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I had just assumed that Genesis was oral history that the ancients handed down. Someone somewhere thought to write it down.The creation story: (Genesis)
- Was the universe created in six literal days?
- Was Adam the first human, a created being?
- Was Adam created in the image of God, after his likeness? (appearance)
- Is the Genesis account literal, or figurative?
- Was the Genesis account based on an oral tradition? (origins myth)
- In reference to Adam, is the conclusion of the genealogy of Jesus correct? (see below)
Luke 3:38 NIV
the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
Catholic teaching is that, while many of the elements in the story of creation and the fall are figurative or symbolic, it nonetheless involves real people, by whatever names, a real first set of parents who’re the true sole ancestors of all living human beings and who committed the first act of disobedience of God, aka the “original sin” or “ancestral sin”.The creation story: (Genesis)
- Was the universe created in six literal days?
- Was Adam the first human, a created being?
- Was Adam created in the image of God, after his likeness? (appearance)
- Is the Genesis account literal, or figurative?
- Was the Genesis account based on an oral tradition? (origins myth)
- In reference to Adam, is the conclusion of the genealogy of Jesus correct? (see below)
Luke 3:38 NIV
the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
Maybe. Another reasonable idea is that it was actually polemic, directed against contemporary pagan views. The framework is very close to creation accounts from Babylon, etc, but those accounts see creation as a byproduct of ungodly behavior and conflicts among the gods. Genesis recasts the story as the act of the single God, making man in his image.I had just assumed that Genesis was oral history that the ancients handed down. Someone somewhere thought to write it down.
So I think it is a good record of what the ancients believed, how they thought about God.
I never thought I was supposed to believe what they believed though??
Not really. There is no mention of Adam or a single pair. Simply the assertion that from the beginning God intended people to have permanent marriages.Jesus referring to Adam as a real person:
Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”
(Matthew 19:3-6 NASB;
Catholic Answers isn’t so clear that this issue is settled for Catholics. Human Origins: Which is it? Science or Theology? In general the Catholic Church ends up accepting generally held scientific conclusions, though at times after a bit of delay.Catholic teaching is that, while many of the elements in the story of creation and the fall are figurative or symbolic, it nonetheless involves real people, by whatever names, a real first set of parents who’re the true sole ancestors of all living human beings and who committed the first act of disobedience of God, aka the “original sin” or “ancestral sin”.
I tend to agree. But there seem to be problems with both views. Do you believe that Adam was formed out of dust, as the Bible says? Or is it more the metaphor of, from dust to dust, in reference to death?The Creation is literal, but God also does not say or write anything without purpose. Not even His Word. Everything said has meaning.
How do you read the following verse?How did you arrive at these views?
Actually, I think theological concepts would be a real problem. Adam, and what he literally did, is the basis for the Fall of humankind. Jesus came to literally undo, what the literal Adam, literally did. - lolCould be both, his representative, archetypal role is obvious, but it does not mean that there was no literal first man chosen by God to represent us before Him (serving as a priest).
His literal existence is not needed, though. Theological concepts would stay the same.
What was the lynch pin for you. Assuming you abandoned a literal view at some point. Did "science" triumph over religion? Or what happened?Thinking, examining, reading, listening, watching.
Normal information process.
It seems to me that so much in the rest of the Bible builds on a literal reading of Genesis.I had just assumed that Genesis was oral history that the ancients handed down. Someone somewhere thought to write it down.
So I think it is a good record of what the ancients believed, how they thought about God.
I never thought I was supposed to believe what they believed though??
I got into original languages, various textual variants and editions and realized that it can all be read in many possible ways. I realized that the text is not preserved perfectly (actually far from that ) and it was the first step for leaving some literal fundamentalism and for the shift in my view of inspiration.What was the lynch pin for you. Assuming you abandoned a literal view at some point. Did "science" triumph over religion? Or what happened?
Even the creed begins with the theology of God being the creator of heaven and earth. Doesn't making that figurative mess with theology?
Yes, I think a mostly literal reading is essential to our beliefs. I'm struggling to understand the figurative view.Catholic teaching is that, while many of the elements in the story of creation and the fall are figurative or symbolic, it nonetheless involves real people, by whatever names, a real first set of parents who’re the true sole ancestors of all living human beings and who committed the first act of disobedience of God, aka the “original sin” or “ancestral sin”.
You may have a point there. A simple, condensed, portrait of creation, starring Adam and Eve. Simple enough for ancient people to understand and skipping over eons of time. Truth and simplicity.The Creation Story: Literal, or Figurative?
Why not both?
I do not see such difficulties. Maybe you can elaborate?Actually, I think theological concepts would be a real problem. Adam, and what he literally did, is the basis for the Fall of humankind. Jesus came to literally undo, what the literal Adam, literally did. - lol
Unless you think Jesus came to figuratively undo, what the figurative Adam, figuratively did? Where does that leave us?
As I have said all along, I think there are problems with both views. This is one of them.How do you read the following verse?
Genesis 2:9
Out of the ground the Lord God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Is the tree of life a literal tree? Eat it's fruit and bang; don't need Jesus.
Is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, a literal tree also?
Paul quite likely though Adam was a historical person. But it's easy to recast his insight in a modern way. Humanity as it naturally evolved was based on survival of the fittest. Jesus founded a new humanity, based on love of God and neighbor.Actually, I think theological concepts would be a real problem. Adam, and what he literally did, is the basis for the Fall of humankind. Jesus came to literally undo, what the literal Adam, literally did. - lol
Unless you think Jesus came to figuratively undo, what the figurative Adam, figuratively did? Where does that leave us?
What do you make of this? (the him is Jesus)I believe God created everyhing, just not in the way the ancient people imagined it.
Yes, the universe exists in God (in God's mind, lets say). The physical world is just an emergent world.What do you make of this? (the him is Jesus)
Colossians 1:16 NIV
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
Do you understand that there are literal consequences for the Fall of humanity? (original sin)I do not see such difficulties. Maybe you can elaborate?
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