The Celibate Thread

Dark Winter · Feb 27, 2014

but then sexual purity would include those who are married.

Nanopants · Feb 28, 2014

Dark Winter said:
but then sexual purity would include those who are married.

^and sex in that case.

K9_Trainer · Feb 28, 2014

Dark Winter said:
why can a virtue not be easily obtained?

except to point out one's own added virtue, I do not see the gain in celibacy.

I was wondering this myself.

I think some "virtues" can come more naturally and easily to some people, depending on their personality, or upbringing.

Strider1002 · Feb 28, 2014

"The two become one" when married. Their bodies belong to each other. So, married sex is pure. Unmarried is not.

Dark Winter · Feb 28, 2014

some might find virtue comes much easier once wed.

Paulie079 · Feb 28, 2014

Nanopants said:
But if one confuses it for "sexual purity," then it's possible to completely miss "purity of heart." Example: the woman caught in the act of adultery. Jesus (exemplifying purity of heart) behaved much differently than those who wanted to stone her (exemplifying injustice and hypocrisy). Their concern for sexual purity was apparently of no value with regard to virtue in that case.

Right, because purity of heart begets sexual purity. The biggest difference between Jesus and the Pharisees there is that the Pharisees were only concerned about the action, which is why they could follow the law so well by their own estimation but still had wicked hearts. But with Jesus we are made righteous through his death and resurrection, and the law (or God's commands to us in the Bible) are given to us as boundaries and to show us our need for Christ. At that point it should still be our aim to pursue obedience to God through keeping our hearts, minds, and bodies pure, but we do it in the freedom of His grace that we can use as a springboard that propels us into joyful obedience rather than begrudging obedience.

MarkSB · Feb 28, 2014

Dark Winter · Feb 28, 2014

so then all virtue would be easy?

MarkSB · Feb 28, 2014

Dark Winter said:
so then all virtue would be easy?

No, as K9 trainer said I think it depends on the person and their upbringing, and their personality traits and own personal weaknesses.

But again, I think at some point in their Christian walk a believer will face some moral circumstances which are difficult for them to overcome.

Nanopants · Feb 28, 2014

Dark Winter said:
so then all virtue would be easy?

The short answer is that it is God's Spirit that actually purifies the heart by faith (Acts 15:9), and that's possibly more easily said than done, but it shows that virtue is not of or from us, but rather from God, literally.

Dark Winter · Feb 28, 2014

Nanopants said:
The short answer is that it is God's Spirit that actually purifies the heart by faith (Acts 15:9), and that's possibly more easily said than done, but it shows that virtue is not of or from us, but rather from God, literally.

I agree.

Paulie079 · Feb 28, 2014

Nanopants said:
The short answer is that it is God's Spirit that actually purifies the heart by faith (Acts 15:9), and that's possibly more easily said than done, but it shows that virtue is not of or from us, but rather from God, literally.

Yeah, most definitely. It is a gradual process, though, and we are active participants in it, so there is a sense in which we are striving towards righteousness even as we look to the Holy Spirit for His sanctifying work and strength. And the great thing is that even when we do fail, there is grace to continue to propel us toward greater obedience and Christlikeness.

MarkSB · Feb 28, 2014

Paulie079 said:
Right, because purity of heart begets sexual purity. The biggest difference between Jesus and the Pharisees there is that the Pharisees were only concerned about the action, which is why they could follow the law so well by their own estimation but still had wicked hearts. But with Jesus we are made righteous through his death and resurrection, and the law (or God's commands to us in the Bible) are given to us as boundaries and to show us our need for Christ. At that point it should still be our aim to pursue obedience to God through keeping our hearts, minds, and bodies pure, but we do it in the freedom of His grace that we can use as a springboard that propels us into joyful obedience rather than begrudging obedience.

RenewedInHim · Feb 28, 2014

MarkSB said:
Yeah, I'm kind of wondering if any of them are Yoopers.

Nope, I'm in the Flint area. But I've been Up North many times.

Kingsdotter · Feb 28, 2014

Nanopants said:
The short answer is that it is God's Spirit that actually purifies the heart by faith (Acts 15:9), and that's possibly more easily said than done, but it shows that virtue is not of or from us, but rather from God, literally.

While I agree that virtue is from God, the fact remains that there are different abilities given by Him. Some are celebates because they were born that way, others are because life experiences made them that way, some have made the choice for the sake of the Kingdom. For those of us who remain celebates to serve God, it is a gift, it is an ability given by God for Christian service. Reading through the posts on this thread, it is clear that many cannot accept living a life without sex. This teaching does not apply to everyone but only to those who God has given it.

Saucy · Feb 28, 2014

Yeah but Jesus told the woman at the well, who had slept with five different men (and He called the husbands) to go and sin no more. So obviously what she was doing was sinning

Nanopants · Feb 28, 2014

^I think you may be confusing two different stories, but anyways, there's no reason given to assume that the situation is so black and white. Jesus didn't command either the woman caught in adultery or the woman at the well to make themselves eunuchs. IOW, the situation may not be so stringent so as to force a person into a state of asexuality in order to avoid fornication or adultery.

We're admonished to work out our own salvation and to mind our own business, and there should be no reason to be concerned with anyone's private life (even sins) as long as there is no issue that affects a community like a church. Further, to set one's self up as the inspector or boss of one's neighbor's private parts and sexuality, simply because the bible says such and such, is tantamount to religious molestation, in my opinion.

Strider1002 · Feb 28, 2014

We're not commanding you to be celibate, Nano. Do as you wish

Saucy · Feb 28, 2014

You are wrong. As brothers and sisters in Christ, we are called to approach one another when we are caught in sin. You may not think you are causing others harm because of what you do in the privacy of your own bedroom, but you are. You are causing the person you are sleeping with to sin as well AND by condoning and defending your position, you may be positioning others to sin. You may not understand how, because you are so entrenched in your own sin that you don't care, but there it is.

Matthew 18:15-22
"If your brother sins go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed.
If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as Gentile and a tax collector."

Click to expand...

2 Timothy 2:24-25
The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged.
With gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
And they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the world; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

Galatians 6:1
Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.
Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.
For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.

James 5:19-20
My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

ImperatorWall · Feb 28, 2014

I don't find in myself the desire or ability to throw stones.

If someone is living in sin, or a fellow believer has fallen into sin, they do not, nor does God, need me to go all fire and brimstone on them. Nor am I responsible for their choices. But at the same time, I will not condone immorality, and they will know this of me by my actions and words.

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