The Atheist's dilemma

Deidre32 · Jul 18, 2014

The interesting thing about atheism, is I'm finally with no dilemma. I have nothing to prove to anyone. As a Christian, I felt that whenever questioned, I had to defend my stance, my faith, my beliefs. I had the dilemma of helping people see what I saw.

Now, I have nothing to prove, because there is nothing to prove. Faith is a belief of things unseen, and unproven. Even as a Christian, my dilemma was that I couldn't prove God's existence. My belief, my bible, my life...that was not proof of God's existence.

So, to me, there is no 'dilemma' that an atheist finds him/herself in. Not for me, anyway. lol

GoldenBoy89 · Jul 18, 2014

Deidre32 said:
The interesting thing about atheism, is I'm finally with no dilemma. I have nothing to prove to anyone. As a Christian, I felt that whenever questioned, I had to defend my stance, my faith, my beliefs. I had the dilemma of helping people see what I saw.

Now, I have nothing to prove, because there is nothing to prove. Faith is a belief of things unseen, and unproven. Even as a Christian, my dilemma was that I couldn't prove God's existence. My belief, my bible, my life...that was not proof of God's existence.

So, to me, there is no 'dilemma' that an atheist finds him/herself in. Not for me, anyway. lol

^Exactly this!

It's such a liberating feeling to know that the claims of these ancient, man-made institutions don't phase me one bit.

I know what some are thinking... "You just wait and see, atheist. You'll be sorry."

Yeah? Well maybe you and I will both be sorry when we have to answer to Zeus... To me, your God is no different than the Roman or Greek pantheon gods. Just ancient, human superstitions. I can't help it if I feel that way.

Received · Jul 18, 2014

Well, it's a bit more complicated. When you're a theist, sure, you have to make a good argument for why you believe what you do. When you're an atheist, you don't so much have to prove why you don't believe things as why you believe certain philosophies behind your atheism, like rationalism, scientism, empiricism, whatever. So there is a sort of burden of proof on atheists. It's just not intrinsic to atheism, but rather that philosophy you think underlies and justifies your atheism.

Deidre32 · Jul 19, 2014

Received said:
Well, it's a bit more complicated. When you're a theist, sure, you have to make a good argument for why you believe what you do. When you're an atheist, you don't so much have to prove why you don't believe things as why you believe certain philosophies behind your atheism, like rationalism, scientism, empiricism, whatever. So there is a sort of burden of proof on atheists. It's just not intrinsic to atheism, but rather that philosophy you think underlies and justifies your atheism.

It's complicated perhaps to you, because you have chosen to believe this about atheism. Atheism isn't a complex philosophy, and that is why I like it. It has set me free from the trappings of what I once believed, and felt I needed to prove to others.

Just another view.

Deidre32 · Jul 19, 2014

GoldenBoy89 said:
^Exactly this!

It's such a liberating feeling to know that the claims of these ancient, man-made institutions don't phase me one bit.

I know what some are thinking... "You just wait and see, atheist. You'll be sorry."

Yeah? Well maybe you and I will both be sorry when we have to answer to Zeus... To me, your God is no different than the Roman or Greek pantheon gods. Just ancient, human superstitions. I can't help it if I feel that way.

No one is going to be sorry. I have a feeling if a god exists, he is absolutely beyond our wildest comprehension. I don't want to know a god. I want him to be beyond my comprehension. If we can define god, how godly could be really be?

*thinking out loud, sorry*

Aldebaran · Jul 19, 2014

Deidre32 said:
No one is going to be sorry. I have a feeling if a god exists, he is absolutely beyond our wildest comprehension. I don't want to know a god. I want him to be beyond my comprehension. If we can define god, how godly could be really be?

*thinking out loud, sorry*

You're right that God is beyond our wildest comprehension. That is partly why Christ took human form and lived a human life: in order to bring Himself closer to us. By putting his spirit into us, it is possible for us to know him. If He hadn't done that, it would be easy for us to say that he doesn't understand us and can't relate to us any more than we can relate to a gnat.

Received · Jul 19, 2014

Deidre32 said:
It's complicated perhaps to you, because you have chosen to believe this about atheism. Atheism isn't a complex philosophy, and that is why I like it. It has set me free from the trappings of what I once believed, and felt I needed to prove to others.

Just another view.

Theism is complicated to you, because you chose to believe this about theism. That's a not very helpful answer. Atheism isn't a philosophy; it's supported by complex philosophies. Everything is supported by complex philosophies if you dig deeply enough, so it's not about complex or not complex.

Deidre32 · Jul 19, 2014

Received said:
Theism is complicated to you, because you chose to believe this about theism. That's a not very helpful answer. Atheism isn't a philosophy; it's supported by complex philosophies. Everything is supported by complex philosophies if you dig deeply enough, so it's not about complex or not complex.

You used the word "complicated," I was just following what you were saying. Lol

But, to your point, I guess a better way for me to put it is that I don't feel the need to cling to hearsay about a god or being or higher power that may or may not exist. I don't see the benefit to pretending that such hearsay is true, so I can have a false sense of comfort and security.

Aldebaran · Jul 19, 2014

Deidre32 said:
You used the word "complicated," I was just following what you were saying. Lol

But, to your point, I guess a better way for me to put it is that I don't feel the need to cling to hearsay about a god or being or higher power that may or may not exist. I don't see the benefit to pretending that such hearsay is true, so I can have a false sense of comfort and security.

Deidre, have you ever prayed to God that he would make Himself real to you? I've heard many Christians who were once athiests prayed this way, and God did indeed make Himself real to them. I don't know in what way He would do this, because everyone is different. For some people it's more personal than it is for others. But if God wants you to know Him, then I can hardly see Him refusing such a request.

Deidre32 · Jul 19, 2014

halfsaved said:
Deidre, have you ever prayed to God that he would make Himself real to you? I've heard many Christians who were once athiests prayed this way, and God did indeed make Himself real to them. I don't know in what way He would do this, because everyone is different. For some people it's more personal than it is for others. But if God wants you to know Him, then I can hardly see Him refusing such a request.

Yes, I have, and I don't discount the feelings that I had at one time as 'real.' But, were they just my feelings -- in actuality my own wishful thinking as to what I had 'hoped' a god might be? :/

Aldebaran · Jul 19, 2014

Deidre32 said:
Yes, I have, and I don't discount the feelings that I had at one time as 'real.' But, were they just my feelings -- in actuality my own wishful thinking as to what I had 'hoped' a god might be? :/

Wasn't there anything other than feelings to rely on? Weren't there any events that happened in your life that indicated God was there and watching over you?

Deidre32 · Jul 19, 2014

halfsaved said:
Wasn't there anything other than feelings to rely on? Weren't there any events that happened in your life that indicated God was there and watching over you?

It's interesting you bring this up. Suppose someone is on their deathbed, and as a religious person, you pray for him/her. That person dies. You chalk it up to God's will. If that person survives, and gets better as time goes on, and lives a long life, that too is God's will.

I used to see things like that, but was that my own wishful thinking? Was it coincidence? Can't good things happen for those who don't believe in a god? Yes, they can. And they do.

I just think life rolls on, good and bad, for everyone. Atheist and theist alike. A theist chalks up the good to God, and the atheist chalks it up as that's just life...

Interesting no? I'm not trying to sway your view, certainly. I'm merely stating how I tend to view it all, now.

Jeremy E Walker · Jul 19, 2014

Deidre32 said:
It's interesting you bring this up. Suppose someone is on their deathbed, and as a religious person, you pray for him/her. That person dies. You chalk it up to God's will. If that person survives, and gets better as time goes on, and lives a long life, that too is God's will.

I used to see things like that, but was that my own wishful thinking? Was it coincidence? Can't good things happen for those who don't believe in a god? Yes, they can. And they do.

I just think life rolls on, good and bad, for everyone. Atheist and theist alike. A theist chalks up the good to God, and the atheist chalks it up as that's just life...

Interesting no? I'm not trying to sway your view, certainly. I'm merely stating how I tend to view it all, now.

For the Christian, all things work together for good.

In my life there is no bad in the sense of something that can outweigh the good.

For the one who sees life from the perspective of eternity, nothing that she endures or suffers is of any comparison with the glory that will be revealed when God's Kingdom Comes.

Too many people look at Christianity with one eye closed. To see it for what it is, one must see the whole picture. Too often we all miss the forest for the trees.

I assure you that it was not wishful thinking that caused me to abandon and loathe that life I once lived.

Deidre32 · Jul 19, 2014

Jeremy E Walker said:
For the Christian, all things work together for good.

In my life there is no bad in the sense of something that can outweigh the good.

For the one who sees life from the perspective of eternity, nothing that she endures or suffers is of any comparison with the glory that will be revealed when God's Kingdom Comes.

Too many people look at Christianity with one eye closed. To see it for what it is, one must see the whole picture. Too often we all miss the forest for the trees.

I assure you that it was not wishful thinking that caused me to abandon and loathe that life I once lived.

I know your story a little. Not all atheists live lives that are unhealthy, and immoral, though. Just like not all Christians live 'moral' lives. My life is actually not much different than when I was following Christianity...I just don't follow Christianity, now. I just don't believe what I once did, but I still believe and hold true, much of the values I once did, such as generosity, kindness, and compassion for others. Serving others. My way of life isn't all that much different, I just don't believe that a god is governing my life, is all.

Jeremy E Walker · Jul 19, 2014

Deidre32 said:
I know your story a little. Not all atheists live lives that are unhealthy, and immoral, though. Just like not all Christians live 'moral' lives. My life is actually not much different than when I was following Christianity...I just don't follow Christianity, now. I just don't believe what I once did, but I still believe and hold true, much of the values I once did, such as generosity, kindness, and compassion for others. Serving others. My way of life isn't all that much different, I just don't believe that a god is governing my life, is all.

Double post

Jeremy E Walker · Jul 19, 2014

Deidre32 said:
I know your story a little. Not all atheists live lives that are unhealthy, and immoral, though. Just like not all Christians live 'moral' lives. My life is actually not much different than when I was following Christianity...I just don't follow Christianity, now. I just don't believe what I once did, but I still believe and hold true, much of the values I once did, such as generosity, kindness, and compassion for others. Serving others. My way of life isn't all that much different, I just don't believe that a god is governing my life, is all.

I do not see God as governing my life at all.

He has awesome, unfathomable plans for me, but He does not "govern" me. I choose to either live for God or not.

The beautiful thing about it all is that you like me, have a choice. God wants to have a relationship with all of us but He does not want, yea, He cannot force Himself upon us.

So that is the beauty of it and also the horror of it. The horror is that some will reject this Supreme Good.

Deidre32 · Jul 19, 2014

Jeremy E Walker said:
I do not see God as governing my life at all.

ok

He has awesome, unfathomable plans for me, but He does not "govern" me. I choose to either live for God or not.

because you choose to believe in his/its existence.

The beautiful thing about it all is that you like me, have a choice. God wants to have a relationship with all of us but He does not want, yea, He cannot force Himself upon us.

christianity is pretty much the only faith that teaches about having a personal relationship with Jesus. so, if one is Muslim, do you believe that such a person has less of a relationship with a god than you? (this is the problem i have with all religions. they seem manufactured to fit what WE wish to believe, not necessarily based off real truths) Which is why it's called 'faith.' Faith doesn't require evidence.

So that is the beauty of it and also the horror of it. The horror is that some will reject this Supreme Good.

because if i choose to not believe, something bad will happen to me? do you believe as you do out of fear?

Jeremy E Walker · Jul 19, 2014

No one that has an intimate, living, loving, personal relationship with Jesus Christ would say that they feel they are "governed" by Him as if they are some slave that reluctantly lives to dispatch orders from his master.

The living, the life is one that is fresh and new and fragrant with the love of Christ that throws its light and glory over all....

Jeremy E Walker · Jul 19, 2014

Deidre32 said:
because you choose to believe in his/its existence.

That is correct.

Deidre32 said:
christianity is pretty much the only faith that teaches about having a personal relationship with Jesus.

I agree.

Deidre32 said:
so, if one is Muslim, do you believe that such a person has less of a relationship with a god than you?

If a person is a Muslim, they do not have a relationship with God at all.

Deidre32 said:
(this is the problem i have with all religions. they seem manufactured to fit what WE wish to believe, not necessarily based off real truths)

Then you should have no problem with Christianity! For who would wish to believe they were a wretched sinner hopelessly lost and unable to do anything to earn God's favor?

Deidre32 said:
Which is why it's called 'faith.' Faith doesn't require evidence.

I required evidence before I became a Christian and I am also a man of faith so this is just false.

Deidre32 said:
because if i choose to not believe, something bad will happen to me? do you believe as you do out of fear?

I fear God. That is not why I trust Him though. I trust Him because He has proven Himself trustworthy. I trust Him because He loves me so much that He would subject Himself to shame, humiliation, and crucifixion for me.

Deidre32 · Jul 19, 2014

Jeremy E Walker said:
No one that has an intimate, living, loving, personal relationship with Jesus Christ would say that they feel they are "governed" by Him as if they are some slave that reluctantly lives to dispatch orders from his master.

The living, the life is one that is fresh and new and fragrant with the love of Christ that throws its light and glory over all....

considering that hell is the punishment for those who do not do as you suggest, i'd say that sounds pretty intimidating. like one is being governed. but, you may see it differently. i once did, too.

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