The Cost of Discipleship

[Indignus]

Hi. I just wanted to share the name of a very good book I happened across (or which God led me to) that has opened my eyes to the true meaning of grace.

The book is The Cost Of Discipleship by Dietrich Bonhoeffer. I have not even finished the second chapter yet and already I have realized the depths of the deception that I have been under.

Bonhoeffer outlines the diffreence between the cheap grace that deceives and the costly grace that saves. He shows that faith and obedience are not two separate things, but a dichotomy that cannot be separated. Only those who believe obey, and only those who obey believe.

Having been exposed mostly to baptist/calvinist theology and going to baptist churches, I came to realize that a lot of things that are taught in those churches did not sit well with me. Namely, "once-saved, always saved", the rapture, the need to have a conversion "experience" in which you can remember the day and the hour of your salvation, and the idea that a believer who continues in unrepentant sin will have his life ended prematurely by God so that he cannot sin anymore. Also the bibliolatry and excessive legalism that is prevalent in the "independent, fundamental" baptist churches I am used to going to, which also hold to the opinion that they are the only true "Bible-believers".

Now I can add to that list the cheap grace without discipleship that these churches teach.

I am also interested in exploring the idea that the sacraments are a means of grace, and not mere symbols as many other churches teach. The idea of the "real presence" in the Lord's Supper is not something that is offensive to me, nor is confession/absolution with a priest/pastor involved.

There are a lot of good people in baptist churches, and I am sure there are many like me who do not believe everything that is taught in them but who continue to attend anyway for various reasons. However, in my studies of the different denominations, I have come to realize that there seems to be the most truth in the Lutheran churches, particularly the conservative ones. This book has become the impetus, the final tipping point, that will cause me to attend a Lutheran church this Sunday for the first time.

I do not want to call myself a born-again believer, even though I thought that's what I was. I have been deceived by others and I have also deceived myself. Grace is not just part of a doctrinal calculation that allows us to continue in disobedience without fear. Grace is the answer that the calculation is intended to bring to us through obedience and faith, which are inseparable. Only now do I realize the true meaning of James 1:22-25 and James 2:18-26.

 

[Luther073082]

I've heard of it, I should probably read it sometime. I'm glad it's led you towards the Lutheran church.

Do you have any questions about confessional Lutheranism (basically the churchs that you call "conservative" we call confessional, which has to do with the adhearence to the book of concord.)

The odd thing is I'm not for certain but it was my impression that Bonhoffer wasn't all that confessional.

Confession to a pastor is optional and always has been. It used to be used more then it is and has fallen into disuse a lot. I do know there are several pastors who are trying to bring it back. I know of one one who has kept 2 hours a week of office hours specifically for confession.

Of course it is still very much a part of the Lutheran tradition, so if you desired it and became a Lutheran you should be able to request to meet with the pastor for confession if you ever desired it.

I assure you that the sacraments do in fact have the real presence of Christ. This is very important to me, because teaching to the contrary is quite honestly just a creative way of re-interpreting the scriptures because eating Jesus's body and drinking his blood "seems weird". But the scriptures tell us exactly what it is, and it doesn't matter if you think it's weird or not.

And what is more, early church writings completly and utterly support the real presence point of view. The only real arguement against it is that it "seems kinda weird"

 

[7angels]

Indignus

i am glad to hear that God is opening your eyes. i pray that you do not lose your hunger for him and that every day you you are able to move closer to him then you were the day before. also i pray that God puts you into a church that will help you to grow in Christ. just remember that where ever to go that you measure everything said against the word. don't believe what people tell you unless you can find it in the word or you can end up in false teachings. i wish you well in whatever you decide.