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Sorry, but the new temple in Jerusalem will have no bearing on the timing of the rapture. God is waiting for the final martyr of the church age.
Christians already know the 3rd Temple will be for the coming of the Anti-Christ, it is really amazing how this is all set up as it was engineered to happen (About the prophecy coming true not the coming of the Anti-Christ.) But those outside of Christianity may not know of this, hopefully, they will have Bibles around. The Third Temple for Judaism is in preparation for the coming of the Rabbinic Messiah (The Anti-Christ).
There is no priesthood, the Romans destroyed the records of the priesthood along with the 2nd temple in 70AD, and any existing record has disappeared. Not one can prove they are a priest descendant from Aaron. When Ezra had the building for the 2nd temple, if a priest could not provide proof of his ancestry from the tribe of Levi they were not allowed in the temple. And there isn't one person no matter who they are, that can prove their priesthood. So no priesthood, no temple.
In Jerimiah CHP3
The Prophet Jerimiah proclaimed that at the coming of the New Covenant, that the temple would no longer be needed (discontinued). Ezekial temple is figurative for the Church.
The only true temple is the Church, and there is no salvation apart from Jesus Christ.
so any hopes and plans for the Third Temple for those outside of Christianity self-destructed. Blood Atonement for Sins happened at the Cross.
Then don't talk about the abomination of desolation since there could be no such things in that place.David, that's not the thing to argue over. For likewise, the Jews will embrace someone who God did not send to be their King of Israel - i.e. the messiah - but he will not be the messiah.
What we have to look at it for, is the Jews are getting ready to build their temple - what it means for us, is a sign that our redemption draws near. Not the theological rightness or wrongness of what they are doing.
What do you and/or others think about Josephus's mention of a statue of Caligula being put the Temple years before the Temple got decimated in 70ad?Then don't talk about the abomination of desolation since there could be no such things in that place.
You are confusing what this post was about. I never claimed the Third temple being built in Isreal is where God would be....
Come on, Evan as a Catholic you haven’t been visited as in sight seeing some really spooky looking Catholic Churches. Like of the Roman type in the Southwest?I was liking your comment until you mentioned "ornate Catholic building".
All premillennial prophecy needs is the Temple during the Tribulation, not a converted Israel. That can't happen until the end of the Tribulation.
Five, and they are virgins. Not good news for the rest of us.Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
How many people will be saved at His Second Coming, based on the scripture found above?
.
Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
How many people will be saved at His Second Coming, based on the scripture found above?
.
Paul did say there is neither Jew nor Greek all are in Christ.First of all, no everyone believes in Rapture Theology and a Jewish Temple.
Second, do you think the idea about the Rapture is a secret only Christians know it? The whole US relation with Israel is based around that idea.
i think you are almost rightI appreciate and concur with much in your responses. Here is some historical commentary and context from two apologists of the early Church:
The early church believed that the imperial Roman empire, under which the church was then living, was the restrainer which would eventually be "taken out of the way", but which was forestalling the emergence of the papal Roman empire, which Paul describes as the lawless one; and its eventual apostasy. Notice in the related verses in 2 Thess. 2 that Paul does not reveal the identity of the restrainer. If Paul had believed that the Holy Spirit or the Church was the restrainer, there would have been no reason for him not to explicitly name either one. But Paul did have a reason. John Chrysostom (347-407 AD), an apologist of the later early post-apostolic era, reveals it:
"Because if he meant to say the Spirit, he would not have spoken obscurely, but plainly, that even now the grace of the Spirit, that is the gifts, withhold him...But because he said this of the Roman empire, he naturally glanced at it, and speaks covertly and darkly. For he did not wish to bring upon himself superfluous enmities, and useless dangers. For if he had said that after a little while the Roman empire would be dissolved, they would immediately have even overwhelmed him, as a pestilent person, and all the faithful, as living and warring to this end."
Paul did not wish to jeopardize the Church by attracting the attention of the Roman authorities.
History subsequently confirmed the validity of Paul's inspired prescience.
Chrysostom was affirming what Tertullian (160-220AD) had said over a century earlier:
ON THE RESURRECTION, CHAP. XXIV
"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now hinders must hinder, until he be taken out of the way." What obstacle is there but the Roman state, the falling away of which, by being scattered into ten kingdoms, shall introduce Antichrist upon (its own ruins)? "And then shall be revealed the wicked one, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming: even him whose coming is after the working of Satan, with all power, and signs, and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish."
Re. your comment:
"Certainly we see no evidence of it in the first 1500 years of Christ's Church, and the notion that Christ had no disciples back then, save the Apostles themselves, does a grave injustice to the work of the Holy Spirit; who quickens us in every generation to Christ."
There has always been, and will always be, the true Church. But the evidences of apostasy in the institutionalized church began in the 6th century, and reached their zenith in the 16th century. God raised up the Reformers to reclaim His True Church from the spiritual bondage which had enslaved it.
i think you are almost right
at first. The Roman Empire. Under Caesar and Augustus. And the early emperors. Was still very Republican in? It's trapping. The early empire is called the Principate. Because in the main even the emperors. merely claimed to be the first amongst equals the first citizen of the Republic.
But with Diocletian, infamous for his fears persecutions of the church. The Principate. And all Republican trappings were swept aside. Diocletian ushered in the dominate where in the emperor was openly worshipped as a God man on Earth. And that's when the fiercest persecution of Christians began. Daisho Kliche and destroyed all church is all complete copies of the Bible. And executed or imprisoned all. Leading church officials.
So when the last vestiges of the Roman REPUBLIC and it's legal law abiding. Ideology was swept aside. Then. The persecutions of Christians began. Until he was defeated by Emperor Constantine.
David, desolation of the temple means that there will be no praise and worship of the One True God, while that object is in the temple.Then don't talk about the abomination of desolation since there could be no such things in that place.
Jews worship and praise the One True God. It is doesn't mean they are saved. But who they worship and praise is the One True God.
Both Rabbi Judah ben Illai who praised God for not making him a goy, as well as rabbi Simeon ben Yochai, were active in the early second century, and as disciples of Rabbi Akiva, participated in the bar Kochba rebellion against emperor Hadrian.1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Nobody can reject the Son and then worship and praise the Father.
Anyone who rejects the Son is "antichrist".
You are attempting to promote some form of Dual Covenant Theology.
.
Thank you sir!I appreciate and concur with much in your responses. Here is some historical commentary and context from two apologists of the early Church:
The early church believed that the imperial Roman empire, under which the church was then living, was the restrainer which would eventually be "taken out of the way", but which was forestalling the emergence of the papal Roman empire, which Paul describes as the lawless one; and its eventual apostasy. Notice in the related verses in 2 Thess. 2 that Paul does not reveal the identity of the restrainer. If Paul had believed that the Holy Spirit or the Church was the restrainer, there would have been no reason for him not to explicitly name either one. But Paul did have a reason. John Chrysostom (347-407 AD), an apologist of the later early post-apostolic era, reveals it:
"Because if he meant to say the Spirit, he would not have spoken obscurely, but plainly, that even now the grace of the Spirit, that is the gifts, withhold him...But because he said this of the Roman empire, he naturally glanced at it, and speaks covertly and darkly. For he did not wish to bring upon himself superfluous enmities, and useless dangers. For if he had said that after a little while the Roman empire would be dissolved, they would immediately have even overwhelmed him, as a pestilent person, and all the faithful, as living and warring to this end."
I think, based on John Chrysostom's homily, that conclusion remains somewhat speculative. I still owe you an analysis on Tertullian but do not have the time for a lengthier response at the moment.Paul did not wish to jeopardize the Church by attracting the attention of the Roman authorities.
History subsequently confirmed the validity of Paul's inspired prescience.
Yes, perhaps my statement was a little stronger than prudent but here we are in the very late 4th century with no hard evidence; yet instead an indicative discernment that there were in reality two camps regarding whether the restrainer was the Holy Spirit or the Roman Empire.Re. your comment:
"Certainly we see no evidence of it in the first 1500 years of Christ's Church, and the notion that Christ had no disciples back then, save the Apostles themselves, does a grave injustice to the work of the Holy Spirit; who quickens us in every generation to Christ."
There has always been, and will always be, the true Church. But the evidences of apostasy in the institutionalized church began in the 6th century, and reached their zenith in the 16th century. God raised up the Reformers to reclaim His True Church from the spiritual bondage which had enslaved it.
The Seals and Riders of Revelation said:The 1st Seal: Christ the Victor and Conqueror: the Gospel is unleashed upon the earth and in every generation of battle it goes forth into all the world bringing in the Sheaves.
So, I believe the broken seals are representations of the types of major events that will have an impact the spread of the Gospel. As we know we are told by Jesus that the Gospel will go forth until the end of the age and He is with us in this sacred endeavor. The proportionality as to the occurrences may differ over time but an inference as to its acceleration, as we approach the end of the age, is not a great leap.The Seals and Riders of Revelation said:Second Seal: Conflicts on Earth - Wars and rumors of wars.
- "Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer. - Revelation 6:1-2
- This battle and the Great Commission to go into all the world with the Gospel and make disciples has been passed down to our generation as well. The circuit of our Lord still rides throughout the Earth.
- When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword. - Revelation 6:3-4
- Matthew 24:6 and Mark 13:7 “And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
- Third Seal: Famine upon Earth - Revelation 6:5-6
Fourth Seal: Widespread Death on Earth
- When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.” - Revelation 6:5-6
Fifth Seal: The Cry of the Martyrs slaughtered for the witness of the Gospel
- When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth. Revelation 6:7-8
- When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. Revelation 6:9-11
You took those verses out of context. John was talking about people in his day who had abandoned Christianity and were denying Jesus being the messiah and the Son of God.1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Nobody can reject the Son and then worship and praise the Father.
Anyone who rejects the Son is "antichrist".
You are attempting to promote some form of Dual Covenant Theology.
.
You have lost your way. Our redemption draws near. That is what you focus should be on in evaluating events unfolding. Not a campaign on the Jews are wrong in their rejection of Christ - Christians here all know that.
They do. But is that going to change that the end time events are going to take place? No, it does not.There is now no difference between a naked native living in the Amazon rain forest, and any person living in the middle east.
They all need Christ for the same reason, and in the same way.
I have not lost my way.
You have lost your way - eschatologically speaking - and the priority of what it means as signs that our redemption draws near. Instead you are consumed by theological debate - which you are in denial of what is going on because of it.I want every human on this planet to come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.
You took those verses out of context. John was talking about people in his day who had abandoned Christianity and were denying Jesus being the messiah and the Son of God.
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. And could have an affect of causing others to depart the faith.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
_____________________________________________________
Bab2, you wrote...."You are attempting to promote some form of Dual Covenant Theology."
What I promote is one way to be saved and have eternal life and that is through the Lord Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross.
You are confusing eschatology with theology.
The end times events are going to take place no matter what any individual person's religion or no religion is.
Instead of looking at eschatology with the right frame of mind, you are using your theology focus that the Jews are wrong to deny deny deny what is taking place. Without even thinking that God gave us those prophecies so that we would be in the light and not in darkness. And for assurance and hope that our redemption draws near. It is Jesus in the morning, Jesus during the day, Jesus in the evening, Jesus when we go to sleep at night.
Everybody here knows the the Jews are wrong theologically speaking because they reject Jesus. That is not something that has to be stated over and over.
What is important to Christians is that as the time approaches for fulfillment of the end times prophecies, our redemption draws near. And we shouldn't go into denial, for the sake of some theological cause.
You have lost your way. Our redemption draws near. That is what you focus should be on in evaluating events unfolding. Not a campaign on the Jews are wrong in their rejection of Christ - Christians here all know that.
Evaluate the end times events in light of those being signs that our redemption draws near.
1Corinthians2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
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