Thankfully, a response to 'Purpose'!

[McWilliams]

Has anyone read this yet? Looks like a most valid rebuttal.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1414106637/ref=pd_rvi_gw_1/103-0693241-2688639?ie=UTF8

 

[calmcoolandelected]

No, haven't read this one (or PDL, for that matter). I have thought about reading PDL just because of all the hoopla surrounding it but I have several large stacks of books to be read already. Maybe I'll see if the library has both of them...

CC&E

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

Has anyone read this yet? Looks like a most valid rebuttal.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1414106637/ref=pd_rvi_gw_1/103-0693241-2688639?ie=UTF8

There are lots of valid criticisms of Rick Warren's works (The Purpose Driven Church, The Purpose Driven Life). The real problem is separating the 'wheat from the chaff'. Many criticism are certainly not legitimate. Some of those invalid criticisms border on the absurd to the point where they may actually help Warren.

As in all things, discernment in a neccessity.

 

[McWilliams]

As you say, much has been written. I guess what I found of interest in reading the reviews is that this book was written with respect, kindly, yet well documented and well referenced! I have read about the book, but have not read the book. Because there has been so much confusion about all of this it could be good to know the valid points of objection from a scriptural standpoint, rather than a biased attack. I found it interesting that this is a first book for this author; rather a brave undertaking of a giant ongoing present cultural phenomenon! As one reviewer stated, David vs Goliath.

 

[GrinningDwarf]

Sounds like a book worth checking out. I was impressed with the balance exhibited in the first review, balancing comments like

Yet the theme of the book is clearly what he sees wrong with Warren's approach to evangelism, worship and ministry. He believes that Warren is taking Christianity down a dangerous road. He pictures Warren as the most visible example of what is wrong with mainstream evangelical Christianity, namely its neglect of doctrinal teaching, its focus on self-experience, its confusion of entertainment for worship, and its deliberate remodeling of the gospel to make it palatable to seekers.

with comments like

More Than a Purpose is a respectful, balanced, and well-documented examination of Warren's book, The Purpose Driven Life. In the Introduction Davis describes his book not as an attack on Warren, but as "an exhortation to a brother. My goal is not to tear down Warren or his ministry, but to build up the body of Christ." (p. xv) Several times Davis even defends Warren against his more severe critics, whom he believes, go too far when they say that Warren is not a Christian.

and

His writing demonstrates a balanced approach. He critiques the shortcomings of Warren's writings, but he also goes out of his way to praise those things that Warren gets right. He never questions the sincerity of Warren's faith. He repeatedly praises Warren's passion for evangelism. For example on page 21 he says, "Such a passion is deserving of great praise. Personally I take off my shoes in the presence of any man who makes that the dominant theme of his life."

I also thought it was revealing that the first, respectful reviewer (who gave More Than a Purpose 5 stars) also included this observation about More Than a Purpose

He thoroughly documents each point he makes. In the Endnotes there are over 300 references from over 75 different sources! This is undoubtedly because he knew that PDL defenders would seek to discredit his research. People may disagree with Davis, but no one who has read the book can honestly say that he did not do his homework!

while the very next reviewer (who only gives MtaP 1 star) says

A comprehensive review of Warren's preaching and teaching would reveal that Rick's message is not watered down or anything less than the full council of Scripture. Mr. Davis simply has not done his homework on these issues.

 

[AndOne]

I read the PDL a few years ago - my wife and I went through it together with our "home" group from church. I have read many of the criticisms and have to agree that most are unwarranted.

My only two "issues" with the book were that it was "milk" and not "meat" - and it tends to focus on "man" being God's primary focus verses "God" being man's primary focus.

 

[McWilliams]

Well, dont you think scripture declares the dangers of a shallow, man centered 'gospel'?

Hebrews 5:11-14
Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are of dull hearing.
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God, and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil!

Times come in our life, and in our culture when a firm knowledge of the word is essential! It is so important to study to show ourselves approved unto God! Sitting under a shallow, man centered, kindergarten presentation in no way prepares souls to battle the wiles of Satan or those presented daily when we need to grow in Christ, know His word well and be able to provide strength to others.

What one benefit is gained from such a 'gospel', other that false sense of assurance, superficial and temporary peace.
Lasting peace is found only in deep knowledge of God and HIs word!

Thou will keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on thee; because he trusteth in thee. Isaiah 26:3

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge! Hosea 4:6

Just today there is a 'sermon' by the 'pastor' of a great mega church nearby. He is 'preaching' on weight loss methods and how to believe in your self, that you can accomplish this goal! This is heresy and ministers who abort their responsibility to preach God's word and His gospel will be held accountable for their own sinfulness and for leading others astray! It is shallow fare that does not equip those in desperate need for eternity!

 

[AndOne]

Well - to Rick Warren's credit his book isn't as shallow as laying out the latest diet plan nor is it what I would call a self-help book either. I don't believe it is "man-centered" either. His priorities are just backwards in my opinion.

Granted - I wouldn't recommend it to anyone to read - but if someone told me they were reading it I wouldn't get flustered by that...

 

[McWilliams]

No, not flustered, but just very anxious to put in their hands a little Bunyan, Manton, Ryle, Lloyd-Jones and such, rather than see them feast on lite fare that offers no substance!

 

[GrinningDwarf]

PDL is milk, to be sure, but the first chapter is titled 'It All Starts With God', and the very first sentence in the book is "It's not about you." It then goes on to say in the next paragraph

The search for the purpose of life has puzzled people for thousands of years. That's because we typically begin at the wrong starting point - ourselves. We ask self-centered questions like What do I want to be? What should I do with my life? What are my goals, my ambitions, my dreams for my future? But focusing on ourselves will never reveal our life's purpose.

My problem with PDL lies in two areas. The minor problem is that, yes, it is a 'milk' book...but then again, you have to start somewhere with people.

My major issue is with pastors and teachers who have allowed PDL to remain shallow and just another self-help book...to the contrary of PDLs intent.

I've been over this with our pastor. He says "Yes, but the congregation can't handle meat yet. I'm still having to give them God's word in small bites." My reply was "I know they still want the baby food, but we're obligated as teachers and preachers to give them what they need. There are people in the pews who have been Chrisitans for six years now and still insist on spiritual baby food. These aren't people that have some sort of developmental disability, or who are naturally slow. These are people who are content to only consider the things of God on Sunday mornings and then put it back on the shelf the rest of the week. We need to challenge them and put the meat before them."

That's why around PDL, I also taught Galatians, and have been hitting hard on Romans. The way I see it, PDL is a tool. OK...it's not as useful a tool as Berkhoff's Systematic Theology. But it is available as a tool in the toolbox, and if the pastor/teacher decides to use it, it's up to the pastor/teacher to use it to it's best advantage.

 

[McWilliams]

It wouldnt be so bad as an elementary 'tool' but as you said and as we know that isnt the case! People are lulled to 'sleep', rather that being taught the fundamentals of scripture! The blble is clear on a pastors responsibility to teach the word of God. Paul rebuked the Corinthians for remaining with 'milk' and not going on in their growth and sanctification as we are all meant to do. We dont buy fire insurance! We undertake a journey to draw closer to God, to know Him and His word better every day! There is no way that takes place in the PDL circles, is there?
I commend you GD, for that study you're doing on Romans and also for making the best of being asked to do the study of PDL by bringing in much scriptural teaching to show the truth!
My thoughts are that PDL is a shallow and dangerous diversion from God's word! In reading the puritans they draw you in to a microscopic view of God's word and of Himself! What teaching could possibly be better?

 

[GrinningDwarf]

In reading the puritans they draw you in to a microscopic view of God's word and of Himself! What teaching could possibly be better?

Well....I can't argue with you there!!