The 3rd Temple Problem for those outside of Christianity

[JohnB445]

Christians already know the 3rd Temple will be for the coming of the Anti-Christ, it is really amazing how this is all set up as it was engineered to happen (About the prophecy coming true not the coming of the Anti-Christ.) But those outside of Christianity may not know of this, hopefully, they will have Bibles around. The Third Temple for Judaism is in preparation for the coming of the Rabbinic Messiah (The Anti-Christ).

There is no priesthood, the Romans destroyed the records of the priesthood along with the 2nd temple in 70AD, and any existing record has disappeared. Not one can prove they are a priest descendant from Aaron. When Ezra had the building for the 2nd temple, if a priest could not provide proof of his ancestry from the tribe of Levi they were not allowed in the temple. And there isn't one person no matter who they are, that can prove their priesthood. So no priesthood, no temple.

In Jerimiah CHP3
The Prophet Jerimiah proclaimed that at the coming of the New Covenant, that the temple would no longer be needed (discontinued). Ezekial temple is figurative for the Church.

The only true temple is the Church, and there is no salvation apart from Jesus Christ.

so any hopes and plans for the Third Temple for those outside of Christianity self-destructed. Blood Atonement for Sins happened at the Cross.

 

[Not David]

First of all, no everyone believes in Rapture Theology and a Jewish Temple.
Second, do you think the idea about the Rapture is a secret only Christians know it? The whole US relation with Israel is based around that idea.

 

[JohnB445]

This thread isn't about the rapture, and the building of a third temple is a reality that is occuring.

Other than that the third temple is a prophecy in your Bible.
End-Time Prophecy: Why is the Third Temple so Important? | Messianic Bible

 

[Not David]

This thread isn't about the rapture, and the building of a third temple is a reality that is occuring.

Other than that the third temple is a prophecy in your Bible.
End-Time Prophecy: Why is the Third Temple so Important? | Messianic Bible

Jesus prophecied the destruction of the Second Temple for a reason, the unfaithful Jews aren't believers and even if they build a temple, it will not be the Temple of God since God will not be present there.

 

[JohnB445]

Jesus prophecied the destruction of the Second Temple for a reason, the unfaithful Jews aren't believers and even if they build a temple, it will not be the Temple of God since God will not be present there.

No Christian is claiming there will be God there.

 

[BABerean2]

This thread isn't about the rapture, and the building of a third temple is a reality that is occuring.

Other than that the third temple is a prophecy in your Bible.
End-Time Prophecy: Why is the Third Temple so Important? | Messianic Bible

The following quote comes from your source.

"The Hebrew prophets all proclaimed that in the last days, the exiles of Israel would return to the Promised Land and that the Temple would be rebuilt.

“Then the nations will know that I the Lord make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.” (Ezekiel 37:28)

These phenomenal end-time events are unfolding before our very eyes!"


Eze 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
(See Hebrews 13:20.)

Who is the "sanctuary" that remains among His people "forever" in the New Covenant, which is the "everlasting covenant"?

Who clearly said He is the temple that would be destroyed and raised up in three days, in the New Testament.

Who is the "chief cornerstone" in Matthew chapter 21?
Who did Peter say is the "chief cornerstone" in 1 Peter 2:4-10?

Peter also said we are stones in that temple.

Therefore, the construction of the third temple began during the first century, based on 1 Peter 2:4-10.

On the road to Emmaus Jesus said the whole Old Testament is a book about Him, in Luke 24:25-27.
Your source fails to fully comprehend this fact.

.

 

[JohnB445]

The following quote comes from your source.

"The Hebrew prophets all proclaimed that in the last days, the exiles of Israel would return to the Promised Land and that the Temple would be rebuilt.

“Then the nations will know that I the Lord make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.” (Ezekiel 37:28)

These phenomenal end-time events are unfolding before our very eyes!"

Who is the "sanctuary" that remains among His people "forever" in the New Covenant?

Who clearly said He is the temple that would be destroyed and raised up in three days, in the New Testament.

Who is the "chief cornerstone" in Matthew chapter 21?
Who did Peter say is the "chief cornerstone" in 1 Peter 2:4-10?

Peter also said we are stones in that temple.

Therefore, the construction of the third temple began during the first century, based on 1 Peter 2:4-10.

.

You are confusing what this post was about. I never claimed the Third temple being built in Isreal is where God would be.

Also a quote from the following source.

"The anti-Messiah will also proclaim himself to be God!

“He [the man of lawlessness] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” (2 Thess. 2:4)"

 

[BABerean2]

Also a quote from the following source.

"The anti-Messiah will also proclaim himself to be God!

“He [the man of lawlessness] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” (2 Thess. 2:4)"

The temple of God is now the Church.
The antichrist of the verse above is any man who declares himself to be God, in the Church.

It does not require a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.

.

 

[trophy33]

Other than that the third temple is a prophecy in your Bible.
End-Time Prophecy: Why is the Third Temple so Important? | Messianic Bible

"The Hebrew prophets all proclaimed that in the last days, the exiles of Israel would return to the Promised Land and that the Temple would be rebuilt."

All these prophets prophecised about the second temple. There was no Jewish prophet after the second temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Jesus prophecied the destruction of the Second Temple for a reason, the unfaithful Jews aren't believers and even if they build a temple, it will not be the Temple of God since God will not be present there.

Hosea 3 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They shall fear the LORD and His goodness in the latter days.

This prophecy links the return of the kingdom and even David who is also promised to return in Jer and Eze with the at the same time the sanctuary (temple) is also returned after many days without either king or sanctuary. You are right jesus did predict the destruction of the Temple but also said Jerusalem shall be trampled by the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles had ended. Jesus warned Daniels abomination of desolation was a future event. Rev has the beast given authority of the dragon for 42 months at which time the false prophet requires the mark of the beast and the worship of the image of the beast. 42 months would be the middle of the week. 2 Thes 2 speaks of the coming of the LORD not occurring until the man of sin is revealed. He is clearly identified and called the son of perdition and like the best in Rev is not destroyed until the coming of the LORD. This cannot have been Nero.

here is the prophecy Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[fn] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin[fn] is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[fn] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. NOTE: he must declare himself to be some sort of God and make great blasphemy. This is again matching Rev 13 adn Dan 7 the one speaking pompous words. Look here how and when the lawless one is destroyed. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[fn] who now restrains will do so until He[fn] is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Rev 20 and Dan 7 both show great persecution for 3 1/2 years by one who is destroyed at the 2nd coming. If these prophecies are not literal then why would every aspect of the literal interpretation be lined up with momentum and specific directions heading in the expected timeline of events?

 

[John 1720]

Christians already know the 3rd Temple will be for the coming of the Anti-Christ, it is really amazing how this is all set up as it was engineered to happen (About the prophecy coming true not the coming of the Anti-Christ.) But those outside of Christianity may not know of this, hopefully, they will have Bibles around. The Third Temple for Judaism is in preparation for the coming of the Rabbinic Messiah (The Anti-Christ).

There is no priesthood, the Romans destroyed the records of the priesthood along with the 2nd temple in 70AD, and any existing record has disappeared. Not one can prove they are a priest descendant from Aaron. When Ezra had the building for the 2nd temple, if a priest could not provide proof of his ancestry from the tribe of Levi they were not allowed in the temple. And there isn't one person no matter who they are, that can prove their priesthood. So no priesthood, no temple.

In Jerimiah CHP3
The Prophet Jerimiah proclaimed that at the coming of the New Covenant, that the temple would no longer be needed (discontinued). Ezekial temple is figurative for the Church.

The only true temple is the Church, and there is no salvation apart from Jesus Christ.

so any hopes and plans for the Third Temple for those outside of Christianity self-destructed. Blood Atonement for Sins happened at the Cross.

Hi John,
I think you raise a legitimate issue but not one that is impossible to overcome. I believe a physical (3rd) temple being rebuilt in Jerusalem was understood as prophecy by the early Christians, post AD 70 of course. These 3rd and 4th generation Christians also clearly understood that Christ was the true 3rd temple, not built by human hands but Emmanuel, and yet still comprised with the Holy of Holies, the Court of Israel, and the Court of the Gentiles; all per God's design. The future temple would therefore be only a 3rd physical undertaking and antithetical to the work of Christ, the stone the builders rejected but which has become the chief cornerstone of the temple, which God has opened to all nations. (Note: Herod's temple, mentioned in John 2:20 was, for all its earthly magnificence as a wonder of the world, merely an enhancement of Zerubbabel's more diminutive work that God had truly blessed.)
As to the antichrist, the early Church believed he would come from the tribe of Dan; they also believed he would indeed make himself High Priest. I often wondered that why they claimed they would make him so, with no record of being from the Levitical line. However, as to the line being impossible to achieve, even if you do believe that is necessary requirement, I suggest a three letter acronym might resolve the alleged problem of the priestly line - "DNA".
Excerpts from the eschatological commentaries of Hippolytus AD 170-235.

• Through the Scriptures we are instructed in two advents of the Christ and Savior, the first after the flesh was in humiliation, because Christ became manifest to us in His lowly estate, but His second advent is declared to be in glory; [i.] for He will come to us from heaven with power with His holy angels, and with the glory of His Father. His first advent had John the Baptist as its forerunner; and His second, in which He is to come in glory, will exhibit Enoch, and Elias, and John the Divine." [ii.] …. ” For by one week he indicates the showing forth of the seven years which shall be in the last times and the half of the week the two prophets, augmented with John, for the purpose of proclaiming to all the world the advent of Antichrist by the means of a thousand two hundred and sixty days clothed in sackcloth; (Rev 11:3)
• But (the antichrist) in his first steps will be gentle, loveable, quiet, pious, pacific, hating injustice, detesting gifts, not allowing idolatry; loving the Scriptures, as he claims, reverencing priests …
• And above all others shall the nation of the Hebrews be dear to the tyrant himself. They shall say one to another, Is there found indeed in our generation such a man, so good and just? (Note in Hippolytus' time not only had the temple been destroyed but during and after the rule of Hadrian the Jewish people were not even allowed to enter Jerusalem any longer. Yet here he confidently speaks of them being in power as a nation once again.)
• we have been constrained to come to the matter of the days of the dominion of the adversary (i.e. the antichrist) it is necessary to state in the first place what concerns his nativity.... As we have said before, in all respects the accuser and son of lawlessness will make himself like unto our Savior... Christ the Savior of the world came with the purpose of saving the race of men and was born of the immaculate and virgin Mary, in the form of the flesh...
• He shall be born of a virgin spuriously (i.e. that is by ungodly and some type of un-natural means). Even as Christ chose His apostles, so will he too (i.e. the antichrist) assume a whole people of disciples, those like unto himself, in order to follow after wickedness.
• Once he is elevated to his kingdom, he will marshal in war ….. After this victory he will build the temple in Jerusalem, and will restore it again speedily … then he will be lifted up in heart against every man. He will even speak blasphemies against God, thinking that in his deceit he shall be king upon the earth hereafter, and forever; not knowing, miserable wretch that he is, that his kingdom will be quickly brought down …. For when Daniel said, I shall make my covenant for one week, he indicated seven years.
• He will no longer seem to be pious, but altogether he will in all things be harsh, severe, passionate, wrathful, terrible, inconstant, dreadful, morose, hateful, abominable, savage, vengeful, iniquitous. He will be hell bent on casting the whole race of men into the pit of perdition and he will multiply his false signs.
• …. after all these things, the heavens will not give forth their dew and the clouds will not give their rain. The earth will refuse to yield its fruits, the sea shall be filled with a stench and the rivers shall be dried up. The fish of the sea shall die, men shall perish of hunger and thirst. ….. And by reason of the scarcity of food, all will go to him and worship him; and he will put his mark on their right hand and on their forehead.
• I do not know the matter for certain; for many names have been found in this number when it is expressed in writing. Still we say that perhaps the inscription of this same seal will give us the word “I deny”. even in recent days, by means of his ministers — that is to say, the idolaters — that bitter adversary took up the word deny, when the lawless pressed upon the witnesses of Christ, with the adjuration, Deny your God, the crucified One.
• those who yield to him he (the antichrist) will seal with his seal; but those who refuse to submit to him he will consume with incomparable pains and bitterest torments and machinations, such as never have been, nor have reached the ear of man, nor have been seen by the eye of mortals. Blessed shall they be who overcome the tyrant then. For they shall be set forth as more illustrious and loftier even than even our very first witnesses; for with the former witnesses they only overcame his minions, but these shall overthrow and conquer the accuser himself, the very son of perdition.
• Notwithstanding, not even then will our merciful benefactor, God, leave the race of men without all comfort; but He will shorten even those days to the period of three years and a half years, and He will curtail those tim[ii.]
• on account of the remnant of those who hide themselves in the mountains and caves, the phalanx of all those saints shall not utterly fail; for these days shall run their course rapidly; and the kingdom of the deceiver and Antichrist shall be speedily removed.

[i.]
Mat 16:27 “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.
​

Mat 24:30 “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
Mar 8:38“For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”
[ii.]
This belief seems to have been held by the early Church. It is not unlike Jewish eschatology which hold that Enoch and Elijah who were taken up alive will appear as witnesses in the last days but it does also add the apostle John, probably because of this passage in Revelation​

Rev 10:10-11:3

Then I took the little book out of the angel's hand and ate it, and it was as sweet as honey in my mouth. But when I had eaten it, my stomach became bitter. And he said to me, "You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, tongues, and kings." Rev 11:1

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, "Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. "And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."

This then would seem to indicate that it takes place somewhere after the rebuilding of the temple at Jerusalem.​

• 
  In conclusion, this seems to indicate the leaders of the ancient Church understood the prophesies and warning of the Apostles well. Relative to that understanding, we see that understanding included:
  1. the return of the Jewish people to their homeland
  2. the reclamation of the ancient state of Israel
  3. the physical rebuilding of the ancient temple
  4. the reinstitution of the priesthood, which would ultimately honor the charismatic beloved man, who ultimately will deceive many, and is in fact the very son of perdition.
  • Mark 13:22 “For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

 

[Hank77]

Hi John,
I think you raise a legitimate issue but not one that is impossible to overcome. I believe a physical (3rd) temple being rebuilt in Jerusalem was understood as prophecy by the early Christians, post AD 70 of course. These 3rd and 4th generation Christians also clearly understood that Christ was the true 3rd temple, not built by human hands but Emmanuel, and yet still comprised with the Holy of Holies, the Court of Israel, and the Court of the Gentiles; all per God's design. The future temple would therefore be only a 3rd physical undertaking and antithetical to the work of Christ, the stone the builders rejected but which has become the chief cornerstone of the temple, which God has opened to all nations. (Note: Herod's temple, mentioned in John 2:20 was, for all its earthly magnificence as a wonder of the world, merely an enhancement of Zerubbabel's more diminutive work that God had truly blessed.)
As to the antichrist, the early Church believed he would come from the tribe of Dan; they also believed he would indeed make himself High Priest. I often wondered that why they claimed they would make him so, with no record of being from the Levitical line. However, as to the line being impossible to achieve, even if you do believe that is necessary requirement, I suggest a three letter acronym might resolve the alleged problem of the priestly line - "DNA".
Excerpts from the eschatological commentaries of Hippolytus AD 170-235.

• 
  In conclusion, this seems to indicate the leaders of the ancient Church understood the prophesies and warning of the Apostles well. Relative to that understanding, we see that understanding included:
  1. the return of the Jewish people to their homeland
  2. the reclamation of the ancient state of Israel
  3. the physical rebuilding of the ancient temple
  4. the reinstitution of the priesthood, which would ultimately honor the charismatic beloved man, who ultimately will deceive many, and is in fact the very son of perdition.
  • Mark 13:22 “For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Hippolytus wasn't really worried about making things up and adding to what the scriptures say. Speaking about anti-Christ he says....
He shall be born of a virgin spuriously (i.e. that is by ungodly and some type of un-natural means). Even as Christ chose His apostles, so will he too (i.e. the antichrist) assume a whole people of disciples, those like unto himself, in order to follow after wickedness.

People's imaginations can run wild when trying to interpret symbolic literature.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Christians already know the 3rd Temple will be for the coming of the Anti-Christ, it is really amazing how this is all set up as it was engineered to happen (About the prophecy coming true not the coming of the Anti-Christ.) But those outside of Christianity may not know of this, hopefully, they will have Bibles around. The Third Temple for Judaism is in preparation for the coming of the Rabbinic Messiah (The Anti-Christ).

There is no priesthood, the Romans destroyed the records of the priesthood along with the 2nd temple in 70AD, and any existing record has disappeared. Not one can prove they are a priest descendant from Aaron. When Ezra had the building for the 2nd temple, if a priest could not provide proof of his ancestry from the tribe of Levi they were not allowed in the temple. And there isn't one person no matter who they are, that can prove their priesthood. So no priesthood, no temple.

In Jerimiah CHP3
The Prophet Jerimiah proclaimed that at the coming of the New Covenant, that the temple would no longer be needed (discontinued). Ezekial temple is figurative for the Church.

The only true temple is the Church, and there is no salvation apart from Jesus Christ.

so any hopes and plans for the Third Temple for those outside of Christianity self-destructed. Blood Atonement for Sins happened at the Cross.

I say hurry up & build it so we can go home!!

 

[Hank77]

No Christian is claiming there will be God there.

That isn't true. Have you read what many dispensationalists, such as Tom Ice, believe. They believe that God will be there.

 

[trophy33]

I say hurry up & build it so we can go home!!

I am pretty sure we can go home without any Jewish temple.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I am pretty sure we can go home without any Jewish temple.

Yeah but I don’t want to die lol

 

[trophy33]

Yeah but I don’t want to die lol

Well, who does... but its quite quick in most cases.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well, who does... but its quite quick in most cases.

Getting hit on the head with an exploding nuclear missile sounds fast enough for me. I don’t want to feel anything lol joking

 

[trophy33]

Getting hit on the head with an exploding nuclear missile sounds fast enough for me. I don’t want to feel anything lol joking

I think the biggest problem is fear of the pain, i.e. our head, not the actual pain. If the pain is too much to bear, the brain shuts down and you will be unconcious.

Death is not some kind of prison torturing ...

 

[John 1720]

Hippolytus wasn't really worried about making things up and adding to what the scriptures say. Speaking about anti-Christ he says....
He shall be born of a virgin spuriously (i.e. that is by ungodly and some type of un-natural means). Even as Christ chose His apostles, so will he too (i.e. the antichrist) assume a whole people of disciples, those like unto himself, in order to follow after wickedness.

People's imaginations can run wild when trying to interpret symbolic literature.

Hi Hank,
I would agree that ancient commentary on the Scriptures doesn't rise to what we have been given as solid teaching for the Church, namely that which the Apostles handed down to us in the Scriptures. Commentary should be treated as interpretative whether the period is ancient, medieval, reformation or modern. However, we shouldn't ignore the fact that he being a Bishop of Rome in the early 200's that he was most likely representing what most orthodox Christians believed in their day; both through Scripture as well as oral traditions of Apostolic witness - which in our day is quite gone.

Being only a 4th generation Christian I'd surmise it is still very probable that some of his commentary is perhaps more based on oral apostolic traditions rather than merely hyperbolic meanderings. Examples of Apostolic oral traditions being passed down were not uncommon to the early Church. We see them in the fragments of Papias and the extant works of Polycarp. These are men the 2nd century Irenaeus claimed were discipled by John. Irenaeus, himself, also passed down oral traditions he receive from Polycarp. While they are extrabiblical they do not invalidate the Scriptures but harmonize with its teachings. John stated there was much more Jesus said and did. His Gospel ends with:

• John 21:25 And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.

Though Hippolytus was one generation removed from Irenaeus, he undoubtedly knew him being based in Rome and seeing that it is documented that he traveled there from Lyon. Just as we discuss the Scriptures and interpretation of prophecy in the modern era these early Christians also discussed it at length. The only difference is they were not far from the living witness of those who wrote the New Testament.
So where I dismiss and reject commentary is where it obviously contradicts Scripture. Where I see evidence of oral traditions that are within the bounds of what Scripture states I categorize as a possibility or, if the evidence very strongly aligns with Scripture, even probably true. So much of what Hippolytus states about the antiChrist does strongly align with what we read in Daniel and Revelation. Now I don't think being born by unnatural means is in Scripture but perhaps that could have been orally communicated, however that should be categorized as an uncertain probability. However, I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater as I don't think he was just making things up - the veracity of his statement would be dependent on his witness.

Is that impossible? In his day we'd have to say yes but in our day we have the capability to clone human beings. Was the temple being rebuilt also improbable in his day? Surely it was after Hadrian razed Jerusalem for the 2nd time in AD 135 and made it a capital crime for Jews to even enter the city. Yet there is evidence that he both believe it will be based on Scripture and most likely his amplifications are oral traditions.
As with any commentators on Scripture discernment and integrity are always key. I still believe this is a window into late 2nd century, early 3rd century Christian beliefs, even if I don't take it as Gospel.
In Christ, Patrick