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lord Rothschild is perfectly honest about where his primary loyalties resideHow many times does Lord Rothschild give God credit for creating the modern State of Israel, in the presentation below?
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- Paul was referring to an impostor who would situate himself, and arrogate spiritual authority, within the spiritual temple of the believer, collectively the Church.
- In his epistles, Paul refers to the temple exclusively from a spiritual perspective (“naos” in the Greek).
- The early Church recognized the existing imperial Roman empire as “he who letteth (withholdeth)”, i.e. the restraining influence forestalling the emergence of the man of sin.
- Paul's inspired prescience saw fulfillment in the Roman papacy, which emerged from the dissolution of the imperial Roman empire, which claimed ultimate and complete spiritual authority within the Church, and which ultimately apostasized into the man of sin claiming to be "God on the earth".
Hi Sir,The Background Scriptures said:2Chronicles 6:18
“But will God indeed dwell with men on the earth? Behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain You. How much less this temple which I have built! – Solomon
Isaiah 66:1 Thus says the LORD:
“Heaven is My throne, and earth is My footstool. Where is the house that you will build Me? And where is the place of My rest?Daniel 2:44-46
"And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure." Then King Nebuchadnezzar fell on his face, prostrate.Acts 7:48
However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:
Hebrews 9:24
For Christ did not enter a man-made copy of the true sanctuary, but He entered heaven itself, now to appear on our behalf in the presence of God.
With regard to your other postulates, I'll defer to the contextual numbers embedded in the quote from Scripture above for reference, rather that repeat the verses.Passage under scrutiny 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 split for contextual purposes said:Now,
- concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way.
- For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
- Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
- And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
- The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
NOT! Ezekiel's temple will be the Millennial Reign Temple.Christians already know the 3rd Temple will be for the coming of the Anti-Christ, it is really amazing how this is all set up as it was engineered to happen (About the prophecy coming true not the coming of the Anti-Christ.) But those outside of Christianity may not know of this, hopefully, they will have Bibles around. The Third Temple for Judaism is in preparation for the coming of the Rabbinic Messiah (The Anti-Christ).
There is no priesthood, the Romans destroyed the records of the priesthood along with the 2nd temple in 70AD, and any existing record has disappeared. Not one can prove they are a priest descendant from Aaron. When Ezra had the building for the 2nd temple, if a priest could not provide proof of his ancestry from the tribe of Levi they were not allowed in the temple. And there isn't one person no matter who they are, that can prove their priesthood. So no priesthood, no temple.
In Jerimiah CHP3
The Prophet Jerimiah proclaimed that at the coming of the New Covenant, that the temple would no longer be needed (discontinued). Ezekial temple is figurative for the Church.
The only true temple is the Church, and there is no salvation apart from Jesus Christ.
so any hopes and plans for the Third Temple for those outside of Christianity self-destructed. Blood Atonement for Sins happened at the Cross.
In 2 Thes. 2, Paul was making reference to the brick and mortar temple the Jews will soon build, NOT to the human spirits of believers. It is the same temple John was told to measure.Hi Sir,
I do agree with your 2nd point, wholeheartedly. Paul indeed reiterated the shared apostolic understanding that Christ is the true temple of His Church. Many passages, of course, support this. It is probably worthwhile to list them empirically; for one, the Lord, Jesus, Himself gave His Disciples the understanding of the true Temple.
John 2:19-22
Our Lord also taught His disciples the concept of His Body and the union of love between Him and those who love and trust in Him as both Lord and Savior.
- Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
- Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?"
- But He (Jesus) was speaking of the temple of His body.
- Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.
Matthew 25:40-41
John also, speaking prophetically, shares this promise from Christ
- “And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, in as much as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
- Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, in as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’
Revelation 3:12
Peter, also perfectly comprehends both Christ’s teaching on the Temple, which is not built with human hands. Additionally he teaches with a deep grasp on the spiritual understanding of what the ‘Body of Christ’ is. His passage here illustrates to us that this was a primary teaching of the Church at large and he fuses the context of Christ's temple, not built with human hands, to the stones or members of that temple, namely the body of believers.
- “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
1 Peter 2:4-10
Paul, later also reiterated this apostolic teaching, apprehending, by the grace of God, the same understanding.
Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, "Behold, I lay in Zion a chief cornerstone, elect, precious, and he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”- Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,
- “The stone which the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone,”
- and “a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.”
- They stumble, being disobedient to the Word, to which they also were appointed. But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.
2 Corinthians 5:1
Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is dismantled, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2For in this tent we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling,…1 Corinthians 3:161 Corinthians 6:19
- Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
2 Corinthians 6:16
- Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
Ephesians 2:20
- And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:
- “I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, and they shall be My people.”
Hebrews 3:6
- having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
So, yes I wholeheartedly agree that Paul also professed apostolic orthodox belief and understanding of the Spiritual Temple with Christ as the Chief cornerstone and Lord of the House.
- but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
However, I believe points 1, 3 and 4 that you make are much more speculative, with regard to Biblical exegesis, in my humble opinion.
With regard to your other postulates, I'll defer to the contextual numbers embedded in the quote from Scripture above for reference, rather that repeat the verses.
Anyhow that my two cents worth and hat's about all for now.
- "Paul was referring to an impostor who would situate himself, and arrogate spiritual authority, within the spiritual temple of the believer, collectively the Church."
- Already agreed upon
- The early Church recognized the existing imperial Roman empire as “he who letteth (withholdeth)”, i.e. the restraining influence forestalling the emergence of the man of sin.
- While I can understand how one might draw that as a possible conclusion, I really don't see any empirical evidence of this. Therefore, I'd tend to say this conclusion is speculative. My reason for arguing against it is manifold but perhaps context #4 of the Scripture quote is the most revealing, since it alludes to the Lord's coming not to institution of Popes. The sword of His mouth also follows Revelation 19:21 which speaks in context with Christ's return. So this is end time, not reformation time, which we know not the day nor the hour of. Surely in every generation we have had to deal with tyrants and men who are shadow of that man of perdition, however, it readily appears Paul is talking about, 'the son of perdition' and not his shadowy minions and false prophets that have preceded him. Revelation 19:21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse.
Paul's inspired prescience saw fulfillment in the Roman papacy, which emerged from the dissolution of the imperial Roman empire, which claimed ultimate and complete spiritual authority within the Church, and which ultimately apostasized into the man of sin claiming to be "God on the earth".- I understand this is one of those interpretive theories from Revelation that have held long standing sway with some over the last 4 centuries or so but, on the heels of my answer to hypothesis #3 above, I believe IMHO that is an incorrect alignment.
- Certainly we see no evidence of it in the first 1500 years of Christ's Church, and the notion that Christ had no disciples back then, save the Apostles themselves, does a grave injustice to the work of the Holy Spirit; who quickens us in every generation to Christ.
- We see evidence of apostacy in the early Gnostic, as well as syncretism of other forms of Pagan religions, and lastly the influence of secular governments which attempted to merge and marry secular power with the Church. But we also have empirical evidence of many Christians who wrote numerous and lengthy apologetics against this as well as witnesses and martyrs that spoke out against such apostasies. The Lord always leaves a remnant of his people on the front lines .No matter how dark the days may become He is still the Lord of every age.
In Christ, Patrick
Sorry, but the new temple in Jerusalem will have no bearing on the timing of the rapture. God is waiting for the final martyr of the church age.I say hurry up & build it so we can go home!!
References please!NOT! Ezekiel's temple will be the Millennial Reign Temple.
You are thinking church age, but God thinks outside of that box. The Jews that go into the millennial reign of Christ will not be a part of the church. Hold your horses! They STILL enter through Jesus Christ. They just will not believe in Him until after the church has been raptured.
Hosea 3 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They shall fear the LORD and His goodness in the latter days.
This prophecy links the return of the kingdom and even David who is also promised to return in Jer and Eze with the at the same time the sanctuary (temple) is also returned after many days without either king or sanctuary. You are right jesus did predict the destruction of the Temple but also said Jerusalem shall be trampled by the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles had ended. Jesus warned Daniels abomination of desolation was a future event. Rev has the beast given authority of the dragon for 42 months at which time the false prophet requires the mark of the beast and the worship of the image of the beast. 42 months would be the middle of the week. 2 Thes 2 speaks of the coming of the LORD not occurring until the man of sin is revealed. He is clearly identified and called the son of perdition and like the best in Rev is not destroyed until the coming of the LORD. This cannot have been Nero.
here is the prophecy Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[fn] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin[fn] is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[fn] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. NOTE: he must declare himself to be some sort of God and make great blasphemy. This is again matching Rev 13 adn Dan 7 the one speaking pompous words. Look here how and when the lawless one is destroyed. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[fn] who now restrains will do so until He[fn] is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Rev 20 and Dan 7 both show great persecution for 3 1/2 years by one who is destroyed at the 2nd coming. If these prophecies are not literal then why would every aspect of the literal interpretation be lined up with momentum and specific directions heading in the expected timeline of events?
Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7
"6. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often, Judas assembled the people together, and told them, that after these many victories which God had given them, they ought to go up to Jerusalem, and purify the temple, and offer the appointed sacrifices. But as soon as he, with the whole multitude, was come to Jerusalem, and found the temple deserted, and its gates burnt down, and plants growing in the temple of their own accord, on account of its desertion, he and those that were with him began to lament, and were quite confounded at the sight of the temple; so he chose out some of his soldiers, and gave them order to fight against those guards that were in the citadel, until he should have purified the temple. When therefore he had carefully purged it, and had brought in new vessels, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of incense], which were made of gold, he hung up the veils at the gates, and added doors to them. He also took down the altar [of burnt-offering], and built a new one of stones that he gathered together, and not of such as were hewn with iron tools. So on the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, which the Macedonians call Apeliens, they lighted the lamps that were on the candlestick, and offered incense upon the altar [of incense], and laid the loaves upon the table [of shew-bread], and offered burnt-offerings upon the new altar [of burnt-offering]. Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].
7. Now Judas celebrated the festival of the restoration of the sacrifices of the temple for eight days, and omitted no sort of pleasures thereon; but he feasted them upon very rich and splendid sacrifices; and he honored God, and delighted them by hymns and psalms. Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when, after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it Lights. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to that festival. Judas also rebuilt the walls round about the city, and reared towers of great height against the incursions of enemies, and set guards therein. He also fortified the city Bethsura, that it might serve as a citadel against any distresses that might come from our enemies. "
Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
John 10:22 is a reference to the celebration of Hanukkah each year by the Jews of Jesus time.
The Book of Matthew was addressed mainly to a Jewish audience. Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD. Not only did Antiochus desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The temple sacrifices would also stop in 70 AD, due to the destruction of the temple. Based on John 10:22, the Jews were well aware of this historical fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Luke’s Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.
Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly parallel accounts, because we have the exact same warning to flee from Judea to the mountains in the second verse of each Gospel.
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Why would God spend page after page, chapter after chapter, speaking of a temple that will never exist? He would not! What is the time frame of Ezekiel 38 and 39? I am convinced this is another look at the battle of Armageddon. And shortly after that battle, the Millennial reign will begin. John is told to measure the new temple and the worshipers inside that temple. Make no mistake, it will be a brick and mortar building. Will it be Ezekiel's temple? Perhaps it will be a part of it. Perhaps not. The bible does not tell us.References please!
Oh really? As far as I can tell the Dome of the Rock is still on the Temple Mount.
You have lost sight of the blessed hope.
I never stated the 3rd (physical temple) wouldn't be built. I think you need to read the post a little more thoroughly sir. What I said is that the true temple is the Body of Christ, and not brick and mortar, and I state that just as Jesus did. However I do believe the shadow symbol of the true temple will be rebuilt, and that is in keeping with end time prophecy.In 2 Thes. 2, Paul was making reference to the brick and mortar temple the Jews will soon build, NOT to the human spirits of believers. It is the same temple John was told to measure.
Well, most of the most passionate allies of Israel are Evangelicals who believe in that kind of stuff, so there is still influence from themYou make it sound like the American alliance with Israel is based on the absurd notion of Rapture. It is not and never has been. Certainly the status of Israel as the only democracy in the Middle East is one major reason Americans sympathize with Israel. Second, Israel is largely a nation of immigrants, something that is also true of the US. Third, the State of Israel is seen as a haven for Jews, certainly important given the enormous persecutions they have been through in the past.
President Harry Truman chose to recognize Israel even as they fought for their independence. I'm not sure Harry Truman had ever heard of "Rapture."
One problem, that Jewish temple would not be "the temple of God".You are missing the point. Jesus said that when you see these things begin to happen - then look up your redemption draws near.
That the Jews are getting closer to rebuilding their temple, which the abomination of desolation will be placed - that is a sign for us to look up, our redemption draws near.
Our redemption is the rapture.
I was liking your comment until you mentioned "ornate Catholic building".The scary thing about this is how many Christians beleive it’s part of Bible prophecy. Some Jewish people may build a temple but it will be nothing more in the eyes of God than a Mormon Temple, a Masonic lodge, an ornate Catholic Church building. The only danger in it that would arouse the ire of the almighty is if millions of Christians get further into the end times delusions than they already are. And no, there will be no political figure called the anti-Chris that takes over the world. Period. Temple or no temple. People are making themselves out to be false prophets with all this garbage and Beleivers everywhere have been robbed of a scriptural vision for the future because of it.
It’s about time people started to learn once more about the 100s of chapters of Bible prophecy regarding this age of promise we now live in. So they can labor with God in his long term plans for the earth instead of against those plans. Prophecy like this:
How The Nations Are Blessed
I have heard some say Luke 21 is showing the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad while Matt 24 and Mar 13 are for a future Jerusalem/Temple.that would be the AoD?
Such already happened several times over in 70 AD, with both Jewish zealots and Roman legions profaning the temple grounds
Luke doesn't mention the AoD but appears to describe it in Luke 21.Dave Watchman said: ↑
That means Matthew 24 is not the same thing as Luke 21. Luke 21 was inside the Temple in the morning. Jesus was sitting down inside a place called the "women's" court. He had to "look up' to see the poor old widow put money in the treasury which was located around the outside perimeter of that court.
- The early Church recognized the existing imperial Roman empire as “he who letteth (withholdeth)”, i.e. the restraining influence forestalling the emergence of the man of sin.
- While I can understand how one might draw that as a possible conclusion, I really don't see any empirical evidence of this. Therefore, I'd tend to say this conclusion is speculative. My reason for arguing against it is manifold but perhaps context #4 of the Scripture quote is the most revealing, since it alludes to the Lord's coming and not to institution of Roman Popes. The sword of His mouth also follows Revelation 19:21 , which speaks in contextually to the return of Christ. So this is obviously end times that Paul speaks of and not post Constantine time, nor reformation time. With respect to the end time we so not know the day nor the hour thereof. Surely in every generation we have had to deal with tyrants and men who are shadow of that man of perdition, however, it readily appears Paul is talking about, 'the son of perdition' and not his shadowy minions and false prophets that have preceded him. Revelation 19:21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse.
- Paul's inspired prescience saw fulfillment in the Roman papacy, which emerged from the dissolution of the imperial Roman empire, which claimed ultimate and complete spiritual authority within the Church, and which ultimately apostasized into the man of sin claiming to be "God on the earth".
- I understand this is one of those interpretive theories from Revelation that have held long standing sway with some over the last 4 centuries or so but, on the heels of my answer to hypothesis #3 above, I believe IMHO that is an incorrect alignment.
- Certainly we see no evidence of it in the first 1500 years of Christ's Church, and the notion that Christ had no disciples back then, save the Apostles themselves, does a grave injustice to the work of the Holy Spirit; who quickens us in every generation to Christ.
- We do see evidence of apostacies in the early Gnostic, as well as syncretism of other forms of Pagan religions, and lastly the apostic influences of secular governments attempting to create an unholy marriage between secular power and the Church; in order to merge and control their power base.
- But we also have a great deal of empirical evidences, comprised by many Christians, who wrote numerous and lengthy apologetics against these incursions; as well as a host of witnesses and martyrs that spoke out against such apostasies and were silenced.
- So the Lord always leaves a remnant of his people on the front lines, just as he did in Elijah's time 1 Kings 19:18 . No matter how dark the days may become He is still the Lord of every age.
I guess that would be me. I am 68 yrs old, so it shouldn't be too long of a waitSorry, but the new temple in Jerusalem will have no bearing on the timing of the rapture. God is waiting for the final martyr of the church age.
David, that's not the thing to argue over. For likewise, the Jews will embrace someone who God did not send to be their King of Israel - i.e. the messiah - but he will not be the messiah.One problem, that Jewish temple would not be "the temple of God".
This thread isn't about the rapture, and the building of a third temple is a reality that is occuring.
Other than that the third temple is a prophecy in your Bible.
End-Time Prophecy: Why is the Third Temple so Important? | Messianic Bible
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