The Christian Conservative Right Is A Sham.

Albion · Apr 30, 2014

Skybringr said:
In Roman Catholicism, you see, divorce doesn't really exist. In light of God and the rite of marriage, she's still married to my father, the first marriage.

On the contrary, she could convert to Roman Catholicism and have the church declare that none of them really was a marriage. And if she had been a Catholic, a few bucks and a claim of not really knowing what she was getting into would result in the church declaring her divorce an "annulment" instead of a divorce. Over 100,000 Catholics in the USA alone did that in a recent year.

Almighty's humble servant · May 1, 2014

parousia70 said:
Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of water, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to ensure their safety and that they work as advertised.

All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some whining liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance -- now Joe gets it, too.

He prepares his morning breakfast: bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.

Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for the laws to stop industries from polluting our air.

He walks on the government-provided sidewalk to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union.

If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment checks because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It is noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime. Joe also forgets that in addition to his federally subsidized student loans, he attended a state funded university.

Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards to go along with the taxpayer funded roads.

He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans.

The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.

He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.

Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved conservatives have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

OMGoodness......

Did you write this yourself?????

If so, may I have permission to copy it and paste it around the internet???

Skybringr · May 1, 2014

Albion said:
On the contrary, she could convert to Roman Catholicism and have the church declare that none of them really was a marriage. And if she had been a Catholic, a few bucks and a claim of not really knowing what she was getting into would result in the church declaring her divorce an "annulment" instead of a divorce. Over 100,000 Catholics in the USA alone did that in a recent year.

Still better then getting married and divorced a million times, and treating holy rite like a joke.

Psalm 91 · May 1, 2014

Skybringr said:
I gave you a particularly deep video and referenced a book which speaks on America's emerging police state.

The proof is everywhere, it's the reality of the country we are living in right now.
Like I said, and know that it's amusing to me, that those like yourself just twiddle your thumbs and deny it. There is police abuse every single day in this country, right down to even the minor things such as police usurping authority which they do not have, taking advantage of people's ignorance to rights they have.

There's no point in me providing proof. I could give you literal hundreds of sources, but it wouldn't change anything. You are diametrically opposed to any notion that the world is not how you see it; a lost cause.

You forgot killing innocent people who call them for help and the pets too.

Psalm 91 · May 1, 2014

Jeremiah Land said:
Thank y'all both for these posts. I really agree with these points and felt they were thoughtful contributions to the thread.

I don't care about politics and so I'd like to avoid name-calling, but it's fair to say that as Americans and Christians we have in many, many ways grown stagnant. We go through certain motions - be it attending church, donating money, or even volunteering our time. But are we really caring for others in the way that God calls us to? I'm not excluding myself from this.

In so many ways our culture is just plain rotten. And not in a political Red-Blue way that so many people get all too caught in. At our very core, we as people have become apathetic, narcissistic, overtly materialistic, and lazy (spiritually and physically). Our sense of community is so far gone that I pray God will help us.

It's one of the big reasons I will never attend a "megachurch". I feel in my heart they embody so many of those 'bigger-is-better', greedy characteristics we have as Americans -- and I'm not saying many of these churches don't do a lot of good -- but they don't sit well with me.

I think the Knights of Columbus is an inspirational organization. I'm not a member or even a practicing Catholic anymore, and they're so big that I'm all too sure that they have their own set of issues and red-tape nowadays. But looking at their founding, Father McGivney saw that many (mostly immigrant) Catholic men were getting sick and/or passing at an early age, leaving behind families to fend for themselves. And so he set up that support system which especially at that time, was not there previously. I really respect that.

Obviously we have to take a bigger picture approach and not just focus on our own, immediate issues... so it's good for us to help out others, be it in a foreign country or what have you. But I can't help feel that as a church, there is so much more we can be doing to support our communities, especially in these hard times. Giving someone two dollars or showing them how to cook just doesn't cut it.

Not to get off topic but the Knights of Columbus also have "secrets" that their members keep. My aunt was so angry that my uncle wouldn't tell her the secrets that she almost divorced him (not really, people didn't get divorced in those days).

Psalm 91 · May 1, 2014

parousia70 said:
Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of water, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to ensure their safety and that they work as advertised.

All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some whining liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance -- now Joe gets it, too.

He prepares his morning breakfast: bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.

Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for the laws to stop industries from polluting our air.

He walks on the government-provided sidewalk to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union.

If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment checks because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It is noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime. Joe also forgets that in addition to his federally subsidized student loans, he attended a state funded university.

Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards to go along with the taxpayer funded roads.

He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans.

The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.

He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.

Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved conservatives have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

What is that all about???? Unions have all but destroyed the American car companies with their demands for huge pensions for workers. That killed Detroit. The teacher's unions make it impossible to fire a bad teacher. In fact, the teacher's union in Chicago is going to set up house in the Sears building downtown which cost what? a million or more? The environmentalists are stopping the pipeline because Obama is so beholden to them and as a result thousands will remain out of work. I'll hold my breath as the oil trucks pass me on the highway fifty times a day affecting the environment more than a pipeline ever would. Sure, some of the things you mentioned are good things, but the country doesn't have money and since most of those programs and policies have been passed by liberals, what is the debt the U.S. has now? Tax and spend. Republicans tend to destroy us overseas while Democrats destroy us domestically. And by the way, why is it now so distasteful to take care of elderly relatives? Another reason our culture is going down the drain. I think liberals really need to get over themselves.

katherine2001 · May 4, 2014

Tammy said:
I don't believe it is the churches place to give handouts. Yes, there are emergency situations when handouts are necessary, but for the most part, real HELP is given when you teach someone HOW to make their own living. Teaching people financial classes, how to cut corners, how to cook so that don't go out to eat saves a TON of money....I am a firm believer in the principle taught in the Bible, "If you don't work, you don't eat."

Except that many of the poor do work and work full time. What about what Christ had to say in the last passage of Matthew 25, those who do not feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give drink to the thirsty, take in the stranger, etc. will not be in the Kingdom. That is how He is going to decide who is in the Kingdom. He said that if we do these things to the least of these, we did it to Him. Conversely, those that don't do them for others, we did not do it to Him.. Those He will send to everlasting punishment. That is according to Christ Himself. Those people who need us to help them may just be sent by God to give us a chance to do these things for others and thereby do it to Him. He is testing us to see what we will do. I find it interesting that when you give to the homeless, they often say "God bless you". We are also told to build our treasures in heaven. Building our treasures in heaven is the opposite of building them in the world. We build treasures in heaven by giving away our treasures on this earth. Maybe God gives us wealth so that we can use it to help others, not hog it for ourselves. Everything that we have is God's, not ours. God would never begrudge us giving our wealth to help others (Matthew 25 is the perfect example of that).

Almighty's humble servant · May 4, 2014

katherine2001 said:
Except that many of the poor do work and work full time. What about what Christ had to say in the last passage of Matthew 25, those who do not feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give drink to the thirsty, take in the stranger, etc. will not be in the Kingdom. That is how He is going to decide who is in the Kingdom. He said that if we do these things to the least of these, we did it to Him. Conversely, those that don't do them for others, we did not do it to Him.. Those He will send to everlasting punishment. That is according to Christ Himself. Those people who need us to help them may just be sent by God to give us a chance to do these things for others and thereby do it to Him. He is testing us to see what we will do. I find it interesting that when you give to the homeless, they often say "God bless you". We are also told to build our treasures in heaven. Building our treasures in heaven is the opposite of building them in the world. We build treasures in heaven by giving away our treasures on this earth. Maybe God gives us wealth so that we can use it to help others, not hog it for ourselves. Everything that we have is God's, not ours. God would never begrudge us giving our wealth to help others (Matthew 25 is the perfect example of that).

excellent post sister

And even if the homeless man or woman uses the handout for drugs/booze or whichever to kill their pain etc........

Is it my place to lay judgement on them when I have my own sin (contempt, pride, lust, greed, bigotry, covetous, etc etc etc) that I need to be in constant repentance of for the gift of grace.

Or even worse, if I predispose judgement before giving, assuming they will do the worst........

Skybringr · May 4, 2014

'Poverty' is relative.

For example-
Certain Ethiopians would be more then glad to be poor in the US. They wouldn't consider it poverty at all_

Almighty's humble servant · May 4, 2014

Skybringr said:
'Poverty' is relative.

For example-
Certain Ethiopians would be more then glad to be poor in the US. They wouldn't consider it poverty at all_

Your'e right. Yet, when we ask the tax base, which is primarily so-called Christians to send aid to Ethiopia, the askers are called globalists.

katherine2001 · May 4, 2014

And also, the reason that the poor in the US are better off than the poor in Ethiopia is the government aid given to them, which many Christians on the Right want to take away (while refusing to help the poor themselves). But if they choose not to help those who God puts in their way so that they can help the poor person (and therefore do it to Him, it is their loss. I don't think that saying that we helped the poor with our taxes is going to help much when we have to face Christ to answer for our lives, especially when we want those programs ended.

katherine2001 · May 4, 2014

Almighty's humble servant said:
Your'e right. Yet, when we ask the tax base, which is primarily so-called Christians to send aid to Ethiopia, the askers are called globalists.

Thy are called globalists, commies and liberals.

Albion · May 4, 2014

katherine2001 said:
And also, the reason that the poor in the US are better off than the poor in Ethiopia is the government aid given to them

Surely you aren't serious with a comment like that. The aid given by any government is only a function of the assets and productivity of the people who are fleeced for the money needed.

which many Christians on the Right want to take away (while refusing to help the poor themselves).

On the contrary, the point made by many on the Right (who I guess we're supposed to imagine are all churchgoing Christians) is that our government ought to help our own poor before buying favors from foreign governments. The conservatives in the USA are already giving more to charity than do liberals, as I hope you know.

Psalm 91 · May 4, 2014

katherine2001 said:
And also, the reason that the poor in the US are better off than the poor in Ethiopia is the government aid given to them, which many Christians on the Right want to take away (while refusing to help the poor themselves). But if they choose not to help those who God puts in their way so that they can help the poor person (and therefore do it to Him, it is their loss. I don't think that saying that we helped the poor with our taxes is going to help much when we have to face Christ to answer for our lives, especially when we want those programs ended.

First of all, very few people in Ethiopia get any of the government aid since they have corrupt leaders. And which Christians want to take away aid from Ethiopia while refusing to help the poor themselves? I've never heard a Christian say that they are against helping the poor in Ethiopia.

Psalm 91 · May 4, 2014

katherine2001 said:
Thy are called globalists, commies and liberals.

Sorry, but that is baloney. Those I refer to as "globalists" are the elites. I don't think most of the common man are "globalists". Communists don't give to anyone. Liberals like to create programs and many times steal the money through all of the red tape. Most of the people who truly help the poor, especially internationally, are Christians who support missionaries and doctors and nurses and organizations who dig wells so they can have clean water and those who teach them a type of work. Farming is hard because of the constant drought. Gov't international aid rarely gets to the people because there is so much corruption. If they create programs which really help someone, I'm all in favor of it. I'd much prefer, however, to support Christian organizations such as I described above as well as "Feed the Children."

HonestTruth · May 8, 2014

While some churches do help the poor, many do not. Some are just political organizations designed to slam Democrats and liberals while they put on a public face of pretending to be a bunch of do-goodies. A few years ago I had problems and asked the local chapter of the Christian Research Family Council ( a right wing group) for help in finding work and health care. All my emails were ignored. I have done the same with other groups and get similar non-responses because they are nothing more than Pharisees.

The one group that did help me years ago was the Salvation Army which is non political unlike those right wing hypocrites.

revanneosl · May 8, 2014

HonestTruth said:
The one group that did help me years ago was the Salvation Army which is non political unlike those right wing hypocrites.

It's a good thing you aren't gay or transgender, because the Salvation Army wouldn't have helped you then.

Skybringr · May 8, 2014

HonestTruth said:
While some churches do help the poor, many do not. Some are just political organizations designed to slam Democrats and liberals while they put on a public face of pretending to be a bunch of do-goodies. A few years ago I had problems and asked the local chapter of the Christian Research Family Council ( a right wing group) for help in finding work and health care. All my emails were ignored. I have done the same with other groups and get similar non-responses because they are nothing more than Pharisees.

The one group that did help me years ago was the Salvation Army which is non political unlike those right wing hypocrites.

There's no point in personally helping the poor when the poor are getting government aid.
It's mandatory to help the poor- you do it every time you receive a check!

I don't know what's so hard to understand about that. Are the Right hypocrites, or are liberals just loud, obnoxiously hard blown moral trumpets?

On another note, liberal and atheist are practically synonymous in this day and age. Take the cross away, and you'd never know the difference.
Liberal Christians? Read the signature- how are people who basically have no recognizance of any virtue not approved by the secular world going to call anyone anything?

Albion · May 8, 2014

HonestTruth said:
While some churches do help the poor, many do not. Some are just political organizations designed to slam Democrats and liberals while they put on a public face of pretending to be a bunch of do-goodies. A few years ago I had problems and asked the local chapter of the Christian Research Family Council ( a right wing group) for help in finding work and health care. All my emails were ignored. I have done the same with other groups and get similar non-responses because they are nothing more than Pharisees.

They probably can tell that you are hostile towards them and bent upon making some political point. I'm sure that every charitable organization feels it has to have some way of weeding out the cranks from the sincere inquirers.

By the way, there doesn't appear to be an organization named "Christian Family Research Council" but there is a "Family Research Council." Its purpose for existing is stated as follows: "founded in 1983 with the mission to champion marriage and family as the foundation of civilization, the seedbed of virtue, and the wellspring of society. FRC shapes public debate and formulates public policy that values human life and upholds the institutions of marriage and the family."

In other words, it's a research, educational, and public policy organization, NOT a charity. This might also account for why you didn't seem to have been genuine, as also might the fact that you lived nearby but didn't bother even to show up in person, sending an email instead. Few social agencies deal with unknown clients who say they are desperate for work but can't be troubled to put themselves out even to the extent of going to the office or phoning for an appointment.

RDKirk · May 8, 2014

Skybringr said:
If the government is supporting people with benefits such as welfare and food stamps, aid from churchgoers is already given through their taxes.

That means the argument in this thread is pointless- it's already mandatory for citizens to pay for these government programs, so what is church aid?

The right wing wants to move these things from gov't to church, because the more one leans toward gov't, the more power you to it. It becomes a mighty entity, which is contrary to the old American virtue of limited government.

You speak as though there were no taxes in ancient Rome. The ancient Roman government taxed heavily. The ancient Romans also had a government welfare program that provided free bread to Roman citizens.

So there is no difference between then and now--the economic interdependence--and financial redistribution--that Paul preached to the Corinthians should be what we're doing today.

The Body of Christ right at this moment has all the resources necessary to support the Body of Christ. We wealthy Christians right now have enough money held tight in our fists to feed, clothe, and house every Christian in the world.

I'll tell you what the real sham is- the left wing's continued act of making the virtues of Christianity worthless and void, acting as if secular notions are the key to social success in which Christianity always comes second or nothing at all.
The left wing is responsible for the sad state of Christendom today.

Incredible fiddlesticks, as well as blasphemy.

I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.-- Matthew 16

If the Church in America is in a sad state, it's our own fault--the Church in America is the Leodicean church.

The Christian Conservative Right Is A Sham.

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