The Christian is not bound to Saturday (Sabbath) OR Sunday!

ImperatorWall · Mar 24, 2013

The first day of the week is NOT the Sabbath. Nothing in Scripture moves Sabbath keeping from Saturday to Sunday.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come ; but the body [is] of Christ.

In Christ we have entered into a permanent Sabbath rest that the Sabbath of Israel typified under the old dispensation. As such, we are no longer bound to keeping a ceremonial Sabbath on the seventh day. All days can be kept the same for a Christian who so desires.

Hebrews

4:1 Let us therefore fear , lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached , as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it]. 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said , As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh [day] on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 4:5 And in this [place] again, If they shall enter into my rest. 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said , To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 4:8 For if Jesus (Joshua) had given them rest , then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his. 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

If you attempt to make this text mean that Sabbath or Sunday observation is required of the Christian as many do you have to ignore and misapply much of it. It is clearly talking about a rest that the Christian enters into in Christ, and not a rest we enter into on one day of the week. It also points back to the Sabbath to show how it typified Christ, and how that a Sabbath rest remains for us, but of a different and more wonderful sort. Verses 4-8 are referring to the seventh day Sabbath that was given Israel (Joshua had given them rest), and it clearly indicates that it pointed to Christ, who was the other day spoken of.

Verse 6 is astounding in that it makes clear to us that Israel (physical not spiritual) did not actually enter into the Sabbath rest of Christ no matter how many times they properly observed the Sabbath according to the law.

Sabbatarianism (treating Sunday like the Sabbath) is no different than keeping a seventh day Sabbath. Neither have a sure foundation in scripture.

ViaCrucis · Mar 24, 2013

Correct, Sunday isn't the Sabbath. Though Scripture does refer to it as "the Lord's Day", and it is the day Christians have traditionally gathered together for corporate worship.

There's no commandment that says Christians have to meet on the first day of the week, but there's no good reason to do away with what has been done since the beginning either.

-CryptoLutheran

ImperatorWall · Mar 24, 2013

ViaCrucis said:
Correct, Sunday isn't the Sabbath. Though Scripture does refer to it as "the Lord's Day", and it is the day Christians have traditionally gathered together for corporate worship.

There's no commandment that says Christians have to meet on the first day of the week, but there's no good reason to do away with what has been done since the beginning either.

-CryptoLutheran

I'm not advocating doing away with it, it is a good and worthy thing to meet on any day of the week.

But I am pointing out that those Christians who wish to bind themselves to some sort of tradition in an attempt to make Sunday holy do so without support of Scripture.

bugkiller · Mar 24, 2013

ImperatorWall said:
The first day of the week is NOT the Sabbath. Nothing in Scripture moves Sabbath keeping from Saturday to Sunday.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come ; but the body [is] of Christ.

In Christ we have entered into a permanent Sabbath rest that the Sabbath of Israel typified under the old dispensation. As such, we are no longer bound to keeping a ceremonial Sabbath on the seventh day. All days can be kept the same for a Christian who so desires.

Hebrews

4:1 Let us therefore fear , lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached , as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it]. 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said , As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh [day] on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 4:5 And in this [place] again, If they shall enter into my rest. 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said , To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 4:8 For if Jesus (Joshua) had given them rest , then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his. 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

If you attempt to make this text mean that Sabbath or Sunday observation is required of the Christian as many do you have to ignore and misapply much of it. It is clearly talking about a rest that the Christian enters into in Christ, and not a rest we enter into on one day of the week. It also points back to the Sabbath to show how it typified Christ, and how that a Sabbath rest remains for us, but of a different and more wonderful sort. Verses 4-8 are referring to the seventh day Sabbath that was given Israel (Joshua had given them rest), and it clearly indicates that it pointed to Christ, who was the other day spoken of.

Verse 6 is astounding in that it makes clear to us that Israel (physical not spiritual) did not actually enter into the Sabbath rest of Christ no matter how many times they properly observed the Sabbath according to the law.

Sabbatarianism (treating Sunday like the Sabbath) is no different than keeping a seventh day Sabbath. Neither have a sure foundation in scripture.

The only similarities are the religious ceremonial worship assemblies.

bugkiller

bugkiller · Mar 24, 2013

ImperatorWall said:
I'm not advocating doing away with it, it is a good and worthy thing to meet on any day of the week.

But I am pointing out that those Christians who wish to bind themselves to some sort of tradition in an attempt to make Sunday holy do so without support of Scripture.

And those who bind themselves to Saturday as Christans have no such authority except from a defunct replaced covenant law. There is not one single statement to be found in the NT thus NC requesting or demanding (command) to worship on Saturday or even take a day of physical rest. At least no one has provided the passage yet and I have not found it.

bugkiller

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 24, 2013

The Christian is not bound to Saturday (Sabbath) OR Sunday!

bugkiller said:
And those who bind themselves to Saturday as Christans have no such authority except from a defunct replaced covenant law.

There is not one single statement to be found in the NT thus NC requesting or demanding (command) to worship on Saturday or even take a day of physical rest. At least no one has provided the passage yet and I have not found it.

bugkiller

Neither was one provided on this thread:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7594041/
Why Aren't Christians Bound by the Saturday Sabbath?

Michie said:
An earlier post I wrote, Answering Seventh-day Adventism, has generated some helpful feedback from both current and former Adventists. The consensus seems to be that even if Catholics can show that the founders of Seventh-day Adventism were false prophets, that won't be good enough.

At its core, the logic is simple: Sabbath observance is part of the Ten Commandments. Actually, Adventists often claim that it's the most important of the Ten. White made the odd claim that it was “the only one of the ten which brings to view the true God, the Maker of the heavens and the earth.” So if One of the Ten Commandments is no longer binding, what about the other Nine? Can we just start murdering and committing idolatry, willy-nilly?

The answer to this gets into a broader question of the relationship between the relationship between the Law of Moses and the New Covenant. The short answer is this: Christ fulfilled the Law. None of the Law is binding simply by virtue of being the Law. Instead, here's what we're bound to follow (from Matthew 22:36-40):

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Click to expand...

[Those are the two commandments that we Christians have to live out. So some of the moral rules and restrictions found in the Law are still in effect: not because they're Law, but because they're necessary for living out a life of love of God and love of neighbor. This necessarily means that the prohibition against murder is treated very differently than, say, the prohibition against wearing wool and linen at the same time (Deuteronomy 22:11).

There's much more that can be said on that topic, but like I said, that's a bit complex. So let's look at the simpler question: what happens to the Sabbath. And here's the answer that the Scriptures give.

(1) Sabbath Observance is No Longer Binding

Click to expand...

Noxot · Mar 24, 2013

as long as nothing becomes a burden to the spiritual life then who cares. whatever is good let it be good but if you want to bite and devour each other then just know satan takes delight therein.

Lion King · Mar 24, 2013

ImperatorWall said:
I'm not advocating doing away with it, it is a good and worthy thing to meet on any day of the week.

But I am pointing out that those Christians who wish to bind themselves to some sort of tradition in an attempt to make Sunday holy do so without support of Scripture.

If i'm not mistaken, didn't the early church in Acts meet everyday for worship and to partake in the LORD's supper? I don't think El Shaddai is particularly concerned about which day we should congregate to praise and worship Him. What only matters is that we actually take time out of our lives to meet up regularly to praise and worship Him.

My two cents.

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 24, 2013

Lion King said:
If i'm not mistaken, didn't the early church in Acts meet everyday for worship and to partake in the LORD's supper?

I don't think El Shaddai is particularly concerned about which day we should congregate to praise and worship Him. What only matters is that we actually take time out of our lives to meet up regularly to praise and worship Him.

My two cents.

It is interesting to note the word "ALMIGHTY" is used only 1 time outside of the book of Revelation in the NT:

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G3841 matches the Greek παντοκράτωρ (pantokratōr), which occurs 10 times in 10 verses in the Greek concordance

2Cr 6:18
"I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters", says the LORD Almighty."

Rev 1:8
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end", saith the LORD,
"who is, and who was, and who is coming --the Almighty."

.

ViaCrucis · Mar 24, 2013

Lion King said:
If i'm not mistaken, didn't the early church in Acts meet everyday for worship and to partake in the LORD's supper? I don't think El Shaddai is particularly concerned about which day we should congregate to praise and worship Him. What only matters is that we actually take time out of our lives to meet up regularly to praise and worship Him.

My two cents.

What evolved as Christian liturgy had its origins in both the synagogue and Temple. The earliest Christians, being Jews, continued to attend synagogue on the sabbath. However it seems they would have gathered later on, after sabbath sundown, for the expressly Christian aspects of worship--the Lord's Supper and so forth.

The synagogue liturgy, following the separation of Church and Synagogue later in the first century, became incorporated into that Christian worship early on the first day of the week. This eventually became what's called the Liturgy of the Word--prayers, Scripture readings, hymns, and the homily. The second part of the liturgy, the Liturgy of the Altar was that uniquely Christian thing, the Lord's Supper.

The Liturgy of the Word tends to borrow strongly from the synagogue, while the Liturgy of the Altar borrows from the Temple. Early Roman historians near the turn of the 2nd century mention that Christians gathered very early before dawn, which would probably indicate what I mentioned above, originating from a tradition of post-Sabbath gathering.

By the time of St. Justin, in the mid 2nd century, he plainly says when writing to the Roman Senate that Christians gathered on what the Romans called "the day of the sun", Sunday (as opposed to the Roman "day of Saturn" or Saturday).

A combination of continued synagogue/temple liturgies among Jewish Christians with an evolving Christian liturgy is the antecedent of all Christian liturgy throughout history. Even "non-liturgical" churches retain some elements of these ancient forms (I put non-liturgical in quotes because there is still a liturgy going on, even if not called that). The offering of prayers, hymns, Scripture readings, and homily/sermon are regular parts of even the most informal of worship services.

-CryptoLutheran

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 24, 2013

Is there a difference on how SDAs and MJs celebrate the Jewish Sabbath?

I found this interesting post from an MJ concerning how he looks at it:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7719130/#post62692027

talmidim said:
Shabbat Shalom,

Though I have been very busy lately and haven't participated much, I have been watching the threads these last couple of weeks. There have been a few interesting topics, a few intentionally sensational topics and more than a few redundant and irrelevant ones too. I've even received a PM or two on the nature of the threads and how the end time stuff is bringing out the more extreme and imaginative among us and our visitors.

But what I have missed in this thread, are the contributions on how people choose to honor and observe the Sabbath in their home and why. When I started this thread, I would simply offer Sabbath good wishes or tell a little story illustrating how welcome it was in our house. Each blurb would be filled with little tidbits about lighting candles, the Sabbath meal or whatever. It was my hope that over time, others would share how they observed the Sabbath and what it means to them.

This Sabbath, while meditating on the restriction on kindling a fire on the Sabbath, the thoughts of how others observe came to mind. Some will not use electrical or electronic devices because they can cause a spark. Some take the prohibition in less restrictive terms, seeking only to literally comply without reading anything into it. Then again, there are those that point to the only judgement given within Torah of someone transgressing this Sabbath instruction, as having to do with someone actually leaving the camp and coming back with the 'kindling', the chopped or cut firewood; so their observance is even more lax.

In our house, we will keep the Sabbath flame burning, lighting one candle off of another. But we will not start a new fire unless there is risk to life for not doing so. Nor do we extinguish fire either and for like cause. While meditating on this, I remembered the fire on the Altar of Sacrifice. It was the fire from heaven that was to be kept burning by the Priests for all time. It was the fire that provided embers for the Altar of Incense and flame to reignite the cleansed, fueled and re-wicked lamps of the Menorah.

I thought the similarity compelling and worthy of meditation. Man instructed to do with his fire on the Sabbath, in the same manner that His Priests are to do with the Father's fire from heaven in the Temple everyday. Kindle nothing new, but light fire from fire and flame from flame. My thoughts raced from wilderness campsites to the Temple fires, to the thermonuclear fires of creation. In the end I found myself thinking about His ministering spirits; those beings of fire and ministers of His creation and His children.

This week, we will remember the Light of the World and the spark that He struck among the people of the world. We will remember what He fulfilled of prophecy that we might understand and live. We will seek to do as He instructed, remembering His instructions of the Exodus and of His sacrifice to our children and our children's children; all while giving thanks for all that He did. My biggest thoughts are too small for the smallest parts of Him. But like the Sabbath flame, I will seek to keep His fire burning within me. And I will seek to speak His truth and blessings over all, even as we were taught.

L'Shana Tovah v'Chag Sameach,
Phillip

ImperatorWall · Mar 24, 2013

Noxot said:
as long as nothing becomes a burden to the spiritual life then who cares. whatever is good let it be good but if you want to bite and devour each other then just know satan takes delight therein.

I have no problem with a Christian that keeps Saturday or Sunday to the Lord, none at all. I think it is a worthy thing and can understand why they desire to do so.

But these Christians do not give me the liberty I see revealed in Scripture to view all days as the same.

Thekla · Mar 24, 2013

"Be still, and know that I am God ..."

The Scriptures do teach the value of rest.

People tend to be 'busy' as a form of avoidance - the symptom of (spiritual) indolence can be either laziness (no action) or keeping busy (excess of action).

Keeping one day aside from work does help to keep balance in our lives ...

ImperatorWall · Mar 24, 2013

Thekla said:
"Be still, and know that I am God ..."

The Scriptures do teach the value of rest.

People tend to be 'busy' as a form of avoidance - the symptom of (spiritual) indolence can be either laziness (no action) or keeping busy (excess of action).

Keeping one day aside from work does help to keep balance in our lives ...

I enjoy a well earned rest as much as the next person. But I'm not going to tell a Christian man he must refuse to work on Sunday to support his family and cannot rest instead on Tuesday for example when he must.

I like having Saturday and Sunday off from work as much as anyone else, but I'm not going to put Christians under a yoke of Sabbatarianism that is not Biblical.

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 24, 2013

ImperatorWall said:
I enjoy a well earned rest as much as the next person. But I'm not going to tell a Christian man he must refuse to work on Sunday to support his family and cannot rest instead on Tuesday for example when he must.

I like having Saturday and Sunday off from work as much as anyone else, but I'm not going to put Christians under a yoke of Sabbatarianism that is not Biblical.

Beware the yoke of OC Mosaic Judaism!

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
Jesus vs the Pharisees and Chief Priests

Deu 28:48
"therefore you shall serve your enemies, whom YAHWEH will send against you, in hunger, in thirst, in nakedness, and in need of everything;
and He will put a yoke of iron on your neck until He has destroyed you.

Act 15:10
now, therefore, why do ye tempt God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Rev 6:5
And when he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying, `Come and behold!' and I saw and behold!
a black horse, and he who is sitting upon it is having a yoke in his hand

,

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G2218 matches the Greek ζυγός (zygos), which occurs 6 times in 6 verses in the Greek concordance

...........

.

.

Cribstyl · Mar 25, 2013

ImperatorWall said:
I'm not advocating doing away with it, it is a good and worthy thing to meet on any day of the week.

But I am pointing out that those Christians who wish to bind themselves to some sort of tradition in an attempt to make Sunday holy do so without support of Scripture.

Nice thread, I agree with your OP.
The scriptures say that some men worship one day and others worship all seven days alike. Why would you say "without support of scriptures" about day(s) a man hold sacred?
The scriptures concluded that each person's worship is between themselves and God. (therefore sacred)

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.
6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone.
8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister [fn1] ? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.
11 It is written:
“ ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’ ” [fn2]

12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.

The facts seems clear that Paul is saying; men worship on day(s) they consider sacred.
Paul is sayings not to judge them in this matter (or in what foods they eat).

Respects
CRIB

Stryder06 · Mar 25, 2013

ImperatorWall said:
I have no problem with a Christian that keeps Saturday or Sunday to the Lord, none at all. I think it is a worthy thing and can understand why they desire to do so.

But these Christians do not give me the liberty I see revealed in Scripture to view all days as the same.

My borther, I would urge you to look at the scriptures again, and consider Paul's words in light of the law of God, not in opposition to.

The sabbath is not like any other day because God sanctified it and declared it holy. It's His day. To say that the sabbath is now a common day would be incorrect unless you can find scripture where God declared it to be so. Only God can declare something to be holy, and only God can declare something to no longer be holy.

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 25, 2013

The Christian is not bound to Saturday (Sabbath) OR Sunday!

http://www.christianforums.com/t7430788/
This Thread Will End All Debate On The Sabbath Once And For All

pgp_protector said:
What 3 years later the debate isn't over ?
I thought the OP Stated It WOULD End the debate once and for all.

.

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 23, 2013

ViaCrucis said:
Correct, Sunday isn't the Sabbath.
Though Scripture does refer to it as "the Lord's Day", and it is the day Christians have traditionally gathered together for corporate worship.

There's no commandment that says Christians have to meet on the first day of the week, but there's no good reason to do away with what has been done since the beginning either.

-CryptoLutheran

Sounds good to me

http://www.christianforums.com/t7537625/
The Lord's Day

View Poll Results: The Lord's Day is...

Saturday

14 19.44%

Sunday

58 80.56%

OrthodoxyUSA said:
According to the Faith that you have been taught...

EDIT TO ADD:

On every Lord's Dayhis special day (Literally, "On every Lord's Day of the Lord.") come together and break bread and give thanks, first confessing your sins so that your sacrifice may be pure. Anyone at variance with his neighbor must not join you, until they are reconciled, lest your sacrifice be defiled. For it was of this sacrifice that the Lord said, "Always and everywhere offer me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is marveled at by the nations."

Click to expand...

EDIT END:

The Lord's Day is Saturday.

or

The Lord's Day is Sunday.

Forgive me...

.

Standing Up · Aug 23, 2013

Stryder06 said:
My borther, I would urge you to look at the scriptures again, and consider Paul's words in light of the law of God, not in opposition to.

The sabbath is not like any other day because God sanctified it and declared it holy. It's His day. To say that the sabbath is now a common day would be incorrect unless you can find scripture where God declared it to be so. Only God can declare something to be holy, and only God can declare something to no longer be holy.

Here you go from the Septuagint Psalm-

95:6 Come, let us worship and fall down before him; and weep before the Lord that made us.
95:7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand.
95:8 To-day, if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, according to the day of irritation in the wilderness:

Thus, Heb. 4:6 Seeing [that they did not enter His rest] therefore it remaineth that some should enter thereinto, and they to whom the good tidings were before preached failed to enter in because of disobedience,
vs7 he [God] again defineth a certain day, To-day, saying in David so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before), To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts.

Hope that helps.

The Christian is not bound to Saturday (Sabbath) OR Sunday!

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