the 7 churches

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jul 25, 2018

rockytopva said:
If I were Orthodox I would keep those churches in Asia as well. I believe the Laodicean church is American and, word for word, we need to heed the prophecy given her.

That is because they WERE churches in Asia...

rockytopva · Jul 25, 2018

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
That is because they WERE churches in Asia...

The purpose of the book of Revelation....

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass.... - Revelation 1:1

And...

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. - Revelation 1:20

The prophecy has greater significance then for just seven tiny churches.

rockytopva · Jul 25, 2018

Jenniferdiana said:
haha i'm just weird so please ignore what i post..lol

Not so weird... You are now featured!

The Times · Jul 25, 2018

Seven Notaries/Bishops who dispensed the letters to their congregations.

In Turkey you have Eastern Christian Religion that was united as one, before the schisms from 431AD and onwards.

It was certainly one Church, with seven head Bishops.

BABerean2 · Jul 25, 2018

Jenniferdiana said:
ha ha this is going to be a really weird question because i don't know how to explain it but is it possible the 7 churches in revelation represent one church who represents those 7 churches? i don't know when i was reading it ..something hit me and it seemed really familiar to me and sounded like a representation of that one true church. and what about those seven candlesticks? ok you have 7 churches and 7 candlesticks LOL dont they represent that one thing.. no seriously look, read it closely..and could the seven stars represent a crown or something like the seven seals!! lol..i dont know..seems really profound and mysterious...

The Book of Revelation is a book of symbols.

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Christ said the candlesticks are a symbol of the Church in Revelation 1:20.

Paul said the olive trees are a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of both Israelite branches and Gentile branches grafted together into the same tree in Romans 11.

Therefore, the two witnesses in chapter 11 are a symbol of the Church.

Nice work.

.

brian57 · Jul 25, 2018

Jenniferdiana said:
haha i'm just weird so please ignore what i post..lol

No I wont ignore it and its not funny , pick a church one of the seven and see if you can relate to one of them as an individual. Most people don't like to do this and for very good reason.

Hughestimo · Jul 25, 2018

This is an interesting question. Many think several scenarios, and think it refers to one scenario, but we must realize not all things can be ratonalized. One theory is they were churches of that day. Especially in Asia, Christian persecution was high. ( it was high everywhere, but Asia in particular) several times they were force to leave or lose their life, but their time had yet to come so they moved tp the next city. The letter addressed shortcomings and praises of each of their churches.
Another theory is representing stages of time from the death and resurrection of Christ to his return, the ages in between. Seperated, it could be viewed as each age view toward the church and toward Christ and toward each other. Historically speaking, you can see this as a whole as you go through history looking at events and their daily lives. Some claim it was because of this person or that person, but we must understand we shouldn't put our faith in man but in God alone.

A third theory has us placed in the 1000 years of peace, rather after the evil one had been released for his short season before the lake of fire. The churches are the congregations from then times.

Three theories, but which is correct. Well the thing about God, is he doesn't think like us. While we are thinking which ONE, he is feeling eternity. The 7 churches are nothing more than a mystery that will be bestowed when he see fit. The real important part is living your life in Manner that gives glory to his name and always furthering your connection with him.

Jenniferdiana · Jul 25, 2018

brian57 said:
No I wont ignore it and its not funny , pick a church one of the seven and see if you can relate to one of them as an individual. Most people don't like to do this and for very good reason.

haha i relate to 3 of them nah jk

dqhall · Jul 25, 2018

Hughestimo said:
This is an interesting question. Many think several scenarios, and think it refers to one scenario, but we must realize not all things can be ratonalized. One theory is they were churches of that day. Especially in Asia, Christian persecution was high. ( it was high everywhere, but Asia in particular) several times they were force to leave or lose their life, but their time had yet to come so they moved tp the next city. The letter addressed shortcomings and praises of each of their churches.
Another theory is representing stages of time from the death and resurrection of Christ to his return, the ages in between. Seperated, it could be viewed as each age view toward the church and toward Christ and toward each other. Historically speaking, you can see this as a whole as you go through history looking at events and their daily lives. Some claim it was because of this person or that person, but we must understand we shouldn't put our faith in man but in God alone.

A third theory has us placed in the 1000 years of peace, rather after the evil one had been released for his short season before the lake of fire. The churches are the congregations from then times.

Three theories, but which is correct. Well the thing about God, is he doesn't think like us. While we are thinking which ONE, he is feeling eternity. The 7 churches are nothing more than a mystery that will be bestowed when he see fit. The real important part is living your life in Manner that gives glory to his name and always furthering your connection with him.

The seven churches were in what is now Turkey. The Islamic jihad of the 15th century forced Turkish Christians to flee, convert to Islam, pay a tax, or perish. Over a hundred years ago Turkey was 20% Christian. Armenian Christians living in Turkey were mass murdered by their Muslim neighbors. Persecutions continue to this day. Turkey has an estimated .2% Christians.

I do not think there is any evidence we are in a period of 1000 years of peace. Even though some people live in peaceful, secure neighborhoods, others are lied to, harassed, robbed, threatened, beaten and killed.

Marvin Knox · Jul 25, 2018

Jenniferdiana said:
dont know..seems really profound and mysterious...

Profound - yes and mysterious - no IMO.

The Church is made up of all of the "called out" people of God. Called out is the meaning of ekklesia or, as we know it, a assembly or a church.

The 7 churches are 7 actual groups of called out people living and worshiping at the time of John's revelation in Asia - in the area of present day Turkey.

The critiques issued to them by the Lord can and should be applied to any one of us or any one of the multiplied thousands of congregations in days since Christ.

But the Lord does make it very clear that the "candlesticks" represent groups of called out people - wherever they are found IMO.

The two churches mentioned in Revelation 11 as the two witnesses represent, IMO, called out individuals before Christ (O.T.) and after Christ (N.T.).

The two witnesses, IMO, are representatives of the called out people of God in the two major time periods of earth. I.e. before and after Christ or perhaps even alternatively before and after the flood.

IMO - the two witnesses representing these groups of called out people are Enoch and John the Baptist.

I wouldn't be dogmatic about all of this. But if I didn't think it was correct or a valid possibility I wouldn't put it to paper (make that cyber space).

Hughestimo · Jul 25, 2018

dqhall said:
The seven churches were in what is now Turkey. The Islamic jihad of the 15th century forced Turkish Christians to flee, convert to Islam, pay a tax, or perish. Over a hundred years ago Turkey was 20% Christian. Armenian Christians living in Turkey were mass murdered by their Muslim neighbors. Persecutions continue to this day. Turkey has an estimated .2% Christians.

I do not think there is any evidence we are in a period of 1000 years of peace. Even though some people live in peaceful, secure neighborhoods, others are lied to, harassed, robbed, threatened, beaten and killed.

I'm sorry, you must have misunderstood me. 1) persecution is still prevalent today.
2) the 1000 years of peace is after Christ's return. We cannot even remotely consider the world today peaceful. It's a cruel sad world today.

Stringfellow_Hawke · Jul 25, 2018

rockytopva said:
I believe the seven churches were birthed down through the ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

That is very interesting. I've never heard this before.

Thedictator · Jul 25, 2018

The number 7 is God, The 7 Churches are God's Churches.

parousia70 · Jul 25, 2018

rockytopva said:
The purpose of the book of Revelation....

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass.... - Revelation 1:1

Shortly?

And...

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. - Revelation 1:20

The prophecy has greater significance then for just seven tiny churches.

But there is no scriptural instruction to REMOVE those 7 tiny churches from its application as you are want to do....

Each of those 7 first century congregations were addressed directly by the Glorified Christ in Heaven for a Reason.
To dismiss this fact outright and say, no, Jesus wasn't speaking to them, it wasn't really meant FOR them at all, is untenable.

parousia70 · Jul 25, 2018

Stringfellow_Hawke said:
That is very interesting. I've never heard this before.

It might be interesting but It's not Biblical.
It is a later invention of men forced into the text to appease as previously held bias and has no basis or origin in the text itself.

Stringfellow_Hawke · Jul 25, 2018

parousia70 said:
It might be interesting but It's not Biblical.
It is a later invention of men forced into the text to appease as previously held bias and has no basis or origin in the text itself.

Alrighty then...

parousia70 · Jul 25, 2018

Stringfellow_Hawke said:
Alrighty then...

Happy to get that cleared up.

rockytopva · Jul 25, 2018

Was the Laodicea church in Asia ever rich and increased with goods? If so, prove it. Was the Thyatiran church in Asia ever controlling? If so, prove it. Had the church at Sardis in Asia ever highly named but dead? If so, prove it. Was the church at Philadelphia ever in and out of revival? If so, prove it.

But... These things can be proved in the historical timeline.

rockytopva · Jul 25, 2018

Another thing the mystery of the seven churches in the timeline shows is that the Catholic Church will have company in the last day in the form of Messianic, Orthodox, and Protestant!

parousia70 · Jul 25, 2018

rockytopva said:
Was the Laodicea church in Asia ever rich and increased with goods? If so, prove it. Was the Thyatiran church in Asia ever controlling? If so, prove it. Had the church at Sardis in Asia ever highly named but dead? If so, prove it. Was the church at Philadelphia ever in and out of revival? If so, prove it.

Christ calls them all those things. We are to believe Christ.

Read a little history of the first century church and the worldwide persecution they endured, or just read these verses: 2 Thess 1:4-6; 1 Peter 4:12-17, 5:9; Heb 10:32-34; 1 Thess 2:14-15, Acts 8:1; Matthew 23:33-38; Matt 10:17-23; Luke 21:16-20.

But... These things can be proved in the historical timeline.

That's certainly not a literal interpretation, nor a biblical one. The churches are first-century churches:

Revelation 1:4
"John to the seven churches that are in Asia..."

--and--

Revelation 1:11
"Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus [Acts 20:17] and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira [Acts 16:14-16] and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea [Col 2:1]."

You are spiritualizing away what John said when you try to apply it the way you think to do. The seven churches St John sent his vision to were all 1st century churches that do not exist today anywhere on the planet. They are:

Ephesus
Smyrna
Pergamum
Thyatira
Sardis
Philadelphia
Laodicea

Each one of those Churches were Churches that St. John knew of personally. They were his own contemporaries. Each congregation had specific problems that were unique.

Furthermore, nowhere in Revelation do we see St. John say that these Churches stand for segments of history or the Churches of any FUTURE time. St. John simply doesn't allow for such an allegorical use of his letter written and urgently sent to those Churches with this opening warning:

Revelation 1:1,3
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which MUST soon take place...Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it for the time is at hand.

the 7 churches

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