. There are between 70 and 100 trillion cells in a human body. These cells can demand calcium right of our bone structure if they wish. They also demand food in the way of hunger. The mass of a celestial body has gravity too.

Mental E/c2 - The human brain has about 100 billion cells. Linked by synapses, each brain cell can connect to tens of thousands of other brain cells. And these cells can demand knowledge which motivates the entire mass towards an education.

Spiritual E/c2 - There is also a spiritual E/c2 that is tied into our cells. As energy is measured by heat so the spiritual variations would be love, warmth, motivation, and companionship. As light is measured They demand that which is not natural or mental... Love, warmth, companionship, joy, fellowship, etc.

The light of the body is the eye (imagination): if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness! - Matthew 6:22-23

These cells can build from what they have sensed naturally, and reasoned mentally, into something we call an imagination! Something very important to each human being!

"The world of reality has its limits; the world of imagination is boundless." Jean-Jacques Rousseau
"Imagination is the great spring of human activity, and the principle source of human improvement." -Glenn Clark
"They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night."- Edgar Allan Poe
You can't depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus.
Mark Twain
"I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free. -Michelangelo
"Live out of your imagination, not your history." -Stephen Covey
"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk."-Thomas A. Edison
"Imagination rules the world." -Napoleon Bonaparte

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