That's not in Scripture!!!!!

[Preachers12]

Brethren in Christ, God give you Peace.

Do you know how many times and where (citation) Scripture (OT) is explicitly quoted or referred to in the Gospels that we have no record of in our OT? That is, where it is recorded in the Gospel(s) that something is from Scripture, but that it is not Scripture which we have a record of?

God Bless,
P12

 

[geocajun]

My Favorite is Matthew 23:2 where Jesus supports as authoritatve, the Jewish tradition of the "Chair of Moses" which has no OT foundation.

 

[KennySe]

I like where Paul writes that the rock that followed the Israelites in the desert was Jesus.

 

[prodromos]

Off the top of my head,

2 Timothy 3:8
Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

John.

 

[Bastoune]

Matthew 2:23 is another one:

So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets: "He will be called a Nazarene."

Nowhere does the OT record the fact that Jesus would be from Nazareth. But there's sort of a play on words with "Nazarene," "Nazoreen" and the Hebrew for an OT messianic title "the branch" or Nazirite (Is 4:2, 11:1; Jer 23:5; 33:15; Zech 3:8; 6:12). I have a better commentary in my Bible at home and will update soon.

 

[Bastoune]

It gets very interesting when we read John 19:19 which is: 'Pilate also wrote an inscription and put it on the cross. It was written, 'Jesus the Nazarene, the King of the Jews.' It can equally be translated like this: 'Jesus My Branch, the King of the Jews.'

In Hebrew, the word "branch" is netzer, actually only three consonantal letters: NZR. Note that the town NaZaReth contains the same three primary letters (plus an ending often attached to nouns). In the Aramaic form of Nazareth, (Aramaic was the common language spoken by most Israelites after the exile; some have suggested that the entire book of Matthew was originally written in Aramaic rather than Greek), it comes very close in sound to the Hebrew word for "branch."


There’s an interesting commentary on “spoken prophecy” on http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/spoken_written.html



For many, this verse is a cause of trouble since the SPOKEN prophecy that the Messiah would be called a Nazarene can nowhere be found written in the Old Testament. To solve this "difficulty", a connection is sometimes assumed (see ftn.1) between the term "Nazarene" and the Hebrew word "netser" that means "branch". Apart from the fact that this connection is no more than a mere supposition, the inconsistency of this view is also shown in that while Matthew 2:23 says that the prophecy was uttered by "the prophets" i.e. by a plural number of people, the word "netser" was used for Christ only by Isaiah (Isaiah 11:1, see ftn.2)).

However, we believe that whole "problem" is not but a problem CREATED by the fact that we don't pay attention to what we read. Really, while the Scripture says that the prophecy was SPOKEN [Greek: "to rethen" meaning "that which was spoken"] by the prophets, what we understand is that the prophecy was WRITTEN [Greek: "o gegraptai" meaning "that which stands written"] by the prophets. However, when the text says SPOKEN means SPOKEN. Some prophecies were spoken and not written. Some others were not spoken but only written, while some others were both spoken and written. When we read a quotation that says "as it is written", we will find it 100% in the Scripture, since it is guaranteed that it is WRITTEN. However, when what is quoted is said that it was simply SPOKEN, then we may find it written but we may also not find it written. The Word does not guarantee that it was written. What it guarantees is that it was SPOKEN.

There are fifteen quotations in the Bible for which we are told that they were SPOKEN (see ftn.3). To see whether they were both spoken and written, or whether they were only spoken, we have to search the Scripture to see if we can find them. A search like this shows that all the prophecies that were spoken were also written, APART from two of them. These are:

i) the prophecy that Jesus will be called a Nazarene. The fulfillment of this prophecy is given in Matthew 2:23. This prophecy was only SPOKEN by the prophets and it was latter written down by Matthew. This is also a form of the figure of speech "hysteresis" or "subsequent narration". By this figure "the Holy Spirit, in later and subsequent Scriptures, adds supplementary details which were not given in the history itself; and sometimes even historical facts, of which no mention had before been made (see ftn.4)". One of these facts of which no mention was made before is the prophecy that the Messiah would be called a Nazarene. This prophecy was SPOKEN by plural number of prophets. It was not written by them but by Matthew who made it known together with its fulfillment.

ii) Apart from Matthew 2:23, another passage that for similar reasons is a stumbling block for many, is Matthew 27:9-10:

"Then was fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the value of him who was priced, whom they of the children of Israel priced and gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord directed me"

The problem that many have with this passage is that this quotation cannot be found anywhere in the book of Jeremiah (see ftn.5). To "solve" this difficulty, it has been suggested that Matthew 27:9-10 is actually a quotation from Zechariah 11:12-13 on the base that both passages speak for "thirty pieces of silver".

Apart from the great differences between these two passages, the inconsistencies of this view are made clear by the fact that God in Matthew 27:9-10 says that the prophecy was SPOKEN BY JEREMIAH. If these verses were a quotation from Zechariah, God instead of Jeremiah, would have told us Zechariah. In other words, instead of telling us "Then was fulfilled what was SPOKEN by JEREMIAH" He would have told us "Then was fulfilled what was WRITTEN by ZECHARIAH". We believe that when God says Jeremiah He means Jeremiah and therefore no one has the right to say that He actually means Zechariah.

However, again the problem is not but a CREATED problem. And it is created because we don't pay attention to what we read. The text does not say that the prophecy was WRITTEN but that it was SPOKEN. Some prophecies were only written and not spoken. Some others were both written and spoken while some others were only spoken and not written. The prophecy quoted in Matthew 27:9-10 was SPOKEN but it was NOT WRITTEN. Matthew by the figure of speech "hysteresis" or "subsequent narration" informs us about this prophecy long after it was SPOKEN.

 

[Preachers12]

Brethren in Christ, God give you Peace.

Thanks for all the wonderful discussion! Someone had asked earlier if this had something to do with the Apocrypha. It does not. I personally spend much time meditating on the life of Jesus, in order that by coming to know Him better, I might be better able to imitate Him. This thought came up in one of my meditations and I wanted to explore it with you at CF so that you too may join me in getting to know our Lord and His Word better. Had it been my intention to make some point about the Apocrypha, I would have posed a different question/thought.

As it is, the answer(s) to this question, in my opinion, has negative implications for those believing in sola Scriptura (non-Catholics) AND for those believing (Catholics) that the Septuagint (as we now have it in the Catholic Bible) was the Scripture used by Jesus, His apostles and disciples and everywhere else in the region (Gentiles, Sadduccees and Samaritans excepted, of course). But I am not interested in discussing how either of those implications affects those various arguments. I am interested in getting more familiar with the Word of God. If anyone wants to explore those implications, please don’t do it here.

Here are the verses so far offered in response to the OP: Mt 2:23; Mt 27:9-10; Jn 18:9 and; Lk 1:68-70.

Mt 2:23 is clearly not in Scripture. What Matthew is referring to, we will not know until we join him.

Mt:27:9-10 is not in Jeremiah directly, though it is written as a quote from Jeremiah. It has some similarities with Jeremiah 18: 2-3 and Jeremiah 32: 6-15. Part of it is also found in Zechariah 11:12-13. I think it is safe to say on this one that it, like Mt 2:23, is something outside of our known Scripture.

Jn 18:9 is related to Jesus’ prayer in Jn 17:12. It doesn’t claim to come from the OT.

Lk 1:68-70 is a “new” prophesy by Zechariah, the father of John the Baptist. While it has parts that are drawn from Scripture, because it is said to be Zechariah’s prophesy, it also doesn’t claim to come from the OT.

So far, I think that we have found two that fit the OP.

Consider too Jn 5:46-47. Does anyone know what specific writing of Moses Jesus is talking about? I can almost see the Pharisees that He was speaking too collaborating and pouring through Scripture all night after Jesus told them this, trying to figure out what He was talking about! You can bet they did just that!

God Bless,
P12 PS - This discussion is also in PRE if you want to check it out.

 

[geocajun]

I was reading Patrick Madrid's book Why is that in Tradition when I read a short list of extra-biblical tradition references so I will recreate the short list here: (Note I am editing it heavily to save myself from typing the chapter)

Matthew 2:23 - "He Shall Be Called a 'Nazarene'"
"Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, St. Matthew was invoking an authoritative oral tradition about a prophesy that was fulfilled in Christ. Furthermore, it seems clear that he was placing this particular oral Tradition on par with the written Traditions (i.e Old Testament writings), which he also quotes and identifies to show their fulfillment in Christ.

Matthew 23:2 - "The 'Chair' of Moses
"This authority symbol, the chair of Moses, is nowhere mentioned in the Old Testament, yet Christ clearly regarded it as binding tradition, or else he would not have made this startling statement. The chair of Moses was an Old Testament-era Tradition that was handed down orally, not through Scripture.

1 Corinthians 10:4 - The 'Rock' That Followed the Israelites
"By saying "the rock that followed them in the desert was Christ," St. paul here invoked another oral Tradition that is nowhere recorded in the Old Testament.
All we can know from what is recorded there (Ex 17:1-7, Num 20:2-13) is that Moses struck a rock with his staff and the rock poured forth water.
No mention is made of the rock moving, much less following the Israelites.
What's more, St. paul invokes this oral tradition as a way to authoritatively interpret Scripture. This is a good example of how it is that oral Tradition is shown forth as the Church's lived interpretation of Scripture, the written portion of the deposit of faith.

2 Timothy 3:8 - Pharoah's Court Magicians
Here S.t Paul mentions, almost offhandedly, that "Janes and Jambres" were the names of the two magicians in Pharoah's court when Moses changed his staff into a snake. But where did St. Paul come by this information? Not in Scripture, for their names are nowhere recorded. But apparently this too had been preserved in some oral tradition that St. Paul referred to in his letter.

Jude 9 - S.t Michael the Archangel versus the Devil
"This encounter between St. Michael the Archangel and Satan is also not mentioned in the Old Testament. It was handed on through oral Tradition, and St. Jude obviously was familiar with it, as we can assume his readers were also.

 

[Christy4Christ]

Can I be honest with everyone about my opinion on this matter? I know I am going to sound alot like a conspiracy theorist but I guess it cannot be helped.

Has anyone ever really thought about this in that just MAYBE we don't have everything that was written?

Consider who put the OT canon together and then ask yourself if there were not other books that were either ommited or never canonized.

This is just sort of a rhetorical question and I don't expect anyone to answer it.

Just call it food for thought

 

[pmarquette]

My Favorite is Matthew 23:2 where Jesus supports as authoritatve, the Jewish tradition of the "Chair of Moses" which has no OT foundation.

place of leadership , judgement , Positional Authority , God - through -Moses
Exd 30:6 And thou shalt put it before the vail that [is] by the ark of the testimony, before the mercy seat that [is] over the testimony, where I will meet with thee.


Lev 16:2 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy [place] within the vail before the mercy seat, which [is] upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.
Exd 18:13 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses sat to judge the people: and the people stood by Moses from the morning unto the evening.


Exd 18:22 And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, [that] every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear [the burden] with thee.

 

[Polycarp1]

Jude 9 references "The Assumption of Moses" and Jude 14-15 references "The Book of Enoch" -- which are not regarded as Scriptural anywhere but among the Ethiopian Copts.

 

[Christy4Christ]

Thank you Polycarp thats great info

 

[pmarquette]

I like where Paul writes that the rock that followed the Israelites in the desert was Jesus.

the rock from whence the water ( grace of god .... speak to v's smite )
the rock of ages --- God the father
the rock the mountain of God
jesus the rock from whence the blessings of the father flow
Ezekiel 37 , Ezekiel 47
the pillare of fire that led and warmed the people or the pillar of cloud that led and shaded the people ....
Num 20:8 Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.
Exd 17:6 Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.

Exd 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, [there is] a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:

 

[geocajun]

the rock from whence the water ( grace of god .... speak to v's smite )
the rock of ages --- God the father
the rock the mountain of God
jesus the rock from whence the blessings of the father flow
Ezekiel 37 , Ezekiel 47
the pillare of fire that led and warmed the people or the pillar of cloud that led and shaded the people ....
Num 20:8 Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.
Exd 17:6 Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.

Exd 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, [there is] a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:

you failed to show where it says the rock followed the israelites (1 Corinthians 10:4) - nice try though!

 

[Hoonbaba]

Sawn Asunder?

Hebrews 11:37 (KJV) - They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

There's no reference in the OT of people being sawn asunder. But there is a nonbiblical reference in Jewish tradition about Isaiah being sawn asunder.

-Jason

 

[Hoonbaba]

you failed to show where it says the rock followed the israelites (1 Corinthians 10:4) - nice try though!

...and Ex 17:6 doesn't explicitly say the rock is Christ. Rather, I suppose someone could claim that apostle Paul made it up on his own.

-Jason