The Christian Witness and Endorsing Fornication Between Any Two People

GwynApNudd said:

In other words, you can't or won't support your statements and accusations.

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In other words, you are a false teacher and won't get any more time of mine other than to identify you as such.

HaloHope said:

I do believe that fornication is an immoral thing, however it depends on your definition of fornication. If its in reference too someone sleeping around with many different partners outside a commited relationship, yes I do think it's wrong. In reference to cheating on a partner yes I think that's wrong too.

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Halo that's a man-centric answer. Fornication is fornication because GOD says it is, not because our definition says it is.

However inside the grounds of a commited relationship I believe that a couple is married as soon as they make a lifelong commitment to each other, whether this be just a verbal thing between the couple or a proper ceromony. God is not bound by earthly laws and the legal contract marriage has become so I believe in Gods eyes a couple is joined together when they make that commitment, hetrosexual or homosexual.

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Again, that's what you believe. But what does God's Word say that a marriage is and with whom does He join in covenant.

There's too much of what we think and believe. And this is why there is so much confusion on this issues.

My partner and I are having marriage in an actual ceromony before our relationship develops fully on a sexual level but this is down to personal choice. I personally don't have a problem with a couple who are commited to each other having sex as long as they are commited to each other.

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Again, that is what YOU believe and what YOU do not have a problem with. But what does GOD say?

united4Peace said:

Zaac...
What does God say?

Tell us?

I for one look at the Bible as being inspired by God and written by humans not being written by God...so dont try telling me that the Bible is God's Word...though you may believe that yourself...(and that is fine as you are intitled to that belief and I think that is great you believe that and am not putting your belief down...at the same time you need to respect my belief).

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I'm not going to try telling you anything.

And I didn't ask you how you look at the Bible. Consequently, how you or anyone else looks at It is a nonissue because The Bible is still what God says it is.

If there is a purported Christian who tells me that God's Word isn't His Word, all I've got to say is that your god is mighty small if he can't maintain his word.

This is why so many are spiritually anemic and at the same point they were when they first became Christians. And this is why so many have never shared their testimonies or led anyone to Christ.

You're incapable of doing so because your lives and your salvation are based upon manufactured lies.

You still havent pointed out to me where Im breaking the rules by Flaming Christians..as I am a Christian
so I am still waiting on that...(I believe that is on another post...cant remember now which one)

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If it's another post, why bring it up in this one? If you do it, it'll be reported and you'll know.

God speaks to us all in different ways...not only through the Bible...
If the Bible was the only way to get in touch with God then God would be a lost cause...
God moves through us all, God speaks through many ways...
One doesnt have to read the Bible to be in touch with God, to hear God or to feel God.

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Yep authoring confusion because the Bible doesn't allow for you to freely sin. Go ahead and reject God's Word and hear "god" speaking to you in a different way and saying things that contradict His inerrant Word.

The tongue of the wise commends knowledge, but the mouth of the fool gushes folly. Proverbs 15:2

united4Peace said:

ahh okay sorry you think Im sinning still...

I guess you only see God through the Bible and no where else...
(your choice)

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My choice is to se God as He says He is. Your view of god would have to be your own manufactured god because you reject His truth in which He shares Who He is.

For as many times as someone comes with this silliness about man corrupting God's Word, I always have to ask how you came to Christ? For if there is something of your christ that is contrary to the
Christ of the Bible, you're dealing with a false god.

If you are a Christian, how did you come to know of Jesus? Was it from the Word that you say is not God's Word?

What's your measure of truth? How do you test the spirits to know who is speaking to you?

I was refering to myself not looking at the Bible as God's word and you got upset and accused me of flaming Christians (though I do look at the Bible at being inspired by God)

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Naah. You've said it is NOT God's Word. And in accordance with CF rules, that is a flame toward Christians because true Christ following Christians believe the Bible to be His Word, and you're in a Christian forum that adhers to the way of Christ as exampled in His Holy Word.

Although still you havent answered about what God says to you?
God's word according to you is only in the Bible...
What about in prayer?? Do you ever find God's word in prayer or elsewhere?

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And I ask you again, if the Bible is not accepted by you as God's inerrant Word, how do you know you're talking to God when you receive a Word in prayer

Satan is a master of he power of suggestion. It's what he does. He can't read your mind, but hecan certainly put suggestions in there. By what means are you testing the spirits if not by God's inerrant Word?

HaloHope said:

God speaks to many of us in different ways, all my opinions come from a combination of reading the Bible AND praying to God about what certain parts mean.

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And this is why I keep saying that Scripture simply isn't this complicated. God's Word is absolute truth. If fter prayer and reading you conclude something that is not aligned with God's Word, then you've concluded incorrectly.

I can't claim that I KNOW any of the above things as fact as I merely state what I believe based on my own interpretation of the Bible and what I feel he himself as told me. To me direct prayer and communication with God via prayer is far more important than the Bible.

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As the Written Word is the very character of the Living Word, the latter statement is blasphemous. The Bible, God's Written Word, is the manner that you may test what you receive in prayer. If what you receive in prayer does not align with God's Word, it is not of Him..

This is why I keep wondering why so many make things so complicated? if Christians would just accept God's Word as absolute and stop this silliness about what I believe and that what I receive in prayer or my experience is by far more important than the Bible, there would be no confusion.

If everyone is accepting God's Word as absolute truth because it is, look at where the confusion enters in? It enters in when folks don't accept God's truth as truth.

It enters in when folks rely more on their experience than His Word.

Confusion is of man, not of God.

What do you test the word received from your prayer life against? How do you know the response is of God?

God's Word tells you how to distinguish the Holy Spirit, the deliverer of truth, from other spirits.

united4Peace said:

Ive always been Christian...born and raised in the Christian Church...

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What do you mean you've always been a Christian? You are not going to sit here and tell me that you are a Christian because you are a member of a Church and was raised in the church, are you?

My relationship with God is always changing just as all relationships do...as I age and mature and learn new things in life my understanding of life changes therefore all my relationships in my life are going to change...

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Again Ive always known Jesus...

Both from the Bible, from Church, from my heart, from others telling me about God, from God her/him self...

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And this is what the Bible refers to as heresy.

Again...I said I believe the Bible to be Inspired by God...one learns alot about God from the Bible...I did not diss the Bible or say that one did not learn about God from the Bible.

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You referred to yourself as not looking to the Bible as God's Word. And based upon the fasle doctrine that you have just given in this thread, you are not what you say you are.

Its called Faith (and Trust)

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faith in trust in what? Your feelings? Your prayers? As was said, satan is perfectly capable of speaking to you and making you feel things. By what measure do you judge who is telling you what?

A Christian is someone who follows Christ...
Who has accepted Christ within them...
A Christian is someone who believes in the Trinity...
Not someone who necessarily believes the Bible is God's Word(some do, some don't)...
however does Cherrish the Bible as an important Book..as the Bible is inspired by God...

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United, you can't follow Jesus while rejecting the Word that is Him. The Bible examples the very character of the Living Word in Written Form. If you reject what the Written Word says, you reject the Living Word.

Again...my answer to you is Faith...

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And again the question to you is in what? That you've heard from God when you reject the very thing that He tells you to test the spirits by so that you will know?

Who told you that faith is the way that you know you are hearing from God?

I have Faith in God...that God is listening and has more power than any other force...
God is the ultimate of power and wont let anything happen to his/her creation that isnt meant to be...

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Sweet, merciful Jesus. Have you ever evn read the Bible? Have you read the countless things that God allowed to happen to Israel? to the Biblical leaders?

If Satan was allowed to tempt Christ, what makes you think your mind is exempt?

But I guess you would have to believe that the Bible is God's Word to believe what it says inside.

Again...I said I believe the Bible to be Inspired by God...one learns alot about God from the Bible...I did not diss the Bible or say that one did not learn about God from the Bible.

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But you also said that you don't look to the Bible as God's Word. What is the standard by which you righteously judge all things if not God's standard of absolute truth? And if you're not accepting His standard as absolute truth, what grounss do you have to trust your faith if you lack faith that His Word is His Word?

I really dont know what to say to your post Zaac...
no matter what I say your just going to shoot me down...

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I'm honestly not attempting to shoot you down. I just want you to have the truth. And if you are not using God's inerrant Word as your standard of truth by which you test the spirits and righteously judge all things, you're going to be deceived by the enemy a lot.

If you believe that the Bible is inspired by God, why do you think the God who is capable of inspiring men to write His Word down is so small that He can't maintain His Word?

No...it means Ive always been apart of the Christian family and raised in the Christian enviornment and trying to follow Christ to the best of my human capabilities.

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How have you always been a part of the Christian family? Christ has to draw you unto Himself and you have to accept before you be a member of the Christian family. So how have you always been a member?

Being raised in a Christian environment does not make you a Christian. And there is nothing that you can do under your human capabilities that can follow Christ. Christ is followed in the Spirit.

Your human capabilities are of the flesh.

In our family we have been introduced to Church as infants...(that is something for another thread though)...thing is we believe and are taught that God is with us from day one...that God never lets go of his/her children...

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Man, you're almost bringing me to tears. Who has told you this lie that you are a Christian because you were introduced to the Church as an infant? That doesn't make you anymore a Christian than me running to the outermost parts of the world and introducing all those who haven't heard to the church would make them Christians.

To be saved, there has to be a confession and repentance of sin and a placing of faith in Jesus Christ because of what He did through His death, burial and resurrection.

Not all are His children. We are all His CREATION. But we are not all His children. To be His child, you must be born again. You must accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and as the one who paid the penalty for your confessed and repented of sin.

Your parents can't do that for you. Salvation is not inherited. It is not passed from generation to generation just because you are members of a church.

It is an individual choice that YOU have to make. And introducing you to the church as an infant is in no way you confessing and repenting of your sin and placing your faith in Jesus Christ.

Please, please don't let your eternal soul rest in what your parents did at your birth.


Jesus Christ wants a relationship with YOU. He wants you to show that YOU appreciate what He did for you. Your parents can't do this.

What false Doctrine did I give and what then am I according to you?

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You espoused that the Bible was not God's Word. And you have evidenced that by the Biblical standard, you are not a follower of Christ.

I know by now you're probably thinking "how dare you?" But I beg of you to get past that. DOn't let your etrnal salvation hinge on what your parents did when you must give an account for your own sin before God.

YOU must confess and repent of your sin and place your faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. What your parents did has no bearing on your salvation.

Faith in God is what I have...not my feelings...

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Absent having absolute truth by which to test in whom you really have faith, you don't know who it is that you have placed your faith is. This is why God's Word says that faith comes by hearing and how will they hear unless people go?

I believe in God...I believe that Jesus died fighting evil and won...

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The devil and his demons also believe in God. Simply believing does not save you. You believe the same thing as the devil and his demons and they ecrtainly are not saved.

That Jesus didnt die on that cross for nothing....The God part of JEsus is more powerful than anything...than any evil of this world...
So I just trust God to do the right thing...

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Jesus Christ has done everything that HE needs to do. The Work of the Cross is DONE. He is already victorius. Now it is up to you to accept His victory. It is up to you to confess and repent of your sin and place your faith in Jesus.

Nothing I say to you though will be good
enough...

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You are indeed right. There is nothing you can say. But there is something that you can do.

You can admit that you are a sinner.
You can confess of your sin and repent of it to Jesus Christ knowing and admitting that noone(mama, daddy, grandmama, grandpapa, etc) can do this for you.
You can open your heart and let Jesus know that you know that He died on the cross, was buried and resurrected so that you can have eternal life.
You can boldly place your faith in Him and accept everything that you as a new heir to the King are due.

He's done everything. All you have to do is truly open your heart to Him, confess and repent of your sin, and accept it before you don't get the opportunity again.

Have you read the Bible??
Where did Jesus give into these temptations??
Jesus never once gave into the temptations...(at least no where that I have seen).

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I didn't say that He gave in. He quoted Scripture in response to Satan's temptation. He quoted the very Scripture that so many are saying is not God's Word.

united4Peace said:

Just too add...

Repenting isnt done just once...
Repenting is done on a daily basis...

When one converses with God in their daily conversation they confess....
Confession isnt a one time deal either...

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I understand that. But if you haven't been washed in the Blood of the Lamb and accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, then waht does this repentance matter if you're not saved?

But like you said, this whole infant baptism thing is for another thread.