In this thread I would like to focus on whether or not certain parts of the book of Revelation are literal or symbolic. For example, will the entire ocean literally turn to blood, as Revelation 16 claims? Or is that symbolic for something else? Personally, I think that either side can make a good case, but I will go ahead and present my current opinion on this issue (warning: this may be subject to change).
I take the book of Revelation as a mixed metaphor. So I believe that some events are literal and others are symbolic. I also think this about the plagues. For example, it would be extremely difficult to imagine that this plague is literal:
"10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter." Rev. 8:10-11
Firstly, if a literal star were to actually fall into the earth obviously the entire planet would be vaporized. But suppose John is describing a comet or meteor or asteroid here, which would certainly look like a star. The problem is that it is extremely difficult to get the thing to fall on 1/3 of the rivers and 1/3 of the fountains of waters.
For this reason, it might be best to take this plague as a representation of nuclear war. It is easy to see how nuclear war could contaminate water supplies and cause many people to die.
However, there are other plagues that I believe are definitely literal. For example, one of the causes of several of the plagues is said to be death (the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues...etc.). Obviously, then, something is killing these people. Again, as a result of the plagues, the remnant 'blaspheme God', which means that they are in serious pain and agony and know that God is causing the plagues. This means that horrible events have to be happening, which could mean that the plagues are literal. Here is an example:
"3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy." Rev. 16:3-6
Notice that if this plague is not literal, then it negates the very purpose of the plague. The point is that they have killed the saints/prophets (this is verified by Revelation 6 - the 5th seal) and now they ironically must drink blood as well. If this is symbolic, it negates the entire point of the plague.
Another argument that the plagues are literal is that Revelation is heavily based off of Exodus and the Exodus plagues are literal.
One final example from Revelation before we move on:
"10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds." Rev. 16:10-11
Again, it is obvious that these people are suffering terrible pain. "Their sores" refers back to Rev. 16:2 where those who have received the mark of the beast get a 'noisome and grievous' sore. They also blaspheme God because of their pains and their sores, pointing to a literal interpretation as well. Very interesting stuff.
Finally, I think that if we look at the words of Jesus Christ then we will see that many of the events in the book of Revelation are literal. We will look at Luke 21 (after the 70 AD portion) so people cannot claim these events are referring directly to 70 AD:
"24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory." Luke 21:24-27
Note that verse 24 describes the 70 AD destruction, so everything Christ is talking about from verse 25 onward refers to the time of the end. It is worth studying this verse carefully with a concordance and with other Bible versions because I believe it points toward a literal interpretation of many of the events in the book of Revelation. First, a quick Greek word study:
Here is Vine's entry on "perplexity": akin to A, No. 1, is translated "perplexity" in Luk 21:25 (lit., "at a loss for a way," a, negative, poros, "a way, resource"), of the distress of nations, finding no solution to their embarrassments; papyri illustrations are in the sense of being at one's wit's end, at a loss how to proceed, without resources.
So the nations are 'at a loss for a way' because of the events transpiring on the planet. Men's hearts fail them for fear; they are 'looking after' those things which are coming on the earth. Christ also mentions the sea and waves roaring, pointing to literal events. Here are several other versions:
"25 There will be [p]signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the [q]world; for the powers of [r]the heavens will be shaken." Lu. 21:25-26 (NASB)
"25 There will be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars, and on the earth distress among nations confused by the roaring of the sea and the waves. 26 People will faint from fear and foreboding of what is coming upon the world, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken." (NRSV)
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We could continue and talk about many other passages in Revelation, but I think this will be enough to start out with. I think if we cross-reference these things to the Old Testament we will also find that they are literal. Please feel free to post passages on Revelation and discuss whether or not you think they are figurative or literal. Let me know what you think. Thanks!
I take the book of Revelation as a mixed metaphor. So I believe that some events are literal and others are symbolic. I also think this about the plagues. For example, it would be extremely difficult to imagine that this plague is literal:
"10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter." Rev. 8:10-11
Firstly, if a literal star were to actually fall into the earth obviously the entire planet would be vaporized. But suppose John is describing a comet or meteor or asteroid here, which would certainly look like a star. The problem is that it is extremely difficult to get the thing to fall on 1/3 of the rivers and 1/3 of the fountains of waters.
For this reason, it might be best to take this plague as a representation of nuclear war. It is easy to see how nuclear war could contaminate water supplies and cause many people to die.
However, there are other plagues that I believe are definitely literal. For example, one of the causes of several of the plagues is said to be death (the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues...etc.). Obviously, then, something is killing these people. Again, as a result of the plagues, the remnant 'blaspheme God', which means that they are in serious pain and agony and know that God is causing the plagues. This means that horrible events have to be happening, which could mean that the plagues are literal. Here is an example:
"3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy." Rev. 16:3-6
Notice that if this plague is not literal, then it negates the very purpose of the plague. The point is that they have killed the saints/prophets (this is verified by Revelation 6 - the 5th seal) and now they ironically must drink blood as well. If this is symbolic, it negates the entire point of the plague.
Another argument that the plagues are literal is that Revelation is heavily based off of Exodus and the Exodus plagues are literal.
One final example from Revelation before we move on:
"10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds." Rev. 16:10-11
Again, it is obvious that these people are suffering terrible pain. "Their sores" refers back to Rev. 16:2 where those who have received the mark of the beast get a 'noisome and grievous' sore. They also blaspheme God because of their pains and their sores, pointing to a literal interpretation as well. Very interesting stuff.
Finally, I think that if we look at the words of Jesus Christ then we will see that many of the events in the book of Revelation are literal. We will look at Luke 21 (after the 70 AD portion) so people cannot claim these events are referring directly to 70 AD:
"24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory." Luke 21:24-27
Note that verse 24 describes the 70 AD destruction, so everything Christ is talking about from verse 25 onward refers to the time of the end. It is worth studying this verse carefully with a concordance and with other Bible versions because I believe it points toward a literal interpretation of many of the events in the book of Revelation. First, a quick Greek word study:
Here is Vine's entry on "perplexity": akin to A, No. 1, is translated "perplexity" in Luk 21:25 (lit., "at a loss for a way," a, negative, poros, "a way, resource"), of the distress of nations, finding no solution to their embarrassments; papyri illustrations are in the sense of being at one's wit's end, at a loss how to proceed, without resources.
So the nations are 'at a loss for a way' because of the events transpiring on the planet. Men's hearts fail them for fear; they are 'looking after' those things which are coming on the earth. Christ also mentions the sea and waves roaring, pointing to literal events. Here are several other versions:
"25 There will be [p]signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the [q]world; for the powers of [r]the heavens will be shaken." Lu. 21:25-26 (NASB)
"25 There will be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars, and on the earth distress among nations confused by the roaring of the sea and the waves. 26 People will faint from fear and foreboding of what is coming upon the world, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken." (NRSV)
----------------------------
We could continue and talk about many other passages in Revelation, but I think this will be enough to start out with. I think if we cross-reference these things to the Old Testament we will also find that they are literal. Please feel free to post passages on Revelation and discuss whether or not you think they are figurative or literal. Let me know what you think. Thanks!
