The apple as a symbol for our gaining an ego

[louisealex]

The story of Adam and Eve is for me, and I imagine many others, an extremely beautiful way of describing our gaining an ego. A separateness from our oneness with God.
When the apple was eaten Adam and Eve became aware of their nakedness, they gained fear, death and shame. Division from the oneness. Was there ever such an actual place as the Garden of Eden or is it just a metaphor for a state of conciousness. One that we can regain through the grace of God.
When enlightened there is no longer death and there is no good and evil.
There are many ways to regain our original state, but the message of Love is inseparable. Not divisive love of our friends and family but universal love for everything. The love of God.
Are there many Christians and Jewish people who believe this too?

 

[Eudaimonist]

The story of Adam and Eve is for me, and I imagine many others, an extremely beautiful way of describing our gaining an ego.

I see it more as a metaphor for exchanging pre-adolescence for adolescence. One changes psychologically. The change does present new challenges.

Was there ever such an actual place as the Garden of Eden

Around 1000 BC or so wealthy kings in that region had gardens in which they believed some divinity walked invisibly. The original story on which the familiar story was based was probably about a king named "Adam" who was expelled from his garden for tasting of the wrong "fruit" of power during his reign. Perhaps his garden was taken from him, or destroyed, by a conqueror. The story was later modified to suit other religious purposes.

When enlightened there is no longer death and there is no good and evil.

Nietzsche would approve.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[LoAmmi]

The story of Adam and Eve is for me, and I imagine many others, an extremely beautiful way of describing our gaining an ego. A separateness from our oneness with God.
When the apple was eaten Adam and Eve became aware of their nakedness, they gained fear, death and shame. Division from the oneness. Was there ever such an actual place as the Garden of Eden or is it just a metaphor for a state of conciousness. One that we can regain through the grace of God.
When enlightened there is no longer death and there is no good and evil.
There are many ways to regain our original state, but the message of Love is inseparable. Not divisive love of our friends and family but universal love for everything. The love of God.
Are there many Christians and Jewish people who believe this too?

As a quick aside, the fruit is never referred to anywhere as an apple. That is a cultural thing.

A lot of classical Jewish thinkers believe that the episode represents the "growing up" of mankind. We became aware of good and evil, we were put out of a place where we were protected completely and placed into a world where we needed to fend for ourselves. This is much like what happens when children become adults and have to make a life for themselves.

 

[Eudaimonist]

A lot of classical Jewish thinkers believe that the episode represents the "growing up" of mankind. We became aware of good and evil, we were put out of a place where we were protected completely and placed into a world where we needed to fend for ourselves. This is much like what happens when children become adults and have to make a life for themselves.

That makes a lot of sense.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[louisealex]

Very interesting. The development of ego can be seen as growing up, for we are born egoless and develop it as we grow older. I just took a little look around the idea of enlightenment and Judaism to see if there is a concept of an egoless self...a fully awakened self that we can 'return' to, and found many references to it in Kabbalist writings. I feel very lacking in knowledge on Judaism for I don't even know if all Jewish religious followers believe in the Kabbalah or if it is seen as an esoteric extra, followed only by some.

 

[LoAmmi]

Very interesting. The development of ego can be seen as growing up, for we are born egoless and develop it as we grow older. I just took a little look around the idea of enlightenment and Judaism to see if there is a concept of an egoless self...a fully awakened self that we can 'return' to, and found many references to it in Kabbalist writings. I feel very lacking in knowledge on Judaism for I don't even know if all Jewish religious followers believe in the Kabbalah or if it is seen as an esoteric extra, followed only by some.

Definitely an extra only followed by some. I know plenty that do not like it or deal with it at all.

 

[louisealex]

Ah, thanks for that.

I will tell you what got me thinking about the Bible and enlightenment. I read the gnostic texts, Phillip's and Mary Magdalene's and it seemed apparent from these (to me) that Jesus was talking about enlightenment.

For myself nothing has been said so far to dissuade me from my understanding of the story of Adam and Eve, just a wonderful way of talking about the development of the ego as a phase in humanity's existence.

 

[LoAmmi]

Ah, thanks for that.

I will tell you what got me thinking about the Bible and enlightenment. I read the gnostic texts, Phillip's and Mary Magdalene's and it seemed apparent from these (to me) that Jesus was talking about enlightenment.

For myself nothing has been said so far to dissuade me from my understanding of the story of Adam and Eve, just a wonderful way of talking about the development of the ego as a phase in humanity's existence.

I cannot comment on the gnostic texts as I have not read them and it is not my thing to try to understand that stuff, but your understanding is fine from what I can say. We do not hold any specific understanding to be correct or not.

 

[louisealex]

Thank you LoAmmi.

 

[Booko]

Was there ever such an actual place as the Garden of Eden or is it just a metaphor for a state of conciousness.

It's possible for there to be an actual place and also a metaphorical meaning.

I wish I could remember the name of the documentary, but it was something on one of the History Channels a year or more back that suggested that the Garden of Eden might have been a place that was flooded due to rising seas after all that ice melted at the end of the Ice Age, and given what Genesis describes about rivers and what we know of geography of the area, might be located under what is now the Arabian Sea.

The surrounding area is very dry now, but around the end of the Ice Age is was apparently much greener, climatewise.

 

[Darla1215]

Satan just loves that lie about the snake and apple. Satan was and still is that old snake in the grass!He is a silver tongued devil. He has many names Rev. 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Satan is a beautiful liar. Satan attempts to charm us with false doctrine. Satan promises life but only delivers misery and death. Satan deceived both Adam and Eve with promises that he could not keep and out right lies. He told them they could become gods! The same old New Age lie of today. Eve was the first adulteress read Proverbs 30:20 and Gen. 3:13.

There is only one way. Jesus Christ is the way, truth and life.

 

[bling]

“Ego” is self awareness and there is nothing bad about that?

The ego comes from a needed self preservation instinct that places value on life. When God told Adam “you will die” there had to first be value to life (self) or that would not be a threat to Adam?

What do you mean: “When enlightened there is no longer death and there is no good and evil.” Since we are talking about knowledge?


The problem is self awareness can lead to selfishness
which is the precursor to all sins. Sin is really not the problem (unforgiven sin can be a huge problem). We are not looking to “return to the pre-sin days of Adam and Eve but to a much higher Spiritual level that comes after sinning and accepting God’s forgiven of sins.

 

[ViaCrucis]

St. Irenaeus regarded the episode in Eden more in terms of an adolescent spat. Namely, it wasn't so much a fall from perfection to imperfection; but rather Adam and Eve were formed imperfect in order that they may grow and mature into the sort of people God would have had for them. The Fall, then, represents an act of adolescent rebellion. This of course doesn't change the fact that mankind is growing up; Redemption therefore becomes the act of bringing right maturity to mankind, with Jesus being Second Adam, what it looks like to be a real mature and adult human being.

Theology aside, I think the transition from Eden to the wilderness may represent a primordial description of transitioning from hunter-gatherer societies to agrarian ones.

-CryptoLutheran