EternalDragon
Counselor
You can post all kinds of opinions, but sun up to sun down has always meant a 24 hour day, unless you want to redefine our days somehow.
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One tiny problem Yom doesn't always means days literal days. The grass were baby grass. There things didn't happen in 6 days
You can post all kinds of opinions, but sun up to sun down has always meant a 24 hour day, unless you want to redefine our days somehow.
SayaOtonashi has gone through three posts showing you how language is used in the bible. You need to deal with what she says rather than just dismiss it off hand.You can post all kinds of opinions, but sun up to sun down has always meant a 24 hour day, unless you want to redefine our days somehow.
How do you know that the Bible isn't one of Satan's lies... and you''ve bought the lie?
Indeed.Right. I always thought the yom debate was a bit of a red herring. It is clear that in the creation stories, the days are 24 hours. No use trying to redefine them as long epocs of time. However, it is just a story... intended to be read as a story, and not literal, so in the end, the distinction doesn't matter.
Why is that strange?Even though for three days there was no sun up or sun down to give you 24 hours a day, strange that.
How do you know what you think is the Holy Spirit isn't one of Satan's lies?
Why?The earth rotating wouldn't make it day without the sun.
The biblical mean of a day was the period from sunset to sunsetWhy?
We are talking about what day means in the bible, not computer modelsAnd let's make this harder on your computer models:
You are confusing the meaning of day in the bible with a modern definition of day as 24 hours which requires a clock to exist to have any meaning. The fact we also talk of days on other planets being different lengths of time shows the real meaning of day is still understood in relation to the sun. You would also find your anachronistic stopwatch does not match the rotation of the earth. After 24 hours on your stopwatch, the earth would have rotated 1.00583 times, because the real earth is also orbiting the sun. As Phineas Fogg discovered, you gain an extra day doing a full circuit. Literal biblical days need the sun.Suppose God created a stopwatch and the [rotating] earth ... nothing else.
Question:
After the stopwatch runs 24 hours, has one day gone by on the earth?
(And assuming I'm going to get an honest answer from you, my next question is going to be even harder.)
Okay.The biblical mean of a day was the period from sunset to sunset
And "day" is mentioned in the Bible, before the sun even exists.We are talking about what day means in the bible, not computer models
Now you're going to invoke the entire Bible?You are confusing the meaning of day in the bible ...
Same as in Genesis 1.... with a modern definition of day as 24 hours which requires ...
God is the clock.... which requires a clock to exist to have any meaning.
We're not discussing what we call a day on other planets though, are we?The fact we also talk of days on other planets being different lengths of time shows the real meaning of day is still understood in relation to the sun.
Good ... then this is the place to ask you my even harder question:You would also find your anachronistic stopwatch does not match the rotation of the earth. After 24 hours on your stopwatch, the earth would have rotated 1.00583 times, because the real earth is also orbiting the sun.
Good for him.As Phineas Fogg discovered, you gain an extra day doing a full circuit.
No they do not.Literal biblical days need the sun.
Which is evidence it isn't talking literally.Okay.
And "day" is mentioned in the Bible, before the sun even exists.
No, I said the opposite.So are we on the same page as far as a day not needing the sun?
I am talking about what the word meant to the people in biblical times that it was written for.Now you're going to invoke the entire Bible?
I thought we were discussing wheter a day can exist prior to Genesis 1:14?
Gensis 1 doesn't say anything about days being 14 hours long,Same as in Genesis 1.
We invented the hours, minutes and seconds your stopwatch uses. In fact we invented the concept of an hour being a fixed measure of time rather than 1/12 of the time from sunrise to sunset which is longer in the winter than summer.God is the clock.
We are looking at what what day means, you want to use the modern meaning of the term instead of what the biblical term meant. I'm telling you what the modern word means.We're not discussing what we call a day on other planets though, are we?
You can't just look at days one, two and three in isolation because they were written in OT times in language people from those times understood. You want to read it from a 21st century perspective picking and choosing which 21st century concepts you want to use. I am happy to ignore modern astronomy if you leave your stopwatch and modern horology.We're discussing Day One, Day Two, and Day Three of the Creation Week.
Nothing beyond that.
Right?
Or are you trying to confuse this conversation by weaving around all throughout the Bible and the solar system?
Sure as long as the sun crosses the sky to the place it sets every day (Joshua 10:13 and Psalm 19:5-6) and hurries at night to the place it rises Eccl 1:5.Good ... then this is the place to ask you my even harder question:
Suppose the earth isn't even rotating?
Could a day transpire?
So you just ignore the role the earth's orbit around the sun plays in the length of our 24 hour day?Good for him.
Non literal descriptions of time do not involve literal ageing.No they do not.
Are you suggesting the earth won't get a day older until the sun arrives?
The biblical mean of a day was the period from sunset to sunset
We are talking about what day means in the bible, not computer models
You are confusing the meaning of day in the bible with a modern definition of day as 24 hours which requires a clock to exist to have any meaning. The fact we also talk of days on other planets being different lengths of time shows the real meaning of day is still understood in relation to the sun. You would also find your anachronistic stopwatch does not match the rotation of the earth. After 24 hours on your stopwatch, the earth would have rotated 1.00583 times, because the real earth is also orbiting the sun. As Phineas Fogg discovered, you gain an extra day doing a full circuit. Literal biblical days need the sun.
Right. I always thought the yom debate was a bit of a red herring. It is clear that in the creation stories, the days are 24 hours. No use trying to redefine them as long epocs of time. However, it is just a story... intended to be read as a story, and not literal, so in the end, the distinction doesn't matter.
It was always considered literal history by the Jews.
Genesis contains a full genealogy back to Adam.
It was always considered literal history by the Jews.
It was considered literal history by other writers of the bible and even Jesus himself. It is written in literal Hebrew style.
Nothing at all indicates it was "just a story".
Assyrian, the Hebrew usage of YOM which includes a sun up and sun down, (God was the light on those first few days) always means 24 hours. There is really nothing else to refute about it.
Wrong.The earth rotating wouldn't make it day without the sun.
You certainly didn't have any sun up or sun down on the first three days before there was a sun. That is why you had people in the early church who thought it meant the days were literal. Where does it say God was the light on the first days? God said let there be light, not let me be light. You have a clearly non literal day in Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.Assyrian, the Hebrew usage of YOM which includes a sun up and sun down, (God was the light on those first few days) always means 24 hours. There is really nothing else to refute about it.
Wrong.
The earth rotating wouldn't make it day without a source of light. Remember, Light was created in the beginning. An earth in rotation would have day and night regardless of what the light source was called. It doesn't matter that there was no sun, there was a source of light which caused the evening andf the morning to be the first day.
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